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Old 12-28-2010   #21
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Default Re: Draft position question

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
Which wouldn't be a bad pick considering the fact that there will no doubt be a defensive coaching change. We could be running a 3-4 next year.

Picking in the 5-10 range also gives us an opportunity to trade down. Picks 5-10 are better trade bait than 1-4 IMO. Getting an extra 2nd rounder or maybe two 3rd rounders would be ideal in our situation.

I like the idea of going heavy pass rushing route if we go to the 3-4. We need a Ryan Kerrigan, Von Miller, Dareus type of player. While Darues isn't a pure pass rusher, he creates enough havoc and serves two purposes. After that we need to go safety in one of the next 2 rounds. Overall, I think we would be better served grabbing the front 7 players we need to add depth rather than draft a CB in the later rounds. If we can't get a top flight corner in this draft we may as well ignore it altogether. We have plenty of young corners, adding a veteran CB in the off-season would be the best move. It doesn't have to be Champ Bailey but a guy who can atleast play the nickel and start here and there.
If the Texans do in fact make a move to a 3-4 Defense, a bad idea in my opinion, they will need 3-4 NT's and several LB's not 3-4 DE's. They have plenty of players currently under contract that can play 3-4 DE.
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Old 12-28-2010   #22
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Default Re: Draft position question

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Which wouldn't be a bad pick considering the fact that there will no doubt be a defensive coaching change. We could be running a 3-4 next year.

Picking in the 5-10 range also gives us an opportunity to trade down. Picks 5-10 are better trade bait than 1-4 IMO. Getting an extra 2nd rounder or maybe two 3rd rounders would be ideal in our situation.

I like the idea of going heavy pass rushing route if we go to the 3-4. We need a Ryan Kerrigan, Von Miller, Dareus type of player. While Darues isn't a pure pass rusher, he creates enough havoc and serves two purposes. After that we need to go safety in one of the next 2 rounds. Overall, I think we would be better served grabbing the front 7 players we need to add depth rather than draft a CB in the later rounds. If we can't get a top flight corner in this draft we may as well ignore it altogether. We have plenty of young corners, adding a veteran CB in the off-season would be the best move. It doesn't have to be Champ Bailey but a guy who can atleast play the nickel and start here and there.
I agree whole-heartedly with your post. Especially about a veteran CB. It looks like Bailey will be leaving Denver - I would LOVE to add his presence to our secondary. Any idea of how likely that may be? I think McNair will be more willing to get FAs this offseason than ever before. It will either be to (a) keep Smith/Kubiak's job and make it easier or (b) please the new coaching regime. I still think we're a Safety with range away but I would actually feel good about Bailey, Quin and Jackson at corner.

As far as our 1st rounder: What would I give for a true stud NT!!? Would Darius, Fairley, Paea or even Nevis from LSU be able to play 3-4 NT? If we could just add a veteran CB like Bailey I think our 1st/2nd rounders could really sure up the front seven with a NT/OLB combo or DE/OLB combo. Whether we're a 4-3 or 3-4, a NT and pass rusher could very well be had.
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Old 12-28-2010   #23
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Default Re: Draft position question

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I agree whole-heartedly with your post. Especially about a veteran CB. It looks like Bailey will be leaving Denver - I would LOVE to add his presence to our secondary. Any idea of how likely that may be? I think McNair will be more willing to get FAs this offseason than ever before. It will either be to (a) keep Smith/Kubiak's job and make it easier or (b) please the new coaching regime. I still think we're a Safety with range away but I would actually feel good about Bailey, Quin and Jackson at corner.

As far as our 1st rounder: What would I give for a true stud NT!!? Would Darius, Fairley, Paea or even Nevis from LSU be able to play 3-4 NT? If we could just add a veteran CB like Bailey I think our 1st/2nd rounders could really sure up the front seven with a NT/OLB combo or DE/OLB combo. Whether we're a 4-3 or 3-4, a NT and pass rusher could very well be had.


Kyle Williams of the Buffalo Bills is not your typical nose tackle (6'1" 300-Lbs) yet he's doing a solid job over there. Jay Ratliff, untill now, was only 300-Lbs and he was a force at the nose tackle position so I don't think we really neeed a Kris Jenkins beast-like player.

