Franchise is heading in the wrong

Originally Posted by LBC_Justin

you need to go back and watch the tapes of the games last season. Don't just look at the stats because they were very very very misleading. Sharper was not a good play last year, in fact he was a liability.

Again.......Go back and watch the game film. You will be surprised how much you will change your mind on this issue. At first I agreed with you then after hearing people talk about how he made most of his tackles after 5 year gains and how he couldnt do anything productive when he drops back in pass coverge, I went back and watch the film. Wow they were more than right. If you are a fan of Sharper and you watch the game film and focus on his position you will be SHOCKED.

I am not surprised they are already dissapointed in his play in Seattle.

I've watched several games and Sharper did get beat few times, shocked would not be the word I would use. I've seen more 3rd down completions by the other teams 3rd wide reciever than anything. Are our LB's supposed to cover them?

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by SESupergenius

I've watched several games and Sharper did get beat few times, shocked would not be the word I would use. I've seen more 3rd down completions by the other teams 3rd wide reciever than anything. Are our LB's supposed to cover them?

Well, yeah a lot of times they are. Frankly I don't like it very much either. It is fine IMO to have LB's covering WR's in the 1st 10 yds and covering RB's and TE's further, but lots of times last year and several times this preseason (I think there was one where Babin was in coverage 20+ yds down field on a WR) we leave LB's too long in coverage on WR's IMO. I don't care if Greenwood, Derrick Johnson whoever is as fast in a 40 yd as a WR or CB, they aren't built the same and just can't match up that long.

[HardKnockTexan]

Capers and Fangio do a good job of calling the right defense. Almost every time a team brings in a 3rd WR they send the nickle package onto the field. Idealy, this would put a LB on a TE and a Nickleback on a WR. The problem with this package last season is that the only LB that could cover was Wong. Foreman and Sharper were far too slow to be productive in coverage and Babin was learning a completley new possition on the fly. This year with our new speedy defense im thinking those 3rd and long plays that went for first downs far too often last season will be dramitically decreased.

[GP]

I am pleased with our defensive backfield.

I am less pleased with our LBs and defensive down linemen. I think the LB play will be better than last year, which isn't hard to accomplish. I also think our defensive line will be a little better than last year.

It's just time to accept the facts: Most of our "core" Texans that we acquired at the beginning of our team's formation (Sharper, Glenn, Gary Walker, etc.) were in their prime...now, they are fading quickly as aging veterans who are injury prone and losing a step as the experts would say.

Our future cannot be built upon those players. They allowed us to at least be a little competitive with the other well-established and well-stocked NFL teams. The torch is passing, and Dunta Robinson is the leader of our defense if you ask me. It starts with him. he has that rare ability to change the flow of the game. Shockingly, Marcus Coleman is also still a force to be reckoned with, but I see this as probably his last year with us.

I am pleased with the vast majority of our draft picks, especially with this year's crop of draftees (Mathis, Morency, TJ, etc.).

What I am not pleased with (very displeased) is the coaching and game strategy. It's well below the NFL standard, IMO. I respect Capers as a person of good character who has been a father to this team, but I think it's time for Capers to ride into the sunset. Keep a watch on Charlie Weis, head coach of the Irish, former coordinator for the Pats. His first game was a smashing success, and the consensus was that he called the perfect plays at the perfect time, befuddling the opposing team as he did when was with the Pats.

When a coach can have dual success in the NFL AND in college...you know it's not a fluke. He ought to be someone that McNair keeps an eye on. I dont know if Weis would leave since he just got there...but it's worth a shot.

The talent is here. The coaching and game planning are just horrid. I have no idea what to think about Chris Palmer. One day I hate him, and one day I think he's OK. I don't know if he's just a captive of the system and he can't always do what he wants to do, or if he's always 50-50 on his play calling.

One thing's for sure: This is absolutely the tell-all season for the Texans in terms of whether we continue to tweak...or if we make big moves.

