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Old 12-14-2010   #1
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Default 3rd and short...

I've been a Kubiak supporter from day 1. I thought he should've been our first head coach. I was ecstatic the day he was brought in. I'm still hesitant to say it's time to fire him.

But the head-scratcher and maybe page-turning events for me were last night. Every time we were in a 3rd and short situation, down by two scores, and in 4-down territory (between opponents' 30 and 45), Kubiak chose to - PASS?!? You have the NFL's leading rusher and on 3rd and 2, 3rd and 3, 3rd and 4. If you pass and miss, you're now in a CERTAIN passing situation. If you run it, and get the 1st or within a yard, you can run OR throw. It just didn't make sense to me and drove me nuts every time it happened (4 times, I think, and we converted once out of those).


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Old 12-14-2010   #2
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Default Re: 3rd and short...

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Originally Posted by DerekLee1 View Post
I've been a Kubiak supporter from day 1. I thought he should've been our first head coach. I was ecstatic the day he was brought in. I'm still hesitant to say it's time to fire him.

But the head-scratcher and maybe page-turning events for me were last night. Every time we were in a 3rd and short situation, down by two scores, and in 4-down territory (between opponents' 30 and 45), Kubiak chose to - PASS?!? You have the NFL's leading rusher and on 3rd and 2, 3rd and 3, 3rd and 4. If you pass and miss, you're now in a CERTAIN passing situation. If you run it, and get the 1st or within a yard, you can run OR throw. It just didn't make sense to me and drove me nuts every time it happened (4 times, I think, and we converted once out of those).


I don't have a problem with the passing in that situation, but I do have a problem with:

1. Instead of a quick play, they drop way the hell back, risking a sack.

2. Throwing to covered receivers short of the yardage needed to pick up the first down.
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Old 12-14-2010   #3
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Default Re: 3rd and short...

If I'm not mistaken the Texans are #1 in the NFL in 3rd and short situations.

Gruden said something about it last night right as we converted one with a running play.
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Old 12-14-2010   #4
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Default Re: 3rd and short...

Mixing it up here and there doesn't bother me, as long as the playcalling isn't predictable.


My beef last night was our drive in OT. Backed up to our own endzone with a completely new quarter we chose to pass. That didn't worked so we passed again. That time the pass worked, but the wrong team caught the ball.

Why not run with Arian in that situation? You can be aggressive by running the ball as well! I would be annoyed but would completely understand running it three times and punting in that situation. At least run it ONCE!
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Old 12-14-2010   #5
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Default Re: 3rd and short...

He forgot he had time. Was used to having to go hurry up. Honestly, Kubiak constantly out thinks himself.
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Old 12-14-2010   #6
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Default Re: 3rd and short...

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
If I'm not mistaken the Texans are #1 in the NFL in 3rd and short situations.

Gruden said something about it last night right as we converted one with a running play.
Gruden said that the Texans are either 16 of 16, or 17 of 17 on 3rd and 1 situations. We are the only team in the league that is perfect in that situation.
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Old 12-14-2010   #7
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Default Re: 3rd and short...

That didn't bother me. I was just a little puzzled by not running on 1st or 2nd on the last drive of the game, backed way the hell up.
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Old 12-14-2010   #8
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Default Re: 3rd and short...

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Originally Posted by TheCD View Post
Mixing it up here and there doesn't bother me, as long as the playcalling isn't predictable.


My beef last night was our drive in OT. Backed up to our own endzone with a completely new quarter we chose to pass. That didn't worked so we passed again. That time the pass worked, but the wrong team caught the ball.

Why not run with Arian in that situation? You can be aggressive by running the ball as well! I would be annoyed but would completely understand running it three times and punting in that situation. At least run it ONCE!
You would understand running it three times then punting? That would have likely given it to the Ravens close to mid field to start their next drive. The offense just had two drives of 99 & 95 yards resulting in touchdowns. Both those drives they came out passing in that situation & it worked both times. I could see running it on first or second down to get them moving but don't understand the run it three times then punt method.
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Old 12-14-2010   #9
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Default Re: 3rd and short...

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
If I'm not mistaken the Texans are #1 in the NFL in 3rd and short situations.

Gruden said something about it last night right as we converted one with a running play.
I'm talking about SPECIFICALLY in 4-down territory, not just ANY 3rd downs. If you're 3rd and short from your own side of the field, I have no problem throwing it. 3rd and short in field goal range, again - no problem throwing it. But when you're in 4-down situations, if you throw it on 3rd and more than a yard, it's a make or break.
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Old 12-14-2010   #10
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Default Re: 3rd and short...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey View Post
If I'm not mistaken the Texans are #1 in the NFL in 3rd and short situations.

Gruden said something about it last night right as we converted one with a running play.
They were 16/16 coming into this game in converting 3rd and <=1 yard. Thats #1 in the NFL.
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Old 12-14-2010   #11
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Default Re: 3rd and short...

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Originally Posted by DerekLee1 View Post
I've been a Kubiak supporter from day 1. I thought he should've been our first head coach. I was ecstatic the day he was brought in. I'm still hesitant to say it's time to fire him.

But the head-scratcher and maybe page-turning events for me were last night. Every time we were in a 3rd and short situation, down by two scores, and in 4-down territory (between opponents' 30 and 45), Kubiak chose to - PASS?!? You have the NFL's leading rusher and on 3rd and 2, 3rd and 3, 3rd and 4. If you pass and miss, you're now in a CERTAIN passing situation. If you run it, and get the 1st or within a yard, you can run OR throw. It just didn't make sense to me and drove me nuts every time it happened (4 times, I think, and we converted once out of those).