To me, the success of a 3-4 scheme comes down to simpile team work and OLBs. If we can find players who can get after the QB, we won't need to invest too much into the nose tackle position allowing us to get a CB in the 1st round of the draft.

We could also use the 1st round to get a pass-rushing LB, but for the most part that position has been a hit or miss.
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Old 12-28-2010   #24
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Default Re: Draft position question

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If the Texans do in fact make a move to a 3-4 Defense, a bad idea in my opinion, they will need 3-4 NT's and several LB's not 3-4 DE's. They have plenty of players currently under contract that can play 3-4 DE.
Not really. Antonio Smith really shouldn't be looked at for the long term. Amobi Okoye just doesn't look like he can play football. You could line him up at 3-4 DE but would he really be successful?

Basically you have Mario, Smith, Okoye, Mitchell. That could easily be upgraded with a guy like Dareus, assuming he is your top player on your board. I agree that we don't need to reach for a 3-4 end if we were to switch to that defensive scheme, but I don't think we should pass up our top rated player if he is a 3-4 end. Kerrigan or Miller would probably be better picks than Dareus if the GM rates them similiarly.

I definitely agree that we need to add a NT if we move to the 3-4. We would probably have to add 2 or 3 of those type of players.
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Old 12-28-2010   #25
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Default Re: Draft position question

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Not really. Antonio Smith really shouldn't be looked at for the long term. Amobi Okoye just doesn't look like he can play football. You could line him up at 3-4 DE but would he really be successful?

Basically you have Mario, Smith, Okoye, Mitchell. That could easily be upgraded with a guy like Dareus, assuming he is your top player on your board. I agree that we don't need to reach for a 3-4 end if we were to switch to that defensive scheme, but I don't think we should pass up our top rated player if he is a 3-4 end. Kerrigan or Miller would probably be better picks than Dareus if the GM rates them similiarly.

I definitely agree that we need to add a NT if we move to the 3-4. We would probably have to add 2 or 3 of those type of players.
A vet FA (FA Franklin or Coffield) Lewis,Mitchell and a late pick ( I like Dexter Larimore in the 4/5th rd.) Should be able to hold down the fort for a couple of yrs.

This team needs to spend its high picks on another OLB,S,CB,WR/PR-KR.
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Old 12-29-2010   #26
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Default Re: Draft position question

If this team switches to a 3-4 I will stop following them. It's that simple. That would just be pissing down our own leg or puking out the window on the highway. We don't have anything close to the players needed to win with that scheme. We don't have enough draft picks or time to get it done either. The entire notion is retarded in my opinion. You would need a NT, two OLB's with some ability to get after the QB, and if you're thinking about shifting Cushing and Ryans (coming off a major surgery as it is) you're still leaving two gaping holes at LB. If you even attempt to assert that Diles is an answer, I will laugh in your face. Then, you can move to our current problems that we will have a hard enough time filling with our lack of a true FS and our complete ineptness and lack of experience at CB. Like I said, I will absolutely laugh in your face if you think switching would be the smart move.

Sorry to rant.
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Old 12-29-2010   #27
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Default Re: Draft position question

I might get flamed for saying this




butttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt





aj green?
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Old 12-30-2010   #28
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Default Re: Draft position question

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If this team switches to a 3-4 I will stop following them. It's that simple. That would just be pissing down our own leg or puking out the window on the highway. We don't have anything close to the players needed to win with that scheme. We don't have enough draft picks or time to get it done either. The entire notion is retarded in my opinion. You would need a NT, two OLB's with some ability to get after the QB, and if you're thinking about shifting Cushing and Ryans (coming off a major surgery as it is) you're still leaving two gaping holes at LB. If you even attempt to assert that Diles is an answer, I will laugh in your face. Then, you can move to our current problems that we will have a hard enough time filling with our lack of a true FS and our complete ineptness and lack of experience at CB. Like I said, I will absolutely laugh in your face if you think switching would be the smart move.