It's too late to do anything now. Only a 5 or 6-game losing streak will get Capers and/or other personnel fired. Might as well sit back and see how it plays out. But Capers, IMO, is fighting a losing battle and needs to pass the torch at the end of this year.

[Porky]

Fangio was kicked out of Indy for making his defense to complicated, too much reading, and keying, and not enough turning the guys loose, and letting their athletic ability take over. He will be fired here for the same reason, and so will Capers at some point. I see way too much "read and react" and not enough in your face smashmouth football on both sides of the ball. I think that is a Capers trait, and I for one am about ready for a change should it not work again this year.

[bckey]

I think our secondary is suspect right now. P-Buc is a big ? right now. He was benched in Oakland for a while and then traded to us. Dunta is only in his 2nd year and while he is very good he will still make a few mistakes because of his inexperience. Put CC Brown behind them at SS and we can be burned with the pass if we can't get pressure on the QB quick.

Our LB's are a big ? also. I am not convinced that Babin/Wong/Greenwood/Peek are an upgrade over Babin/Sharper/Foreman/Wong. Speed wise yes but speed alone doesn't translate into an upgrade. We could have just cut Foreman, started Peek at ROLB, and moved Wong over to Foremans spot and kept Sharper. I never heard anybody dog out Sharper until after he was cut. Then a whole bunch of people started saying he was slow and declining and needed to be cut like they knew all along. Same with Glenn. The cuts we needed to make are ones that we couldn't because of contracts. GFunk and McKinney.

[powda]

Originally Posted by gpshafer_1976

What I am not pleased with (very displeased) is the coaching and game strategy. It's well below the NFL standard, IMO.


The talent is here. The coaching and game planning are just horrid.

is this like another post of yours where you question the texans D cause your not a fan of the 3-4 defense? what suggestions do you have for the coaching and "game strategy"? dont tell me you want a better player here or there....everybody wants better players everywhere...tell me what fundamental scheme flaws we have...and then tell me what great insight you could pass onto capers to help our team.

people are quick to point out problems but never answers.

Originally Posted by gpshafer_1976

It's too late to do anything now. Only a 5 or 6-game losing streak will get Capers and/or other personnel fired. Might as well sit back and see how it plays out. But Capers, IMO, is fighting a losing battle and needs to pass the torch at the end of this year.

the sky is falling huh?

[BigBull17]

But Sharper proves that all the experience doesnt make up for lack of speed. He was giving up big plays to TEs and RBs and his tackles were after 5-6yrd gains. I know our starters are unproven but raw speed can cover up mistakes, while reading the play right doesnt mean you will get there if your too slow. And a "locker room cancer" from Oakland means he must be a boy scout.

[Lucky]

Originally Posted by Porky

Fangio was kicked out of Indy for making his defense to complicated, too much reading, and keying, and not enough turning the guys loose, and letting their athletic ability take over...

What athletes are we talking about here? You mean superstars such as Chad Bratzke, Chad Cota, & Jeff Burris? Who could forget the great Idrees Bashir? The Colts finally turned those guys loose when Dungy took over. Turned them loose to the streets, anyway.

[BradK10]

.....

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by bckey

I never heard anybody dog out Sharper until after he was cut. Then a whole bunch of people started saying he was slow and declining and needed to be cut like they knew all along. Same with Glenn.

Then you weren't reading around here because both were criticized for their play during the 2004 season. Personally, I did not think the criticism of Glenn was accurate and think letting him go may very well turn out to be a mistake. Sharper on the other hand, I did feel and post was noticeably not playing as well as in prior years.

Originally Posted by bckey

I think our secondary is suspect right now. P-Buc is a big ? right now. He was benched in Oakland for a while and then traded to us. Dunta is only in his 2nd year and while he is very good he will still make a few mistakes because of his inexperience. Put CC Brown behind them at SS and we can be burned with the pass if we can't get pressure on the QB quick.

