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Old 04-07-2011   #21
powda
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Default Re: Maiocco: Texans #14 in 5-year draft rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by TEXANRED View Post
Lets compare:

Casserly's last draft:
Mario Williams Pro bowler, could be a HOF'er
DeMeco Ryans Pro bowler, the Rock in the middle
Charles Spencer Victimized by Ron Dayne running for a Hotdog
Eric Winston Should be a pro-bowler, Rock at RT
Owen Danials Pro bowler, One of the top TE's in the league when healthy
Wali Lundy 6th round pick
David Anderson Solid #4 Receiver, future Texans Radio announcer


Dip, er, Rick Smith's draft:

2007:
Okoye - bust
Jones - inconsistent, can't hold his liquor, mama's boy
Bennet - bust
Harrison - who?
Frye - who?
Studdard - Parties naked with VY
Diles - has achieved Greenwood stature

2008:
Duane Brown - I would rate him the last 1/3 of the 32 starting LT
Molden - Never could stay healthy
Slaton - one and done
Adibi - average LB at best
Okam - Who?
Barber - The best SS we have ever drafted.
Brink - Who?

2009:
Cushing - Above average, had good 1st year, 2nd started suspended and moved to MLB then back again
Barwin - Situational, project, rehab, who know's
Caldwell - ???????
Quin - Our best CB cost us 3 games last year
Hill - Hurt
Casey - older, getting older, can't seem to sniff the field
McCain - He's really fast which means he F's up twice as fast as anyone else on the team
Nolan - The best FS we have ever drafted

2010:
Jackson - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, fall down. Faggins thinks this guy sucks
Tate - Hurt, anyone else seeing a trend?
Mitchell - Who?
Sharpton - Depth
Graham - Who?
McManis - A lesser McCain
Smith - Who?
Holliday - Anderson's replacement
Dickerson - Who?

It took Casserly 5 drafts to get it right so this is your chance Rick.
Based off this list Molden is the worst pick. At least Spencer started as does Okoye. Hill is fast on his heels however and Molden only gets the nod cause hes been in the league longer. Adibi should be in the conversation as well. What a waste of 3's.
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Old 04-07-2011   #22
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Default Re: Maiocco: Texans #14 in 5-year draft rankings

Alex Brink was our worst pick evar
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Old 04-07-2011   #23
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Default Re: Maiocco: Texans #14 in 5-year draft rankings

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Originally Posted by Norg View Post
Alex Brink was our worst pick evar
brink was a 7th round pick and expected to be a 3rd stringer at best. 3rd round picks are expected to turn into starters eventually. If you miss on a 7 no one blinks. If you miss on all of your 3's you end up like the texans.
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Old 04-07-2011   #24
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Default Re: Maiocco: Texans #14 in 5-year draft rankings

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
Kareem Jackson.
all hail Carr Bombed, for his answer is the best TT has ever seen !!!
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Old 04-07-2011   #25
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Default Re: Maiocco: Texans #14 in 5-year draft rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by TEXANRED View Post
Lets compare:

Casserly's last draft:
Mario Williams Pro bowler, could be a HOF'er
DeMeco Ryans Pro bowler, the Rock in the middle
Charles Spencer Victimized by Ron Dayne running for a Hotdog
Eric Winston Should be a pro-bowler, Rock at RT
Owen Danials Pro bowler, One of the top TE's in the league when healthy
Wali Lundy 6th round pick
David Anderson Solid #4 Receiver, future Texans Radio announcer


Dip, er, Rick Smith's draft:

2007:
Okoye - bust
Jones - inconsistent, can't hold his liquor, mama's boy
Bennet - bust
Harrison - who?
Frye - who?
Studdard - Parties naked with VY
Diles - has achieved Greenwood stature

2008:
Duane Brown - I would rate him the last 1/3 of the 32 starting LT
Molden - Never could stay healthy
Slaton - one and done
Adibi - average LB at best
Okam - Who?
Barber - The best SS we have ever drafted.
Brink - Who?

2009:
Cushing - Above average, had good 1st year, 2nd started suspended and moved to MLB then back again
Barwin - Situational, project, rehab, who know's
Caldwell - ???????
Quin - Our best CB cost us 3 games last year
Hill - Hurt
Casey - older, getting older, can't seem to sniff the field
McCain - He's really fast which means he F's up twice as fast as anyone else on the team
Nolan - The best FS we have ever drafted

2010:
Jackson - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, fall down. Faggins thinks this guy sucks
Tate - Hurt, anyone else seeing a trend?
Mitchell - Who?
Sharpton - Depth
Graham - Who?
McManis - A lesser McCain
Smith - Who?
Holliday - Anderson's replacement
Dickerson - Who?

