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Old 03-16-2011   #41
Rey
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Default Re: Hottoddie's "TEXAN'S PONY UP to TRADE UP" Mock Draft

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Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan View Post
Terrell Suggs was picked 10th overall
Damarcus Ware was picked 11th overall
Tamba Hali was picked 20th overall
Clay Matthews was picked 26th overall
James Harrison was an undrafted free agent
Cameron Wake was an undrafted free agent
Elvis Dumervil was selected in the 4th round
Are any of those guys gonna be available when we are on the clock with the 11th pick????



Quote:
You make it sound like it's Von Miller or bust when it comes to the OLBs this year. I think there's a ton of talent that will be available at 11 and through our 2nd round pick: Robert Quin, Brooks Reed, Akeem Ayers, Aldon Smith, Sam Acho, Justin Houston, Ryan Kerrigan, Adrian Clayborn, to name a few.

I just think this is the classic mentality that there are only 2-3 truly elite talents and everyone else sucks. It happens every single year. Teams miss out on the Aaron Curry's, Eric Berry's and the Brian Orakpo's all the time in the draft but they pick up players like Brian Cushing, Earl Thomas and Clay Matthews.
Staying at 11 and not trading up to 3 won't be the end of the world.
I think that you and others are generalizing what I and others are saying when talking about trading up.

Sure you can find talent anywhere. Heck, you can get undrafted FA's that can become stars...But I'm not gonna bet the farm on that...Just because you can find a diamond in the rough doesn't mean you should spend all your money on the rough and look for diamonds.

IMO....again....IMO....None of the defensive talent that has been mentioned where we will be picking at #11 will be impact players.

In fact, if we stay at 11 I'm praying we are able to get Julio Jones. I think that dude can be an elite player...offensively...

But we need an OLB and a pass rush and an elite defensive player. I think that Von Miller is the best prospect in the draft that fills both of those needs.

I understand what you're saying, but I don't think it needed to be said. I think everyone knows that you can find difference makers anywhere in the draft.

But if everyone though like that no one would ever trade up...They'd say screw my top ten pick...I'll just let the time run out and pick a guy at 15, get a guy that could be just as good AND save money. Teams don't do that because the top rated players are normally the ones with the elite ability.
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Old 03-16-2011   #42
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Default Re: Hottoddie's "TEXAN'S PONY UP to TRADE UP" Mock Draft

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For me, I don't consider CB a hole that's going to be (or needs to be) fixed in the draft. I consider that an FA issue. We need an experienced corner, not a rookie.

I think the only position we draft at #11 is OLB and I think there are plenty of candidates who will do a great job at that draft spot. Although it would be nice if Quinn fell to us, I think there are plenty of other options that would be fine at #11. There are so many candidates at #11 that I think we can drop back a few spots and still get one of them and be very successful.

The Texans may have their eye on someone and they may trade up to get him. If Peterson drops past 5, then we might trade up to get him. If Miller drops past 7 or 8 then we might trade up to get him. But I don't think they're going to trade all the way up to 3. That's just too costly.

When I first came up with the idea of this thread it wasn't because I had a burning desire for Peterson, but was intended to show the ones that always feel the Texans don't have the guts to trade up for their favorite player what it would cost to get one of them. It's my belief that if you start a thread like this then you better argue for it like you truely believe in it. I've always felt that trading down was the only way to go if none of the players I mentioned in my previous post dropped to #11. However, if they get close then you have to re-evaluate your position.

After #10 we enter into the second tier of defensive players & trading down would still allow us to get one of those players & an extra pick or two. The problem with that as I see it, the other teams most likely feel the same way. So as a result, we'd have to trade down to late in the 1st round or possibly early 2nd round for a 3rd tier player.

I agree with you that unless one of the CB's or OLB's get real close to #11 we'll stay put. I still have faith in our young CB's growing into the job & feel that we only need another stud OLB. But, the one position I have always felt, & still do, that we have to get in this draft is a stud NT. While Wade runs a hybrid variation of the 3-4, you still have to have a big hoss in the middle to tie up two Olinemen. Pick #11 is too high to take Phil Taylor, but if we can't get a stud CB or OLB I'd like to see us trade down & go get Taylor.
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Old 03-16-2011   #43
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Default Re: Hottoddie's "TEXAN'S PONY UP to TRADE UP" Mock Draft

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I disagree that we lack depth.