Our LB's are a big ? also. I am not convinced that Babin/Wong/Greenwood/Peek are an upgrade over Babin/Sharper/Foreman/Wong. Speed wise yes but speed alone doesn't translate into an upgrade. We could have just cut Foreman, started Peek at ROLB, and moved Wong over to Foremans spot and kept Sharper. I never heard anybody dog out Sharper until after he was cut. Then a whole bunch of people started saying he was slow and declining and needed to be cut like they knew all along. Same with Glenn. The cuts we needed to make are ones that we couldn't because of contracts. GFunk and McKinney.

I concur, Sharper was not even in the minds of the fans to be cut. Sure he a less than stellar year, but after battling his injury at the end of the year and playing next to Foreman (who was cut by the Raiders too) he should have been cut a little slack. Last I saw, he's a starting LB on a team with more hope for the playoffs than we are. Sharper bashing became popular once we found out he wasn't coming back. Just 2 seasons ago he was recognized by most fans around here as the main cog in our linebacking unit, now fans think he has lost a step. Hmmm, I guess Seattle didn't get that message.

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by SESupergenius

Sharper bashing became popular once we found out he wasn't coming back.

You are correct that a whole bunch of people came out for the 1st time after he was cut acting like he was bad to just average. On the other hand, there most certainly were people who observed during the season, i.e. when there wasn't even a hint of him being cut in the air, that he wasn't playing up to his previous seasons. No he did not fall all the way to bad LB, but he wasn't playing at his previous arguable/just outside pro-bowl level either.

[bckey]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

Then you weren't reading around here because both were criticized for their play during the 2004 season.

No I try to read on here every day.

[GP]

In response to Powda:

Look at our NFL rankings in pretty much all the defensive categories. We were 22nd in total defense last year. That puts our defense in the bottom one-third of the LEAGUE, let alone the AFC.

Nuff said. Stats speak the truth when people try to cloud the waters with baseless opinions. Your response is just the typical "If you love the Texans, then you must believe that everything is okay....no worries....the sky is not falling...etc."

The 3-4 as I have seen it in Houston (and as the stats speak) is not working. How in the world can three guys be expected to be outnumbered against AT LEAST five offensive lineman all game long? And then teams through a big FB or a big TE into the mix...sheesh! With four defensive linemen, IMO, you can better control the line of scrimmage. You still have LBs, and the way our defensive backfield plays...they're practically pseudo-linebackers with their ability to come up in run support (Marcus Coleman). I just don't see how we lose a lot of ground to offenses by having four down linemen. Heck, a lot of the times I see us lining up a LB as a fourth down linemen anyway.

Our whole team suffers because of our inability to effectively and consistently call a good game (play calling on offense). SO many three-and-outs make our defense stay on the field longer, giving opposing teams' defense too much rest time....which then leads to their defense coming out and laying the smackdown on our offense...over and over and over...it's a vicious cycle.

[Lucky]

Originally Posted by gpshafer_1976

In response to Powda:

Look at our NFL rankings in pretty much all the defensive categories. We were 22nd in total defense last year. That puts our defense in the bottom one-third of the LEAGUE, let alone the AFC.

Don't you think that's why the Texans made the personnel changes they've made this offseason. This isn't the same defense that was on the field in '04.

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by gpshafer_1976

IHow in the world can three guys be expected to be outnumbered against AT LEAST five offensive lineman all game long?

This is where your argument loses all credibility--the general idea that a 3-4 just can't work. Obviously it can work and in fact has been used by some of the best D's around. Acting like the 3-4 in inherently unworkable is the most obvious baseless opinion in this thread.

Try stepping back for even half a second and look at what you are talking about with the Texans

DL------------Walker--Payne--Smith
LB's---Babin--Greenwood---Wong---Peek

vs.

DL-------Babin----Walker-----TJohnson-----Peek
LB's--------Greenwood--Wong--Orr/Anderson

Guess what (or sheesh in your vernacular), your front 7 has less beef on the field with the 4-3 alignment (5LB sized guys and 2 DL) than the 3-4 alignment (4 LB sized guys and 3 DL). Changing the position names on the roster for Babin and Peek doesn't make them bigger.

