The All Encompassing FIRE KUBIAK thread

[JB]

Originally Posted by Hervoyel

It's not impossible for Justice to be right about something. Improbable I'll admit but not impossible. With something as obvious as this subject I'd think his chances are even better to be right.

Call me a lame-ass mediocre fan I guess because Justice was spot-on with that article.

Yeah, I probably came on a bit strong with my hate for Justice there. I just can't get myself to read anything he writes objectively.

[Hervoyel]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

It's all about perspective.

I don't think you can compare our franchise to those. They've had success, they had vets, who knew how to be vets. If you put Kubiak on any of those teams when those coaches took over, no doubt in my mind they would have had as much success if not more.

We didn't have anything. What we did get in the expansion draft, Capers & Casserly pretty much dumped before the 2-14 season.

Compare this club to the Detroit Lions of 2002, the 49ers of 2002, the Cardinals of 2002. & what we've got here isn't very much different.

The Cardinals of course seems to be the best franchise of that bunch. Denny Green IMHO left a much better team for Wisenhunt than Capers left for Casserly. I don't know that Green couldn't have taken the team Wisenhunt took to the Super Bowl. I think Green was let go to early & that team would look better now, if Green was still there. Wisenhunt (IMHO) isn't as good as putting a team together (at least he hasn't shown it) than Green was.

That's the fear I have, of losing Kubiak. This team is good enough (IMHO) to get to the play-offs & make a strong push for the Super Bowl. Looks mediocre now, I know.... we're dealing with adversity (everybody does, every season) we're getting ours now, & I think it'll all work out in the end. We'll make a Super Bowl push & I like Kubiak & Smith keeping that going next year, and the year after, and the year after.

I liked what Marinelli was able to do in Detroit. I don't agree with his firing. But they've been messing around with coaches while keeping a bad GM & they hadn't been able to build the foundation a franchise needs until Marinelli got there. I like what Shwartz is doing there. I think he put together a good draft, had a great offseason & I think he will do well if they allow him the time to finish.

I liked what Mike Nolan was doing in San Francisco but they fired him too early (expectations too high). I like Singletary, I think he would have had more success taking over a more veteran team. If he gets fired in San Fran because of what they are going through now (which I don't think they would be going through with Nolan) he may not get a chance to be a head coach again.

This is our 9th season. The most success we've had in the last 9 years, is a 9-7 season. It doesn't make sense to compare Kubiak to Ryan who took over a 9-7 team with pro bowl guards & a history & tradition we can't even compare....

Or an Atlanta Falcons team that had been to the NFC championship game in that 9 year period. Or a Miami team with a top 10 defense.

(Emphasis... well let's just say "it's on me")




That is why you fail.

If you're sitting here in 2010 and telling me that you can't hold our franchise up to the same standard that the other 31 are held up to because we have only had 9 drafts and 9 shots at free agency and because we've only had approximately a decade to establish an identity then I think you need to turn around, go back out that door, and think about the nature of what you're selling here.

Maybe we should just take a little trip to namby-pamby land to go find the Texans some confidence and an identity?

[houstonspartan]

Originally Posted by Hervoyel

(Emphasis... well "it's on me")




That is why you fail.

If you're sitting here in 2010 and telling me that you can't hold our franchise up to the same standard that the other 31 are held up to because we have only had 9 drafts and 9 shots at free agency and because we've only had approximately a decade to establish an identity then I think you need to turn around, go back out that door, and think about the nature of what you're selling here.

Maybe we should just take a little trip to namby-pamby land to go find the Texans some confidence and an identity?

I think Thunder is just on here just for ****s and giggles, and isn't really interested in serious, rational football talk. He's clearly saying and posting things to get people riled up. He lost me with saying that Detroit shouldn't have fired its coach after not winning a single game in one season.

He likes Rod Marinelli, who made history with the first winless season, but doesn't like Andy Reid and Ken Wisenhunt, coaches that have had massive success.

Um, Ok.

[gafftop]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Because Ward has shown to perform extremely well in those same situations.

Ward is not Foster. Foster did not ask for a blow, he was taken out. I think it is very possible if the same 2 plays were called with Foster in the outcome would have been different. The most important thing is you don't take the best player out during that situation. I repeat Kubiak has no sense of URGENCY. This team has no sense of URGENCY. Kubiak wants to save for the future. He wants that strong finish when it really doesn't matter any more. A win is a win. JUST WIN BABY!