I think that we lack quality starters. I think that some of the starters we have would make excellent depth.
really? so aftef 9 years we have few legitimate starters only depth players who happen to not be stater material anyway?

so when barwin went down early last season & texans lost their only rising star pass rusher he doesn't count, yet texans had nobody to replace him?

or when DeMeco tore his acl the texans moved cushing inside in a seamless transition?

or texans had to shut down andre johnson & mario williams to avoid more serious injury, even though it meant a huge drop off both offensive & defensively.

or the fact at least two maybe three if you count diles, where starters have already been cut (pollard/wilson).

well I guess your right we need a whole fresh roster of starting material because what we got can't stay healthy or even make the roster....
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Old 03-16-2011   #44
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Default Re: Hottoddie's "TEXAN'S PONY UP to TRADE UP" Mock Draft

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well I guess your right we need a whole fresh roster of starting material because what we got can't stay healthy or even make the roster
No...Not a whole roster.

Just a FS, SS, CB, OLB, NT, and maybe a FB...



But if we have a whole bunch of starters get hurt and we are replacing them with mid-late round draft picks we'll likely suck anyways...
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Old 03-16-2011   #45
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Default Re: Hottoddie's "TEXAN'S PONY UP to TRADE UP" Mock Draft

There are a couple of things necessary for this trade up to occur

Its heavily reliant on free agency starting ..be it before or after the draft.
And A.J green gets picked up in the top 5.

My proposed trade is to trade up to pick 6 (cleveland).

Going by walter footballs trade value chart.
Pick 6 is valued at 1600
While 11 is valued at 1250.
That is 350 we need to give to the browns.

Now my trade to them would be,

our 1st, and 5th (36.5 points) as well as, antonio smith who i have valued at a 4th rounder at 100points and steve slaton who i have valued as a 6th rounder (25points).

This gives them 376.5 points.

The reason for trading antonio smith is because cleveland is moving to the 4-3 and smith has been a little be concerned at playing the 3-4 at houston.

Also slaton would give them a back up to Hillis which they dont have and also a different kind of RB.

This means we can keep the vital 2nd pick.

then in the draft we select:
round 1: Von Miller OLB
Round 2: Quinton Carter
Round 4: Ian Williams NT
Round 6: Best CB or OLB available.
ROund 7: BPA (e.g. dorin dickerson from last year)

In free agency we go out and sign :
DE (e.g. m.spears)
CB (e.g. a.cromartie)
SS (e.g. d.landry)

We came into the off season with needs at
OLB, CB, SS, NT.

And we will address these all by the end of the off season.




do u think cleveland would take this deal?????

What do you guys think of the overall off season if this occurred??

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Old 03-18-2011   #46
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Default Re: Hottoddie's "TEXAN'S PONY UP to TRADE UP" Mock Draft

I'm glad this dude isn't our GM.
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Old 03-18-2011   #47
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Default Re: Hottoddie's "TEXAN'S PONY UP to TRADE UP" Mock Draft

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Originally Posted by aussie_texan View Post
There are a couple of things necessary for this trade up to occur

Its heavily reliant on free agency starting ..be it before or after the draft.
And A.J green gets picked up in the top 5.

My proposed trade is to trade up to pick 6 (cleveland).

Going by walter footballs trade value chart.
Pick 6 is valued at 1600
While 11 is valued at 1250.
That is 350 we need to give to the browns.

Now my trade to them would be,

our 1st, and 5th (36.5 points) as well as, antonio smith who i have valued at a 4th rounder at 100points and steve slaton who i have valued as a 6th rounder (25points).

This gives them 376.5 points.

The reason for trading antonio smith is because cleveland is moving to the 4-3 and smith has been a little be concerned at playing the 3-4 at houston.

Also slaton would give them a back up to Hillis which they dont have and also a different kind of RB.

This means we can keep the vital 2nd pick.

then in the draft we select:
round 1: Von Miller OLB
Round 2: Quinton Carter
Round 4: Ian Williams NT
Round 6: Best CB or OLB available.
ROund 7: BPA (e.g. dorin dickerson from last year)

In free agency we go out and sign :
DE (e.g. m.spears)
CB (e.g. a.cromartie)
SS (e.g. d.landry)

We came into the off season with needs at
OLB, CB, SS, NT.

And we will address these all by the end of the off season.




do u think cleveland would take this deal?????

What do you guys think of the overall off season if this occurred??
I would be very happy with that...