It took Casserly 5 drafts to get it right so this is your chance Rick.
I literally LOLed at some of the comments, but I really think it's too early to tell on the last 2 drafts. There might be a diamond or two in the rough there.
Nolan, Sharpton and Barwin come to mind.
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Old 04-16-2011   #26
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Default Re: Maiocco: Texans #14 in 5-year draft rankings

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Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
the metrics he uses in this case, still on the active roster, may be more meaningless for Texans because they never see the field but yet remain on the roster for god knows whatever reason? see Xavier Adibi, Anthony Hill, Antwaun Molden, Kasey Studdard & Dominique Barber. remove those underachievers & the Texans would fall into the bottom half where they belong.
In the paper copy of Sporting News (4/11/11) there were these interesting 5 year numbers in addition to what has been discussed

Total Picks: 38
Total Pro-bowlers: 4
Starters: 10
Back-Ups : 21 (highest number in the NFL)
Other teams: 2 (lowest number in the NFL)
Out of the NFL : 5
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Old 04-17-2011   #27
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Default Re: Maiocco: Texans #14 in 5-year draft rankings

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Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan View Post
In the paper copy of Sporting News (4/11/11) there were these interesting 5 year numbers in addition to what has been discussed

Total Picks: 38
Total Pro-bowlers: 4
Starters: 10
Back-Ups : 21 (highest number in the NFL)
Other teams: 2 (lowest number in the NFL)
Out of the NFL : 5
It would be interesting to see where the 5 that are out of the NFL were drafted, along with the 2 on other teams. My net connection is too slow here for much research.
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Old 04-17-2011   #28
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Default Re: Maiocco: Texans #14 in 5-year draft rankings

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Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
It would be interesting to see where the 5 that are out of the NFL were drafted, along with the 2 on other teams. My net connection is too slow here for much research.
Five out of the NFL:
Charles Spencer - 3rd round - 2006
Wali Lundy - 6th round - 2006
Brandon Harrison - 5th round - 2007
Brandon Frye - 5th round - 2007
Alex Brink - 7th round - 2008

Two on other teams:
Fred Bennett - 4th round - 2007 (Cincinnati)
Frank Okam - 5th round - 2008 (Tampa Bay)

2011 could be a different story. As many as a dozen players drafted between 2007-2010 could be off the Texans roster. Either on other teams, or out of the league altogether.

Guys in danger:
Okoye - 2007
Jones - 2007
Studdard - 2007
Diles - 2007
Molden - 2008
Slaton - 2008
Adibi - 2008
Barber - 2008
Hill - 2009
McCain - 2009
Holliday - 2010
Dickerson - 2010
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Old 04-17-2011   #29
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Default Re: Maiocco: Texans #14 in 5-year draft rankings

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
Five out of the NFL:
Charles Spencer - 3rd round - 2006
Wali Lundy - 6th round - 2006
Brandon Harrison - 5th round - 2007
Brandon Frye - 5th round - 2007
Alex Brink - 7th round - 2008

Two on other teams:
Fred Bennett - 4th round - 2007 (Cincinnati)
Frank Okam - 5th round - 2008 (Tampa Bay)

2011 could be a different story. As many as a dozen players drafted between 2007-2010 could be off the Texans roster. Either on other teams, or out of the league altogether.

Guys in danger:
Okoye - 2007
Jones - 2007
Studdard - 2007
Diles - 2007
Molden - 2008
Slaton - 2008
Adibi - 2008
Barber - 2008
Hill - 2009
McCain - 2009
Holliday - 2010
Dickerson - 2010
I can see these guys being in serious trouble making the team, but I don't see the others being THAT much on the bubble with FA being what it is this year. We need the depth with most of them. Besides, some guys are late bloomers.
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Old 04-17-2011   #30
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Default Re: Maiocco: Texans #14 in 5-year draft rankings

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Originally Posted by TEXANRED View Post
2008:
Duane Brown - I would rate him the last 1/3 of the 32 starting LT.

Can someone please explain to me why Duane Brown gets so much hate on this board and why people don't see what he brings to this team? Is it because "the experts" called him a reach on draft day, when he's proven to be anything but? (in a very deep tackle draft going back and reevaluating it, Duane Brown has proven to be one of the top tackles out of that draft) I don't get the criticism here.

You have Eric Winston being rock solid, but put Brown into the bottom 1/3 of the league. Duane Brown is much better than Eric Winston and I like Winston. Duane Brown is closer to the top 1/3 of the league than the bottom of it also. He gets better every season and is absolutely special in the running game if you watch him. He looks like a TE running down field out there and Brown and Smith might be the best left side run blocking duo in the entire league. He's a pretty damn good player.