On the other hand I don't think you get rid of him midyear unless the players quit on him or he commits an unpardonable act and that has not happened yet. I think if they go 0-4 in the next 4 games you may need to consider it if the coach you want is available. Don't laugh 0-4 is very possible. 1-3 is probable. I hope all of you get to post at how idiotic my post was 4 games from now. thanks

[Hervoyel]

Originally Posted by gafftop

Ward is not Foster. Foster did not ask for a blow, he was taken out. I think it is very possible if the same 2 plays were called with Foster in the outcome would have been different. The most important thing is you don't take the best player out during that situation. I repeat Kubiak has no sense of URGENCY. This team has no sense of URGENCY. Kubiak wants to save for the future. He wants that strong finish when it really doesn't matter any more. A win is a win. JUST WIN BABY!

On the other hand I don't think you get rid of him midyear unless the players quit on him or he commits an unpardonable act and that has not happened yet. I think if they go 0-4 in the next 4 games you may need to consider it if the coach you want is available. Don't laugh 0-4 is very possible. 1-3 is probable. I hope all of you get to post at how idiotic my post was 4 games from now. thanks

See, that's where I'm coming from. I absolutely believe that now, following the San Diego loss we are looking at a team that's going nowhere in a season that will end below .500 by at least a game, maybe two.

I believe we're looking at a coach who should be in his last year.

I also believe that I will be more than happy to be pointed at and laughed at for saying that if we're all trying to find playoff tickets at the end of the year.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Hervoyel

If you're sitting here in 2010 and telling me that you can't hold our franchise up to the same standard that the other 31 are held to...

Not at all what I said.

The Packers, Saints and Vikings hired head coaches the same off-season the Texans hired Kubiak, and they've each gone to the playoffs twice.

The Cardinals, Falcons, Ravens and Dolphins changed coaches since Kubiak was hired, and they've all been to the playoffs.

I said don't compare us to those teams.

I said compare us to the Cardinals (not since Wisenhunt took over, but since Denny Green took over & I think you'll see a lot of similarities), the Lions, or the 49ers.

[Hervoyel]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Not at all what I said.



I said don't compare us to those teams.

I said compare us to the Cardinals (not since Wisenhunt took over, but since Denny Green took over & I think you'll see a lot of similarities), the Lions, or the 49ers.

And the simple fact is the Texans come up short when compared to all but a handful of teams over the last 9 years. The last thing in the world anyone can offer as an excuse after 5 drafts and 5 years of free agency is "But look what I had to start with".

Gary could have coached any of those teams to a bright, shiny .500 record and a bunch of bone-headed highlights and "It's on me" press conference moments. Not one thing more.

The only comparison I'm interested in making with the Texans is to teams that win consistently and contend for the title year in and year out. If we're not one of those then we've failed. If Bob McNair doesn't see it that way then he's cut out to be a profitable NFL owner but not a good one or a winning one.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Hervoyel

And the simple fact is the Texans come up short when compared to all but a handful of teams over the last 9 years. The last thing in the world anyone can offer as an excuse after 5 drafts and 5 years of free agency is "But look what I had to start with".

If we're going to ***** about the mans performance after 5 years, let's wait till after 5 years.

[eriadoc]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

If we're going to ***** about the mans performance after 5 years, let's wait till after 5 years.

I was bitching about it after four years, so I see no reason to stop now. There's a difference between bitching about his performance and demanding an immediate firing. I ***** about Schaub's performance from time to time as well. If he ever gets to the point where he stays mediocre for 72 games in a row, I'll probably suggest he be fired after the season as well.

[Hervoyel]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

If we're going to ***** about the mans performance after 5 years, let's wait till after 5 years.

"No"

He's had 5 drafts to fill the roster up with players he wanted. He's had 5 years to install his system in 5 training camps. I'm bitching about his performance right now after he has had 5 years to work on "the product". He's had his 5 years to get ready, now we're seeing what he's concocted over that time and it's fecal in nature.

We're told that you can't fix anything in the middle of a season (essentially correct). You can't fire a head coach and expect any sort of radical change. You can't find any good players who don't already have homes. You can't change a system in the week between games.

Gary's 5 years are up TK. He's failed. I don't need to see the play 8 more times to know that it sucks.

[Thorn]

Why compare the Texans to anyone? Who cares what other teams are doing or have done with their coaches? All I care about is the fact that the HOUSTON Texans have yet to be in the playoffs.

What other teams are doing may piss me off, but has nothing to do with the fact the Texans can't get it togeather enough to even be a wildcard.

[TexansSeminole]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

The only difference between me & the soapers, is that I'm willing to give him till the end of the year to prove what kind of coach he is. The soapers feel they have seen enough.