But is Miller going to last to 6?
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Old 03-18-2011   #48
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Default Re: Hottoddie's "TEXAN'S PONY UP to TRADE UP" Mock Draft

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I'm glad this dude isn't our GM.
Depends on how good you think Peterson is going to be. If he becomes ASO/Deion/Revis/Woodson it's worth it. IMHO

He was just trying to illustrate how much it would take to move up 5 spots to get Peterson. I dont think he is for this trade either. If they had lost the Jags game all of this would be a moot point.

For the record I'm against this trade.
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Old 03-21-2011   #49
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Default Re: Hottoddie's "TEXAN'S PONY UP to TRADE UP" Mock Draft

You don't trade future first round picks to move up in the draft. Quite frankly, the draft is a crap shoot and the sure thing prospect could end up being a total bust. Successful organizations like the Patriots trade down and acquire first round picks from foolish teams who want to trade them away. Other successful teams take their picks and hit on them much more than not, like the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Typically trading away future first rounders to select prospects fails. Here are some examples.

San Francisco traded its first-round selection in 2008 (and other picks) to New England for one of their 1st rounders and picked OT Joe Staley. New England used the SF 1st rounder in 2008 to select ILB Jerod Mayo. New England got the better end here by far.

Cleveland traded its first rounder in 2008 to Dallas for Dallas' first rounder in 2007. Browns took QB Brady Quinn. Quinn is no longer in Cleveland.

Indy traded their first plus others to get OT Tony Ugoh. Ugoh is no longer in Indy.

Denver traded its future first(part of the jay Cutler deal) to Seattle and got CB Alphonso Smith. A couple of years later they traded him to Detroit for a TE Dan Gronkowski.
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Old 03-21-2011   #50
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Default Re: Hottoddie's "TEXAN'S PONY UP to TRADE UP" Mock Draft

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Typically trading away future first rounders to select prospects fails.
I pretty much agree with this. There's usually a good player or players available at a given 1st round slot. It's the good personnel guys who can figure out who these players are. It's the guys who don't know what they are doing who usually panic and trade away picks (though it can even happen to good GMs like Polian).
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Old 03-22-2011   #51
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Default Re: Hottoddie's "TEXAN'S PONY UP to TRADE UP" Mock Draft

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I pretty much agree with this. There's usually a good player or players available at a given 1st round slot. It's the good personnel guys who can figure out who these players are. It's the guys who don't know what they are doing who usually panic and trade away picks (though it can even happen to good GMs like Polian).
You guys are thinking about the future. Do you think Kubiak With his back to the wall wouldnt trade away a future pick that he might never see anyway over getting another first round talent to add right now? If he dont hes a better man than me.

Hmm if it were me I would

target one of the elites with a package of #11 with our second round pick if it would get me one of

Marcel Dareus 6-3, 320 4.93 Alabama (DE)
Nick Fairley 6-4, 291 4.87 Auburn

I would then trade next years first for an early second round pick if I could get one of these guys

J.J. Watt 6-6, 290 4.85 Wisconsin
Justin Houston 6-3, 270 4.68 Georgia
Cameron Jordan 6-4, 287 4.78 California
Aldon Smith 6-4, 263 4.74 Missouri (X)
Muhammad Wilkerson 6-4, 315 4.96 Temple
Phil Taylor 6-3.5, 337 5.14 Baylor (NT/O)


If you could come out of this draft with Darius and Wilkerson or Taylor over keeping next years pick, would you do it then? That would make a pretty impressive line.

How about sitting where were at and drafting the highest rated player available Like say JJ Watt and then combining our second round pick with next years first and go after a player like

Justin Houston 6-3, 270 4.68 Georgia
Robert Quinn 6-4, 265 4.70 North
Cameron Jordan 6-4, 287 4.78 California
Aldon Smith 6-4, 263 4.74 Missouri (X)
Muhammad Wilkerson 6-4, 315 4.96 Temple
Phil Taylor 6-3.5, 337 5.14 Baylor (NT/O)

JJ Watt and Houston would sound better to you than worrying about next year if you were in Kubiaks position.
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Old 03-22-2011   #52
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Default Re: Hottoddie's "TEXAN'S PONY UP to TRADE UP" Mock Draft

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You guys are thinking about the future. Do you think Kubiak With his back to the wall wouldnt trade away a future pick that he might never see anyway over getting another first round talent to add right now? If he dont hes a better man than me.