At worst Duane Brown is a average pass protector and a exceptional run blocker, that puts him higher than bottom third in the league.
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Old 04-17-2011   #31
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Default Re: Maiocco: Texans #14 in 5-year draft rankings

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
Can someone please explain to me why Duane Brown gets so much hate on this board and why people don't see what he brings to this team? Is it because "the experts" called him a reach on draft day, when he's proven to be anything but? (in a very deep tackle draft going back and reevaluating it, Duane Brown has proven to be one of the top tackles out of that draft) I don't get the criticism here.

You have Eric Winston being rock solid, but put Brown into the bottom 1/3 of the league. Duane Brown is much better than Eric Winston and I like Winston. Duane Brown is closer to the top 1/3 of the league than the bottom of it also. He gets better every season and is absolutely special in the running game if you watch him. He looks like a TE running down field out there and Brown and Smith might be the best left side run blocking duo in the entire league. He's a pretty damn good player.

At worst Duane Brown is a average pass protector and a exceptional run blocker, that puts him higher than bottom third in the league.
Brown is tasked with protecting the blind side of the QB every week. He shows some stiffness and lack of mobility at times. The same WOULD and (at times) IS leveled at Winston, but he can hide it a little better by being RT.
Brown has a hard time defending against top tier talent.
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Old 04-17-2011   #32
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Default Re: Maiocco: Texans #14 in 5-year draft rankings

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Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
Brown is tasked with protecting the blind side of the QB every week. He shows some stiffness and lack of mobility at times. The same WOULD and (at times) IS leveled at Winston, but he can hide it a little better by being RT.
Brown has a hard time defending against top tier talent.
Brown has a tough time performing against the small quick guys like Dwight Freeney (who gives everyone fits). He holds his own against the other types. The amount of sacks that Duane Brown has given up over the last couple of seasons isn't very much. People just pile on the guy when he makes one mistake. We got him at the end of the first round and he has more than out performed other tackles drafted ahead of him. He was a good draft pick and I'm glad he's on this team.

Eric Winston has struggled much more in pass protection, hell alot of times he's been frozen and the defender would go right around him, but it's excused because he's a good personality. Duane Brown is the better lineman and that's not a knock against Winston, it is what it is. I just wish Brown would get his due, nobody notices the good things he does for this team...they just want to pile on a few mistakes (the same mistakes Winston makes) and it's not like Schaub's lack of mobility does anyone any favors. I mean you have a undrafted free agent rush for 1,600 yards and most of the big runs come off the left side and nobody gives him credit. Last season Duane Brown was the best LT in this division and one of the better LTs in this conference and I'll take that.
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Old 04-17-2011   #33
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Default Re: Maiocco: Texans #14 in 5-year draft rankings

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
Brown has a tough time performing against the small quick guys like Dwight Freeney (who gives everyone fits). He holds his own against the other types. The amount of sacks that Duane Brown has given up over the last couple of seasons isn't very much. People just pile on the guy when he makes one mistake. We got him at the end of the first round and he has more than out performed other tackles drafted ahead of him. He was a good draft pick and I'm glad he's on this team.

Eric Winston has struggled much more in pass protection, hell alot of times he's been frozen and the defender would go right around him, but it's excused because he's a good personality. Duane Brown is the better lineman and that's not a knock against Winston, it is what it is. I just wish Brown would get his due, nobody notices the good things he does for this team...they just want to pile on a few mistakes (the same mistakes Winston makes) and it's not like Schaub's lack of mobility does anyone any favors. I mean you have a undrafted free agent rush for 1,600 yards and most of the big runs come off the left side and nobody gives him credit. Last season Duane Brown was the best LT in this division and one of the better LTs in this conference and I'll take that.
I mostly agree with that. That's why I specified Lt vs Rt. LT gets much more exposure. I wasn't trying to dog on Brown, just answer a question. I think we pretty much agree on strenghts/weaknesses
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Old 04-17-2011   #34
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Default Re: Maiocco: Texans #14 in 5-year draft rankings

PROFOOTBALLFOCUS surprised me with this very generous evaluation of our OL.

Quote:
Secret Superstar: The Entire Offensive Line, Houston Texans

March 29th, 2011 | Author: Khaled Elsayed


2010 was a case of same old, same old for the Houston Texans. Teasing with talent, but delivering disappointment.

There were, however, some positives to come out of the 2010. We saw Andre Johnson have another great year and Mario Williams continue to impress, but more than anything, we witnessed the emergence of Arian Foster.