Sorry to rant.
as I know your prone to do but in this scenero I must agree. Conversion back to a 3-4 that was never successful to begin with, then aquiring defensive foundation players speicalized for a 4-3 would be suicide, setting Texans back another (regime) 5 years. the Texans need to get smart or lucky, I don't care and actually draft an interior ideal three technique 4-3 DT. Let's assume our professional representation amongst Texans scouting department have a better understanding what exactly to target & fill this need? Texans are going to need some luck on this but a perfect fit would be Drake Nevis, LSU & he might still be on the board in the 2nd rd.? He is cat quick & fits the profile @ 6'1" 295. Unlike Amobi or even Mario he has an assortment of pass rushing moves, I've seen him use a spin, rip, club & arm over just to name four, plus he plays consistantly with a sense of urgency.

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Old 12-30-2010   #29
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Default Re: Draft position question

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If this team switches to a 3-4 I will stop following them. It's that simple. That would just be pissing down our own leg or puking out the window on the highway. We don't have anything close to the players needed to win with that scheme. We don't have enough draft picks or time to get it done either. The entire notion is retarded in my opinion. You would need a NT, two OLB's with some ability to get after the QB, and if you're thinking about shifting Cushing and Ryans (coming off a major surgery as it is) you're still leaving two gaping holes at LB. If you even attempt to assert that Diles is an answer, I will laugh in your face. Then, you can move to our current problems that we will have a hard enough time filling with our lack of a true FS and our complete ineptness and lack of experience at CB. Like I said, I will absolutely laugh in your face if you think switching would be the smart move.

Sorry to rant.
Would Barwin make a good 3/4 OLB, Could an OLB like Miller be drafted in the 1st Rd. or Herzlich in the 2nd rd?

NT's that are Vets available in FA Solari,Franklin,Coffield. Cant a developmental NT be taken in RD 4/5?

Cant a good CB be found in rRd.1 or 2 and a FS and SS in rds 3 which there will be 2 with the compensation pick? (Dunta)

I'm not advocating a switch to a 3/4. But trust me if Cowher comes here and wants to run a 3/4 that shouldn't be a deterrent.

With the current Texan defense there's nowhere to go but up. They are terrible currently not just for this yr. But historically bad.
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Old 12-30-2010   #30
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Default Re: Draft position question

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If this team switches to a 3-4 I will stop following them. It's that simple. That would just be pissing down our own leg or puking out the window on the highway. We don't have anything close to the players needed to win with that scheme. We don't have enough draft picks or time to get it done either. The entire notion is retarded in my opinion. You would need a NT, two OLB's with some ability to get after the QB, and if you're thinking about shifting Cushing and Ryans (coming off a major surgery as it is) you're still leaving two gaping holes at LB. If you even attempt to assert that Diles is an answer, I will laugh in your face. Then, you can move to our current problems that we will have a hard enough time filling with our lack of a true FS and our complete ineptness and lack of experience at CB. Like I said, I will absolutely laugh in your face if you think switching would be the smart move.

Sorry to rant.
If they make the shift to the 3-4 you don't think Cushing & Barwin would be good OLB's? You have Cushing & Barwin on the outside with Sharpton & Ryans in the middle. Get a big NT in FA or the draft & I could see them making a quick transition to the 3-4.
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Old 12-30-2010   #31
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Default Re: Draft position question

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If this team switches to a 3-4 I will stop following them. It's that simple. That would just be pissing down our own leg or puking out the window on the highway. We don't have anything close to the players needed to win with that scheme. We don't have enough draft picks or time to get it done either. The entire notion is retarded in my opinion. You would need a NT, two OLB's with some ability to get after the QB, and if you're thinking about shifting Cushing and Ryans (coming off a major surgery as it is) you're still leaving two gaping holes at LB. If you even attempt to assert that Diles is an answer, I will laugh in your face. Then, you can move to our current problems that we will have a hard enough time filling with our lack of a true FS and our complete ineptness and lack of experience at CB. Like I said, I will absolutely laugh in your face if you think switching would be the smart move.

Sorry to rant.
Sorry to break it to you, but this year clearly shows that we don't have the players on defense to win with any scheme. Are we closer to a sound 4/3? Sure. Are we that much closer than to a 3/4? I seriously doubt it.
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Old 12-30-2010   #32
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Default Re: Draft position question

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I might get flamed for saying this




butttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt





aj green?
I'd love it. Do what the Saints do and just bomb people into oblivion, defense be damned.