Hmm if it were me I would

target one of the elites with a package of #11 with our second round pick if it would get me one of

Marcel Dareus 6-3, 320 4.93 Alabama (DE)
Nick Fairley 6-4, 291 4.87 Auburn

I would then trade next years first for an early second round pick if I could get one of these guys

J.J. Watt 6-6, 290 4.85 Wisconsin
Justin Houston 6-3, 270 4.68 Georgia
Cameron Jordan 6-4, 287 4.78 California
Aldon Smith 6-4, 263 4.74 Missouri (X)
Muhammad Wilkerson 6-4, 315 4.96 Temple
Phil Taylor 6-3.5, 337 5.14 Baylor (NT/O)


If you could come out of this draft with Darius and Wilkerson or Taylor over keeping next years pick, would you do it then? That would make a pretty impressive line.

How about sitting where were at and drafting the highest rated player available Like say JJ Watt and then combining our second round pick with next years first and go after a player like

Justin Houston 6-3, 270 4.68 Georgia
Robert Quinn 6-4, 265 4.70 North
Cameron Jordan 6-4, 287 4.78 California
Aldon Smith 6-4, 263 4.74 Missouri (X)
Muhammad Wilkerson 6-4, 315 4.96 Temple
Phil Taylor 6-3.5, 337 5.14 Baylor (NT/O)

JJ Watt and Houston would sound better to you than worrying about next year if you were in Kubiaks position.
Agreed

But it's not going to happen.
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Old 03-23-2011   #53
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Default Re: Hottoddie's "TEXAN'S PONY UP to TRADE UP" Mock Draft

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You guys are thinking about the future. Do you think Kubiak With his back to the wall wouldnt trade away a future pick that he might never see anyway over getting another first round talent to add right now? If he dont hes a better man than me.
I'd be more inclined to use a future pick to trade back up in the 1st/2nd than for us to use one moving up from #11 for one player.

I'd stand pat at #11 and select the best available player that the F.O. covets: Von Miller, Robert Quin, J.J. Watt

The Patriots are sitting there with so many picks, we may be able to keep our 2nd rounder this year. Trade away 2012's 1st round pick and maybe a 2011's 3rd rd pick for their spot at #23.... or maybe trade 2012's 2nd and 2011's 3rd for their spot at #33.

If we went J.J. Watt at #11, maybe we target Adrian Clayborn, Akeem Ayers, Justin Houston or Brooks Reed for OLB.

Then with our original 2nd rounder we can take a S like Quinton Carter.

11) DE J.J. Watt
23) OLB Adrian Clayborn
41) S Quinton Carter

Quin, Jackson, Allen stay at CB... we sign a FA SS like Gerald Sensabaugh, Carter plays FS.
Clayborn, Cushing, Demeco, Barwin, Anderson, Sharpton at LB.
Mario, Watt, Cody, Mitchell, Antonio, Okoye on the DL... maybe sign Marcus Spears as depth.

Looks solid to me
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Old 03-23-2011   #54
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Default Re: Hottoddie's "TEXAN'S PONY UP to TRADE UP" Mock Draft

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I'd be more inclined to use a future pick to trade back up in the 1st/2nd than for us to use one moving up from #11 for one player.

I'd stand pat at #11 and select the best available player that the F.O. covets: Von Miller, Robert Quin, J.J. Watt

The Patriots are sitting there with so many picks, we may be able to keep our 2nd rounder this year. Trade away 2012's 1st round pick and maybe a 2011's 3rd rd pick for their spot at #23.... or maybe trade 2012's 2nd and 2011's 3rd for their spot at #33.

If we went J.J. Watt at #11, maybe we target Adrian Clayborn, Akeem Ayers, Justin Houston or Brooks Reed for OLB.

Then with our original 2nd rounder we can take a S like Quinton Carter.

11) DE J.J. Watt
23) OLB Adrian Clayborn
41) S Quinton Carter

Quin, Jackson, Allen stay at CB... we sign a FA SS like Gerald Sensabaugh, Carter plays FS.
Clayborn, Cushing, Demeco, Barwin, Anderson, Sharpton at LB.
Mario, Watt, Cody, Mitchell, Antonio, Okoye on the DL... maybe sign Marcus Spears as depth.

Looks solid to me
I like where you're going with this but there are a couple of things. NE doesn't have the #23. They have #28.