The former Tennessee Volunteer led the league in rushing and finished second among running backs in receiving. Yet, in our rankings, he finished third overall and his pure rushing grade was only sixth best. The kind of grade that acknowledges his outstanding performance but wouldn’t earn him one of the seven votes he got for Offensive Player of the Year.

Foster was put in a position to succeed, and sure, he capitalized, but what about those five mammoth maulers who paved the way? We’ve recognized them all in our AFC South Divisional team of the year, and now we’re going to give Texans fans a very special Secret Superstar.

You see it’s not just one guy, but five. The Texans’ Secret Superstars are their entire offensive line.


Lingering Issues

From the time of their formation, the Texans’ problem has been evident – pass protection so bad it left David Carr shell-shocked. With their investment in Matt Schaub, it wasn’t long before the Texans realized they had to keep him upright, lest he go the same way. So Duane Brown was drafted in 2008 to join a line featuring Eric Winston, Chris Myers and others.

To say he had a rough rookie year would be an understatement. Poor with his run blocking, he was beyond dreadful in pass protection, giving up 11 sacks and 50 total quarterback disruptions despite missing a portion of the season. Throw in Eric Winston and Mike Brisiel having their struggles in pass pro and it shouldn’t surprise many that Schaub also missed time.

There was an improvement in 2009, but the left side of the line was still scuffling. Losing Chester Pitts was something they never recovered from, with Kasey Studdard an ineffective replacement. So, in an off season where Wade Smith constituted the only new face, not much was expected from this group.

Putting it mildly, expectations were surpassed. When all was said and done, the Texans were the only team whose entire offensive line graded positively.


Parts of the Whole

We somewhat expected Eric Winston and Chris Myers to have good years. Sure, the everlasting memory of Myers’ 2009 season was Kris Jenkins slapping him to the floor, but the center had a strong season even with moments of suspect pass blocking. He carried this through to 2010 where, even with his issues in pass protection, he finished the year as our third highest graded center.

As for Winston, he ended up with a lower grade in 2010, though you can blame that largely on a terrible game against the Titans in Week 12. In that game, William Hayes and Jason Babin battered him to the tune of two sacks, one hit and four other pressures. Without that game, Winston finishes in the top three in our right tackle rankings; with it, he ended up a still creditable sixth.

As for the new addition to the group, Wade Smith, we weren’t entirely surprised. He featured prominently on our list of best value free agents, and responded with the kind of season that earned our third best overall grade for a guard, a spot on our Pro Bowl team, and second string honors on our All-Pro squad. The shame is that it could have been a lot better, but for a five week stretch where he lost his way with his run blocking between Weeks 9 and 13. Still, a very good effort from one of 2010’s most impressive performers.

The other guard, Mike Brisiel, had to rotate at times with Antoine Caldwell and missed some action as well. It didn’t slow him down, and before his season ending injury against Baltimore, he was playing the best football of his career. Despite playing just 510 snaps, he ended up with the sixth highest rating of all right guards in the league.

Lastly, we have Duane Brown, a player who had looked hopeless at times in his first two years. Year number three saw the arrival of his first positive rating, primarily on the back of his impressive run blocking (the Week 9 encounter with San Diego was a highlight reel in and of itself.) He did have issues with consistency and missed some time due to suspension, but the highs were enough to show that Brown can be a player at this level.

For a line that some were down on as the season approached, that was quite the performance. Four of the players ranking in the top six at their position and the last member slotting in above the average. This may have been helped by an off year for linemen in general, but credit has to be given where it’s due. The offensive line really stepped up, and while there’s still room for growth, it really deserves more attention than it has received.

For now they’re a bit of a secret, but if they stay on track, they won’t be for long.
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Old 04-17-2011   #35
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Default Re: Maiocco: Texans #14 in 5-year draft rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
PROFOOTBALLFOCUS surprised me with this very generous evaluation of our OL.


Quote:
Secret Superstar: The Entire Offensive Line, Houston Texans

March 29th, 2011 | Author: Khaled Elsayed


2010 was a case of same old, same old for the Houston Texans. Teasing with talent, but delivering disappointment.

There were, however, some positives to come out of the 2010.

So Duane Brown was drafted in 2008 to join a line featuring Eric Winston, Chris Myers and others.

To say he had a rough rookie year would be an understatement. Poor with his run blocking, he was beyond dreadful in pass protection, giving up 11 sacks and 50 total quarterback disruptions despite missing a portion of the season. Throw in Eric Winston and Mike Brisiel having their struggles in pass pro and it shouldn’t surprise many that Schaub also missed time.

