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Old 09-05-2005   #1
LBC_Justin
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Default ESPN needs to get their story straight regarding Carr

I just read ESPN Mag about the NFL breaking down every team.
http://mag.espn.go.com/ActiveMagazin...PN_AM&page=104
What bothered me was this comment about David Carr...."But the QB's poor decisionmaking hasn't helped."

Then there is this article.....
[i]
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/colum..._kc&id=2142580
written by KC Joyner

I just finished reading PFW writer Jeff Reynolds' piece on the QB class of 2002 (David Carr, Joey Harrington and Patrick Ramsey) and thought it would be interesting to take a look at their 2004 performance metrics and see what story they told.

When I break down game tape, I am looking to answer specific questions that the standard play-by-play sheet doesn't measure. For QBs, some of the basic questions I am looking to answer include:

How often does a QB throw a short, medium, or deep pass? What is his completion percentage at each of these levels? (For more on the passing tree, click here)
How often does a QB throw to an open receiver, and how often does he force the ball into coverage?
How often does a QB make a bad decision? Does he force passes into coverage? Does he try to throw the ball while being sacked? Does he stare at receivers?
How accurate are a QB's passes? We can easily track a QB's completion percentage, but I also want to know how often he throws a pass the receiver can catch.

So which is it? Is Carr in the top THREE in the NFL in Decisionmaking or Carr's "poor decisionmaking hasn't helped."
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Old 09-05-2005   #2
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Carr's poor decision making hasnt helped
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Old 09-05-2005   #3
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Carr's poor decision making hasn't helped. Anything else I can answer for you, just let me know.
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Old 09-05-2005   #4
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My only comment KC Joyner is that he must get a different NFL feed than the rest of us. While there are some more obvious situations, the games I get over air do not show me enough information to determine if Carr stared at one WR or if the Wr on the opposite side of the field would have been a better choice.

Unless he is looking a coaches tape (an endzone shot high enough to see the whole field) or watching in a stadium live there is no way to determine some things he is claiming to determine by looking at an over air game.
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Old 09-05-2005   #5
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well as a sportswriter for ESPN.. im betting he has access to tape that we normal folks dont.

but anyone who watches the Texans for a while can see that Carr has huge potential if you get the right personel around him and give him a little time to develop.
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Old 09-05-2005   #6
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One's a short, simplistic summary from a guy who's probably watched the Texans one or two times his entire life. The other's a complex, in-depth feature that actually considers analysis of every throw Carr makes in coming to the conclusion. You tell me which is probably better. He's not in the top three in the league in decision-making - every statistic has its flaws - but he's one of the better ones, and to categorize it as "poor" is absurd and simplistic.
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Old 09-05-2005   #7
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Honestly, I think neither of the ESPN is correct. For its flaws, the passer rating on Carr seems to portray an accuarate picture. Mid-level QB (16th) who is improving. More than poor or belonging in top 3, from what I have looked at Carr is inconsistent in decision-making and accuaracy.

Notes on KC Joyner, from what I have been able to dig up on him here and there , he is a free lance guy who really has no significant back ground in playing or coaching football. While i applaud his effort, it is very flawed to call him more accurate than many of you guys who, like him, are fans that have watched a lot of football. The only difference is he has a calculator and couple of definitions he deems important.
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Old 09-05-2005   #8
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I think he's the one that got semi-famous in the football world for his gigantic book that was released a little while back. I guess that got him a spot writing for espn.
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Old 09-05-2005   #9
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So who among us is qualified to make an assertion?

Heck, I give him an "A" just for actually creating a scale and then following it by charting QBs performance based upon his formula.

But, alas, most of people's arguments of why somebody is "good" or "bad" seems to be more personal opinion and favoritism (or lack thereof) of a player.

And then when somebody actually tries to GASP! create a standard of measure, and then attempts to apply that standard objectively to each person being examined, that person gets torn a new one and called a heretic for his findings.

Danged if you do, danged if you don't.
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Old 09-05-2005   #10
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Default Carr and KC

KC's stuff is not a bad way to look at player from a fantasy football stand point. I hav esubscribed and like is findings.

With that said to quote KC's methods and transfer them to a debate on how Carr perfoms is an outright reach.

Carr does not make many bad decisions because he does on e of the following: quick pass to AJ, dump off to DD, rush to the sideline, get sacked or throw it away.

My problem with Carr are his quick decisions, not his bad decisions. In fact I would like to see him take more chances downfield.
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Old 09-05-2005   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
KC's stuff is not a bad way to look at player from a fantasy football stand point. I hav esubscribed and like is findings.

With that said to quote KC's methods and transfer them to a debate on how Carr perfoms is an outright reach.

Carr does not make many bad decisions because he does on e of the following: quick pass to AJ, dump off to DD, rush to the sideline, get sacked or throw it away.

My problem with Carr are his quick decisions, not his bad decisions. In fact I would like to see him take more chances downfield.
Nice posting here. Objective on both Joyner and Carr.
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Old 09-05-2005   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpshafer_1976
So who among us is qualified to make an assertion?

Heck, I give him an "A" just for actually creating a scale and then following it by charting QBs performance based upon his formula.

But, alas, most of people's arguments of why somebody is "good" or "bad" seems to be more personal opinion and favoritism (or lack thereof) of a player.

And then when somebody actually tries to GASP! create a standard of measure, and then attempts to apply that standard objectively to each person being examined, that person gets torn a new one and called a heretic for his findings.

Danged if you do, danged if you don't.
If a person is a scientist or academic he understands that his methods, findings and qualifications are under scrunity. Effort and intent don't make his numbers any better than standard norms of judging QB's performance.
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Old 09-05-2005   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpshafer_1976
Danged if you do, danged if you don't.

Write for ESPN, do we?
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Old 09-05-2005   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Astros
Where does it say "Carr's poor decisions haven't helped"? Am I blind or does it not say that?
It is in the ESPN Magazine article. I think you have to be a "insider" subscriber to read it online. Or you need to go buy the magazine.

Bottomline: When you consider the pressure Carr has been under and how little time he has had to make decisions you can't really blame the guy for getting rid of the ball quickly (He did it for survival). Considering that he had done a great job of not making very many big mistakes.

As "our QB" and the guy we watch on a weekly basis we tend to over analyis and over scrutize him. Not say it is wrong, it happens to every teams QB. But we can't see the big picture and can't see how good Carr actually is at working with the tools he has been given. For a young QB not making a lot of big mistakes is very important.
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Old 09-05-2005   #15
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ESPN is in the business of getting people who are interested in sports to watch their network, read their magazine, and go to their website. In order to make this happen they and the writers who work for them can and will say anything necessary to get your attention. They'll say one thing and then contradict it on the very next page if need be.

This isn't to say that the articles might not be good or interesting. I read them too all the time. I just don't think that they have much in the way of insight where things like this are involved and I don't think that even matters much.
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