A washed up OD and Kevin "But I'm a good blocker" Walter aren't scaring anyone.
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Old 12-30-2010   #33
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Default Re: Draft position question

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I'd love it. Do what the Saints do and just bomb people into oblivion, defense be damned.

A washed up OD and Kevin "But I'm a good blocker" Walter aren't scaring anyone.
I'm waiting to see what the Texans draft position will be. But if Green (wont be) is on the board you have to take him.

I will do a Texans Mock next week.
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Old 12-30-2010   #34
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Default Re: Draft position question

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I'm waiting to see what the Texans draft position will be. But if Green (wont be) is on the board you have to take him.

I will do a Texans Mock next week.
Agreed. I want all defense this draft but if AJ Green is available we can't pass on him. Either trade down with a team wanting him and collect some great picks or take the dude. Andre + Green would be insane. Go defense heavy the rest of the draft.
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Old 12-30-2010   #35
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Default Re: Draft position question

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Sorry to break it to you, but this year clearly shows that we don't have the players on defense to win with any scheme. Are we closer to a sound 4/3? Sure. Are we that much closer than to a 3/4? I seriously doubt it.
Haha. Nice post. I do think we would set our entire franchise back 3-5 years with a defensive transition. Rep to you though, my man.
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Old 12-30-2010   #36
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Default Re: Draft position question

Set the defense back from where?

Historically bad to where?
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Old 12-30-2010   #37
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Default Re: Draft position question

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Would Barwin make a good 3/4 OLB, Could an OLB like Miller be drafted in the 1st Rd. or Herzlich in the 2nd rd?

NT's that are Vets available in FA Solari,Franklin,Coffield. Cant a developmental NT be taken in RD 4/5?

Cant a good CB be found in rRd.1 or 2 and a FS and SS in rds 3 which there will be 2 with the compensation pick? (Dunta)

I'm not advocating a switch to a 3/4. But trust me if Cowher comes here and wants to run a 3/4 that shouldn't be a deterrent.

With the current Texan defense there's nowhere to go but up. They are terrible currently not just for this yr. But historically bad.
I do think Barwin would make a pretty good 3-4 OLB. Anyone (aside from who goes ahead of us) can be drafted in the first round, just look at Jason Babin.

NT is a tough spot to fill, and one that is worth having as an anchor won't be found floating around in the FA market. Hampton almost made it last year, but we all knew there was zero chance Pittsburgh was letting him walk. Even New England, who always let's guys walk only to fill their spot with another guy, bent themselves over backwards to give Vince a new long-term contract when he started bitching. That should show you the value of one. I do not believe in developmental guys as much as the next person, especially with the lack of player development our organization has proven to produce.

I actually agree that talent can be found in the secondary. I think there are 3 top 20 talents at CB. Peterson is the prize. He's the Eric Berry of this draft, but at CB (maybe a FS?). I really like Tyler Sash as a SS in the early third. He plays FS at Iowa I believe, but I just don't think he's an NFL FS. However, we need experience and leadership to take the next step. I put zero stock into anyone coaching them, this regime or the next. None. I have zero confidence in our player development as a whole. With that said, I am perfectly comfortable with this group NOT learning from Daunta Robinson.

There are other issues to move around, like Mario. Also, Cushing would have to be a MLB in the 3-4 I feel, which is not his strength. We'd need roughly 3 NFL caliber LB's, a prize NT, we still need a secondary, we'd need some coaching obviously, and quite a bit of patience.
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Old 12-30-2010   #38
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Default Re: Draft position question

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Set the defense back from where?

Historically bad to where?
I said, "set the franchise back." The defense is bad, but I feel that was due to lack of leadership and coaching. I don't see us progressing as a team, from the win-loss perspective, for a few years as we fully transition to a new scheme.
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Old 12-30-2010   #39
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Default Re: Draft position question

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Also, Cushing would have to be a MLB in the 3-4 I feel, which is not his strength.
Don't you think that Cushing could fill the role that Woodley does in Pittsburgh?
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Old 12-30-2010   #40
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Default Re: Draft position question

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Also, Cushing would have to be a MLB in the 3-4 I feel, which is not his strength.
Why would he have to play MLB?

Trying to figure out how you came to that conclusion...
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