Nothing wrong with that.

I agree, there is nothing wrong with that. I am giving him until the end of the season as well, I am just convinced that this will be another 8-8 or worse team already. I could be wrong though, of course.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by eriadoc

I was bitching about it after four years, so I see no reason to stop now. There's a difference between bitching about his performance and demanding an immediate firing. I ***** about Schaub's performance from time to time as well. If he ever gets to the point where he stays mediocre for 72 games in a row, I'll probably suggest he be fired after the season as well.

Are you bitching about what he has done in 5 years?? Or are you bitching about what he has done to date?

I have no problem with the latter.

Originally Posted by Hervoyel

And the simple fact is the Texans come up short when compared to all but a handful of teams over the last 9 years. The last thing in the world anyone can offer as an excuse after 5 drafts and 5 years of free agency is "But look what I had to start with".

If we're going to ***** about the mans performance after 5 years, let's wait till after 5 years.

Originally Posted by Hervoyel

"No"


Gary's 5 years are up TK. He's failed. I don't need to see the play 8 more times to know that it sucks.

I believe different.

[DexmanC]

Those of us who've felt the party was over after four years, have the
right to CONTINUE "bitching," as the fifth continues to prove a collossal
waste of time if we're evaluating the competency of Kubiak.

We knew it after four years, and nothing has changed in the fifth.

Start 3-1.
Go 1-3 since.
We have a .500 record, halfway through this predictable-ass year.

Unlike previous years, there are no creampuffs to save the Texans'
record after they flame out of the playoff race. When they're 5-7, or worse,
there will be no *miracle* winning streak to mask the stench of this season.

Where are all the "We're 3-1, and still leading the division" people?
Weren't a lot of us "soapers" forecasting this current 1-3 mess
we're in? Can't we use HOW the team plays, to evaluate how they
will *most likely* do against *real* teams?

We've got 8 more games in a row, *ALL* against *real* teams.
Ugly, ugly finish to this turd of the 2010 season. I've seen NOTHING
to make me believe otherwise, and will be ECSTATIC if I'm proven wrong.

....I just don't think I will be proven wrong.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by DexmanC

Those of us who've felt the party was over after four years, have the
right to CONTINUE "bitching," as the fifth continues to prove a collossal
waste of time if we're evaluating the competency of Kubiak.

We knew it after four years, and nothing has changed in the fifth.

***** all you want, I don't care...... gives me someone to talk to.

I'm just saying don't ***** about what he did after 5 years, till after he's had 5 years.

If you want to ***** about what he will do in 5 years, ***** about what he will do in 5 years.

[GuerillaBlack]

***** ***** ***** ***** ***** *****

[Hervoyel]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Are you bitching about what he has done in 5 years?? Or are you bitching about what he has done to date?

I have no problem with the latter.




If we're going to ***** about the mans performance after 5 years, let's wait till after 5 years.


I believe different.

Splitting hairs.

[Double Barrel]

72 games is a big enough sample to evaluate a head coach in today's NFL.

[houstonspartan]

Originally Posted by Hervoyel

Splitting hairs.

No ****. His rationale is ridiculus. 4.5 years into a five year same is like 75 percent. Far enough time by which to judge.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Hervoyel

Splitting hairs.

Not really, because you're (not just you) upset & disappointed with this team because we haven't been to the play-offs in 9 years.

& we don't know if that is true or not.

I've asked the question many different ways on this board, & it doesn't appear that playing good football is even a concern, as long as we get into the play-offs.

We could have been 9-7 last year, beating the Jets & losing to the Sea-Hawks & everyone would have been thrilled, even though we weren't playing any better.

We don't know what's going to happen over the next 8 weeks, San Chez & LT might miss the rest of the year, Ed Reed, Ngata & Ray Lewis may miss a few games, The Cleveland Browns might win their division, we may very well win 10 games & make the play-offs.

Jets & Ravens only won 9 games last year, same as us. They look high on the hog right now, but you don't know what's going to happen in the next 8 weeks. They might hit a 4 game losing streak (like the Giants did last year). The Colts luck might run out. Randy Moss might tear that team apart.

We might win 7 of the next 8 games. There's only 3 top 10 offenses on our schedule from here on out (compared to the 6 in the first 8 games)...... Kubiak may figure out how to stick with the run game whether it looks like it's working or not. Jets & Baltimore are the only teams with truly scary defenses, the Titans are as bad as we are. & Philly keeps changing QBs every week, that powder keg may blow up in their face by the time we play them.

There are still 8 games to go.