There was an improvement in 2009, but the left side of the line was still scuffling. Losing Chester Pitts was something they never recovered from, with Kasey Studdard an ineffective replacement. So, in an off season where Wade Smith constituted the only new face, not much was expected from this group.

Putting it mildly, expectations were surpassed. When all was said and done, the Texans were the only team whose entire offensive line graded positively.

Lastly, we have Duane Brown, a player who had looked hopeless at times in his first two years. Year number three saw the arrival of his first positive rating, primarily on the back of his impressive run blocking (the Week 9 encounter with San Diego was a highlight reel in and of itself.) He did have issues with consistency and missed some time due to suspension, but the highs were enough to show that Brown can be a player at this level.

For a line that some were down on as the season approached, that was quite the performance. Four of the players ranking in the top six at their position and the last member slotting in above the average. This may have been helped by an off year for linemen in general, but credit has to be given where it’s due. The offensive line really stepped up, and while there’s still room for growth, it really deserves more attention than it has received.

For now they’re a bit of a secret, but if they stay on track, they won’t be for long.


I'm glad I'm not the only one who has noticed. Duane Brown has the potential to be a special player. It's not often you find your LT routinely run blocking 10-15+ yards down field. Duane Brown is the perfect LT for this system.
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Old 04-18-2011   #36
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Default Re: Maiocco: Texans #14 in 5-year draft rankings

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I'm glad I'm not the only one who has noticed. Duane Brown has the potential to be a special player. It's not often you find your LT routinely run blocking 10-15+ yards down field. Duane Brown is the perfect LT for this system.
And I think this is why Brown will not (maybe cannot) be considered a top 10-OLT. If for whatever reason the Texans change to another system where his ability to get down field is not as important, he just won't be the same guy. That said, assuming we are quickness, technique in the future, I fine with him as a long-term starter (with a reasonable contract).
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Old 04-18-2011   #37
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Default Re: Maiocco: Texans #14 in 5-year draft rankings

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
I'm glad I'm not the only one who has noticed. Duane Brown has the potential to be a special player. It's not often you find your LT routinely run blocking 10-15+ yards down field. Duane Brown is the perfect LT for this system.

Sure he's great at run blocking but not as good as pass blocker.

Maybe we should draft a LT who does nothing but pass block and we can rotate the guys?
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Old 04-18-2011   #38
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Default Re: Maiocco: Texans #14 in 5-year draft rankings

The fact that our crappy draft picks are still on the team is an indictment of our management being too patient with their failed and not being more proactive in addressing deficient starting positions. They are more worried about validating their draft picks than actually letting the best players get on the field. That was a problem pre-Smith too, so we better hope that type of garbage isn't coming from McNair or we are hosed for a long time.

I think Okoye has some skills but our defensive scheme has been awful for years. We have had just awful defensive co-ordinators since Day One of the Kubiak Experiment. Who promoted Bush from within a staff that was one of the worst in the leagues under Richard Smith? Who does that. Yeah we were the 28th ranked defense, so lets just promote one of the assistants. Smart move, Rick. So any leniency Rick would get from his picks being coached/schemed by inferior coaching, is negated by the fact that he was the guy that ultimately hired the inferior coaching.

A real GM would tell a coach to go outside of his comfort zone for coaching when his coaching circles are notoriously poor re:defense. Look at even Rat Shanahan. His teams have historically struggled on defensive side. A lot of that is on who they hire and trust/are friends with. Both of those guys are very paranoid regarding their style of gameplanning, and prefer to only hire from within their inferior pool of defensive coaching talent.

The good news is that Kubiak was forced to bring in Wade under extreme heat. Wade was the best DC available. We paid him nearly 3 times what we paid Bush, and there is talent on the defensive side. We have the best WR in the league and a QB who could be primed for a breakout season. Given even an average defense last year, Schaub is looked at as the comeback King of 2010 going into 2011 and maybe even a playoff victory or two. Schaub led our team back so many times last year only to have the defense come up short, it was pathetic and an embarassment. If Wade can get our defense to average, logic says we win more football games.

The bad news is that Kubiak is still HC and I still don't know if we have the leadership to take us through the mine field that is an NFL season. More bad news is that Kareem is probably starting Week 1 and we look to go through our annual dumpster dive for FAs, foregoing pursuit of top FAs, namely Aso.

I would put Rick in the bottom1/3 of GMs easily and there are some bad GMs out there. For every Foster, there is a Kareem. For every Schaub trade, there is passing up Revis for Okoye. #14 is way too high but they base that on # of starters, and that is flawed statistical barometer.
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