We could trade into #28 or #33 and target Brooks Reed. Justin Houston will probably be off the board.

And there is no way in hell that Clayborn can play the OLB in any system. In the 34 he is strictly a DE so we wouldn't target him if we already took Watt.

In this situation I could see us taking a guy like Kerrigan at #11, slight reach as far as value is concerned but I would love that pick. He would be our OLB.

Then at the #28 or #33 we could target a DE like Clayborn or Allen Bailey.

I would be fine with Carter at our second round pick too.
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Old 03-23-2011   #55
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Default Re: Hottoddie's "TEXAN'S PONY UP to TRADE UP" Mock Draft

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Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan View Post
I'd be more inclined to use a future pick to trade back up in the 1st/2nd than for us to use one moving up from #11 for one player.

I'd stand pat at #11 and select the best available player that the F.O. covets: Von Miller, Robert Quin, J.J. Watt

The Patriots are sitting there with so many picks, we may be able to keep our 2nd rounder this year. Trade away 2012's 1st round pick and maybe a 2011's 3rd rd pick for their spot at #23.... or maybe trade 2012's 2nd and 2011's 3rd for their spot at #33.

If we went J.J. Watt at #11, maybe we target Adrian Clayborn, Akeem Ayers, Justin Houston or Brooks Reed for OLB.

Then with our original 2nd rounder we can take a S like Quinton Carter.

11) DE J.J. Watt
23) OLB Adrian Clayborn
41) S Quinton Carter

Quin, Jackson, Allen stay at CB... we sign a FA SS like Gerald Sensabaugh, Carter plays FS.
Clayborn, Cushing, Demeco, Barwin, Anderson, Sharpton at LB.
Mario, Watt, Cody, Mitchell, Antonio, Okoye on the DL... maybe sign Marcus Spears as depth.

Looks solid to me
Are you reading my notes? My next mock uses some of the concepts that you've posted here. Only, some of the players differ. I've had it almost complete for the last few days, but I'm still struggling with which player I want to select in the 7th round. Hopefully I can get it posted later today. I'd be perfectly happy with your ideas though.
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Old 03-23-2011   #56
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Default Re: Hottoddie's "TEXAN'S PONY UP to TRADE UP" Mock Draft

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I like where you're going with this but there are a couple of things. NE doesn't have the #23. They have #28.

And there is no way in hell that Clayborn can play the OLB in any system. In the 34 he is strictly a DE so we wouldn't target him if we already took Watt.
Doh! Thanks bah.... lol, I had 28 in my head but wrote 23. I initially had the trade as a 2012 1st rounder and a late 2011 pick but then was like that doesn't get us to 23! lol

I put Clayborn as the selection because I've read that his coaches made him bulk up to play DL this past season. Now, I didn't watch the combine nor did I see him in any linebacker drills so not sure about the switch. Drew Boylhart thinks he can lose some weight down to about 260 and play a role like Clay Matthews or Orakpo. I think Wade Phillips would be the kind of coach that could put him in good situations for him in rushing the passer.

Not really promoting the pick, but just naming an option.
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Originally Posted by Hottoddie View Post
Are you reading my notes? My next mock uses some of the concepts that you've posted here. Only, some of the players differ. I've had it almost complete for the last few days, but I'm still struggling with which player I want to select in the 7th round. Hopefully I can get it posted later today. I'd be perfectly happy with your ideas though.
My apologies. I've been having to read this board from my iPhone lately and sometimes miss updates. My main concern is that I'm not a fan of using 2011 1st and 2012 1st to move up a few spots this year and take a player. I really feel like we can get a pro bowl player or two throughout the 1st this year.

ie - I'd rather have JJ Watt and Ryan Kerrigan (and no 2012 1st) than just Von Miller (and no 2012 1st). Again, names just as example... I'm far from a scout.

Looking forward to your 7 Rounder!! The draft is only a month away.
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Old 03-23-2011   #57
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Default Re: Hottoddie's "TEXAN'S PONY UP to TRADE UP" Mock Draft

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My apologies.
No apologies are necessary. I meant that as a joke. I should've added one of these. Sorry about the misunderstanding.
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Old 03-23-2011   #58
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Default Re: Hottoddie's "TEXAN'S PONY UP to TRADE UP" Mock Draft

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No apologies are necessary. I meant that as a joke. I should've added one of these. Sorry about the misunderstanding.
Oh I just reread your post. LOL.
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