Yessss, YESSSSSS.......let your frustration out and welcome!!! Our numbers grow strong! Soon we will be UNSTOPABLE bwahahaha!!
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Old 12-14-2010   #12
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Default Re: 3rd and short...

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They were 16/16 coming into this game in converting 3rd and <=1 yard. Thats #1 in the NFL.
I think the OP means 3rd and 5 or so, when we're in that grey area between punt and field goal (40 yard line). I noticed the same thing and was screaming at the TV when we threw incomplete on 3rd and medium then went for it on 4th down, instead of a run or screen to make it 4th and short.
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Old 12-14-2010   #13
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Default Re: 3rd and short...

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Originally Posted by run-david-run View Post
I think the OP means 3rd and 5 or so, when we're in that grey area between punt and field goal (40 yard line). I noticed the same thing and was screaming at the TV when we threw incomplete on 3rd and medium then went for it on 4th down, instead of a run or screen to make it 4th and short.
They are #6 in the league at converting on 3rd down .... Thats pretty darn good.


I do question some of the routes run on 3rd and 5-7 yards tho. Seems quite often that they run routes that are short of the sticks.

More likely than not the coaches call plays that would put recievers beyond the sticks in the majority of those cases .... The question is why are the routes short of the mark ?

Are the recievers simply making mistakes ?

Is it recievers having to break off routes due to heavy pressure or just very good coverage on those routes that are beyond the mark .... in those instances you would have to give credit to the opposing defense.
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Old 12-14-2010   #14
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Default Re: 3rd and short...

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
They are #6 in the league at converting on 3rd down .... Thats pretty darn good.


I do question some of the routes run on 3rd and 5-7 yards tho. Seems quite often that they run routes that are short of the sticks.

More likely than not the coaches call plays that would put recievers beyond the sticks in the majority of those cases .... The question is why are the routes short of the mark ?

Are the recievers simply making mistakes ?

Is it recievers having to break off routes due to heavy pressure or just very good coverage on those routes that are beyond the mark .... in those instances you would have to give credit to the opposing defense.
My complaint is that we should treat those 3rd down plays like 2nd down, knowing full well we'll go for it on 4th down if we don't make it. It just gives me the impression that the coaches don't think things out the way they should.
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Old 12-14-2010   #15
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Default Re: 3rd and short...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
They are #6 in the league at converting on 3rd down .... Thats pretty darn good.


I do question some of the routes run on 3rd and 5-7 yards tho. Seems quite often that they run routes that are short of the sticks.

More likely than not the coaches call plays that would put recievers beyond the sticks in the majority of those cases .... The question is why are the routes short of the mark ?

Are the recievers simply making mistakes ?

Is it recievers having to break off routes due to heavy pressure or just very good coverage on those routes that are beyond the mark .... in those instances you would have to give credit to the opposing defense.
I would imagine Schaub knows beforehand that they are going to go for it on fourth down. He sees nobody open beyond the first down marker because the defense is covering well and dumps the ball off to the open receiver (like the JJ catch in the fourth) making the fourth down attempt much more manageable since it would be a 4th & 2 instead of a 4th & 7.
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Old 12-16-2010   #16
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Default Re: 3rd and short...

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Originally Posted by run-david-run View Post
I think the OP means 3rd and 5 or so, when we're in that grey area between punt and field goal (40 yard line). I noticed the same thing and was screaming at the TV when we threw incomplete on 3rd and medium then went for it on 4th down, instead of a run or screen to make it 4th and short.
YES. But even closer. 3rd and 4, 3rd and 3, and you drop back to pass in that grey area. I don't GET it!! Arian Foster is #1 in the league at converting 3rd downs. Even if he doesn't convert, you're that much closer! I don't like running on 4th and MORE than a yard (a pass attempt gives you WAY more options), but on 3rd and LESS THAN 5, you RUN the ball in the grey area!!! I appreciate that Kubiak has confidence in Schaub and the passing game, but come ON. You MUST follow the statistics in that situation!

BTW, I'm not a "give the ball to Arian Foster every down" guy. I GET why they pass it in most situations. Great QB, great receiving corps, best WR in the NFL, etc. But on 3rd and short in the grey area, hand it OFF. In 4-down territory, you have TWO chances. An incomplete hurts way worse than ONLY getting "a yard or two".
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Old 12-16-2010   #17
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Default Re: 3rd and short...

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You would understand running it three times then punting?
Yes, I would have. Our running game was working, we were running on them well. When a defense is tired, you run the ball, time permitting. That is the moment in which you show the other team you are better than them. It's akin to MJD killing us last year by running the ball over and over and telling us we're going to like it. At least with 3 straight runs we are keeping ourselves in a low-risk high-reward situation.

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Originally Posted by JCTexan View Post
Both those drives they came out passing in that situation & it worked both times.
This is exactly why I would have run the ball. They knew we wanted to come out passing and try and keep the tempo up. They were waiting for it. Kubiak said that the last play was a play that we had run earlier in the game, and the CB caught Schaub looking.

The reason I would have run it 3 straight times is because I had faith that our team was out-manning theirs. I felt that 3 straight runs would have accounted for at least 1 first down. If not, then we would have failed trying to do the thing that was, IMO, the smarter idea.
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Old 12-16-2010   #18
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Default Re: 3rd and short...

I don't get people some times.

We are averaging 24 pts a game, we're on a losing streak from hell, we have a terrible pass defense that is in the bottom 3 of any category you can put a number on...

Meanwhile, we score on 5 consecutive drives, convert 3rd and short with consistency, as someone pointed out 6th best and what do some people look at to change? The QB and the playcalling on offense? How in the world does that enter your mind? I can understand if you want to criticize the very last drive and the playcalling there because it resulted in failure... but throughout the season you are questioning one of the few things this team does as well as almost anything in the league.

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