SO many three-and-outs make our defense stay on the field longer, giving opposing teams' defense too much rest time....which then leads to their defense coming out and laying the smackdown on our offense...over and over and over...it's a vicious cycle.

The Texans were 14th in the league in 1st downs last year. The problem wasn't 3 and outs so much as it was marching 50 yards instead of 70. Also, the Texans D was on the field just 1 sec. more per game than the O--i.e. exactly the same amount of time as opposing D's. But don't let those stats mess with your vicious cycle.

[Honoring Earl 34]

The most dominant defense in recent memory was the 85 Bears . They had talent and a good scheme . So is it the talent or the scheme with the Texans ?

New England is not as dominating but they win . They are a very bright defense who can even fool Manning with a lot of looks . So are we not that bright of a team ?

[HJam72]

I would say the the 3-4 is supposed or hoped to have 3 guys take up 5 blockers, but it USUALLY only takes up 4, allowing the 5th to take on a blitzing linebacker. Otherwise, the 3-4 would bring forth a rediculously large number of sacks. If there is a second blitzing LB, he is at least slowed down by a blocking back. The 4-3, on the other hand, is no better. The linemen are smaller on average and there is one less LB. In the end, the 4-3 is slightly better against the run and the 3-4 is slightly better against the pass. The 4-3 is easier to master, but confuses the offense less often. It's all a bunch of trade-offs. It seems to me that sacks in a 4-3 are usually accomplished by the DEs, but they are, for the most part, blocked to the outside in a circle pattern. Going inside for most of them is pointless. The 3-4 is said to be better for pass coverage, but that is partly created by having an extra LB in coverage, limiting the pass rush. It is also partly said to be better for pass coverage by confusing the QB, but this can also be confusing to the LBs themselves when professional Wide-outs are running well executed routes. IT'S ALL A TRADE-OFF.

I say we use whatever we have the best personnel for, keeping in mind that experience at their positions is VERY important.

[powda]

Originally Posted by gpshafer_1976

In response to Powda:
Look at our NFL rankings in pretty much all the defensive categories. We were 22nd in total defense last year.

Originally Posted by gpshafer_1976

Stats speak the truth when people try to cloud the waters with baseless opinions.

so injuries have no impact on the game? so starting 3 rookies has no impact on the game? so 2 players starting at new poistions has no impact on the game?

im not an appologist. 22nd isnt good enough for me either but if your going to be critical look to why we got those results. dont call for a new coach out of "whoever university" cause your buddy told ya they looked good.

the logic you missed was...the coaches had questions about the secondary and rightly so...in order to safeguard that the lbs were in coverage more often.

and i find it odd how people have all of a sudden forgotten how good our d looked at the end of last season.

i have yet to see you back up an opinion. all youve actually said was you think the 3-4 is flawed. you think we're destined for failure cause your a bigger fan of the 4-3 then the 3-4. and yet...our opinions are baseless.

Originally Posted by gpshafer_1976

Your response is just the typical "If you love the Texans, then you must believe that everything is okay....no worries....the sky is not falling...etc."

and your response is "good god, jesus help us because we havent looked so good in preseason. they're not playing the defense i want them to....waaaaaaaa."

gimme a break. im so sick of reading this **** over and over again before the season even starts.

Originally Posted by gpshafer_1976

The 3-4 as I have seen it in Houston (and as the stats speak) is not working. How in the world can three guys be expected to be outnumbered against AT LEAST five offensive lineman all game long?

3 guys arent expected to outnumber 5. the 3-4 provides more coverage and blitz possibilities. they know that 4 th player is comming but where from? and those 3 are expected to hold up blockers long enough to allow the lbs to pursue unhindered. theyre not expected to domminate anyone and you shouldnt assume they will.

and your 1 jewel of knowledge to pass on to capers was "keep the offense on the field longer then 3 downs" ?

brilliant

stop sobbing over spilled milk.

Originally Posted by gpshafer_1976

it's a vicious cycle.

have you tried medication?