Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-23-2005   #21
Corrosion
Hall of Fame
 
Corrosion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Northwest Houston
Age: 45
Posts: 30,359
Rep Power: 144827 Corrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Watching Ragone last pre-season and again when both Carr and Banks were out .... he looked HORRIBLE .
This season he looks like a totally different player . The time spent in NFL-E has helped his confidence immensely .

There seems to be no drop off between him and Banks .... But there is One problem , Ragone is a lefty . Not only does this change things for the O-line but when he throws the ball it puts a reverse spin on the ball in comparison to a righty throwing it which could affect the recievers . These are my only real concerns if Ragone were to have to play for an extended time .
Corrosion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2005   #22
infantrycak
Lead Moderator
 
infantrycak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Age: 46
Posts: 43,725
Rep Power: 225351 infantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via AIM to infantrycak
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by corrosion
There seems to be no drop off between him and Banks .... But there is One problem , Ragone is a lefty . Not only does this change things for the O-line but when he throws the ball it puts a reverse spin on the ball in comparison to a righty throwing it which could affect the recievers . These are my only real concerns if Ragone were to have to play for an extended time .
I'm not convinced the left-handed thing means as much as some people do, but if it does, it makes this stat comparison even worse:

Banks 9 comp. 21 atts 95 yds 42.9% comp 72.5 QB rating
Ragone 7 comp. 13 atts. 93 yds 53.8% comp 102.4 QB rating.

Now the sample is certainly too small to draw real conclusions. I don't distinctly remember Banks having accuracy problems prior to breaking his hand in the Atlanta game, but IMO he has looked miserable since coming back. Without accuracy, the veteran savy loses a lot of its benefit.
__________________
The Art of War
infantrycak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2005   #23
HardCoreTxn
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 228
Rep Power: 10 HardCoreTxn is ridin' the pine
Send a message via AIM to HardCoreTxn Send a message via MSN to HardCoreTxn Send a message via Yahoo to HardCoreTxn
Default

If Carr gets injured, we are screwed with eithier of these guys
__________________
!LETS GO TEXANS!
HardCoreTxn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2005   #24
the wonger need food
Hall of Fame
 
the wonger need food's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Houston
Age: 44
Posts: 2,562
Rep Power: 1340 the wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by corrosion
There seems to be no drop off between him and Banks .... But there is One problem , Ragone is a lefty . Not only does this change things for the O-line but when he throws the ball it puts a reverse spin on the ball in comparison to a righty throwing it which could affect the recievers . These are my only real concerns if Ragone were to have to play for an extended time .
There is only one problem here??? There is no possible way to drop off lower than Banks. Being a lefty will have no effect on Ragone's future in the NFL. It will be little things like not being able to get the ball to a wide open receiver in the end zone... against 3rd stringers.
the wonger need food is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2005   #25
Jwwillis
All Pro
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Age: 51
Posts: 610
Rep Power: 10 Jwwillis is a team player
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grid
Banks is our #2 guy. He looked bad against the Raiders.. but I blame that mostly on having Hollings as his RB. Ragone looked better.. and he had Morency.

Against the Broncos Banks looked better.. but he had Wells. Ragone looked worse.. and he had Hollings.


get rid of Hollings.
Perhaps Banks and Hollings were suffering from the same problem. From what I saw the 0-line did a lousy job for both of them while they were in. Also, didn't we miss a red zone opportunity when Ragone threw the ball 10 feet over the recievers head on 3rd down? I've never been a fan of a lefty #2 QB when the #1 is right handed. The adjustments are hard enough when a #2 is forced into the game after an injury without having to deal with ( blind side opposite side of 0-line, opposite spin on the ball while in the air...etc. ).
Jwwillis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2005   #26
Jwwillis
All Pro
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Age: 51
Posts: 610
Rep Power: 10 Jwwillis is a team player
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HardCoreTxn
If Carr gets injured, we are screwed with eithier of these guys
Wasn't true last year.
Jwwillis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2005   #27
Corrosion
Hall of Fame
 
Corrosion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Northwest Houston
Age: 45
Posts: 30,359
Rep Power: 144827 Corrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by the wonger need food
Being a lefty will have no effect on Ragone's future in the NFL. .

Im not saying it will affect his career the NFL , what i am saying is that it changes the dynamics of pass protection .... That can affect his production . Considering the O-line is the weakest area of the team ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jwwillis
I've never been a fan of a lefty #2 QB when the #1 is right handed. The adjustments are hard enough when a #2 is forced into the game after an injury without having to deal with ( blind side opposite side of 0-line, opposite spin on the ball while in the air...etc. ).
You get the picture .......
Corrosion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2005   #28
the wonger need food
Hall of Fame
 
the wonger need food's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Houston
Age: 44
Posts: 2,562
Rep Power: 1340 the wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by corrosion
Im not saying it will affect his career the NFL , what i am saying is that it changes the dynamics of pass protection .... That can affect his production . Considering the O-line is the weakest area of the team ....

You get the picture .......
Oh, you were stating the obvious. It sounded like these were you only concerns. With Ragone the list is a lot longer.
the wonger need food is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2005   #29
Texans86
All Pro
 
Texans86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Waco, Texas
Age: 27
Posts: 927
Rep Power: 9 Texans86 is a team player
Default

If Ragone came in as the #2 if Carr got hurt, would the defense change it's speed rusher to the opposite side of the field. One of the reasons the LT position is so difficult is that the DE on the side is a speed rusher and is usually gunning for the quarterback's backside. I honestly don't know if the defense changes it's lines positions. It seems like it would be the speed rusher coming Ragone's face.
__________________
"Only the Sith deal in absolutes." ---Wait, isn't that an absolute?
Texans86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2005   #30
Corrosion
Hall of Fame
 
Corrosion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Northwest Houston
Age: 45
Posts: 30,359
Rep Power: 144827 Corrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by the wonger need food
Oh, you were stating the obvious. It sounded like these were you only concerns. With Ragone the list is a lot longer.

Is Ragone a starting calibur QB .... NO . Can he step in during the regular season and fill in for Carr ? We dont know yet . If he plays like he did last season no . He looked like a deer caught in the headlights . But he has improved by leaps and bounds over the past year . Right now he's playing as well or better than Banks .
Lets face it , his job inst to be spectacular , just to come in and give the team a chance to win in the event Carr and or Banks are hurt . Basicly all that the coaching staff would ask of him would be to limit his mistakes while moving the chains in a simplified version of the offense .


Quote:
Originally Posted by Texans86
If Ragone came in as the #2 if Carr got hurt, would the defense change it's speed rusher to the opposite side of the field. One of the reasons the LT position is so difficult is that the DE on the side is a speed rusher and is usually gunning for the quarterback's backside. I honestly don't know if the defense changes it's lines positions. It seems like it would be the speed rusher coming Ragone's face.
I doubt teams will switch a player from one side of the line or the other just because a QB is a lefty and want said player coming from his blind side .... In general a teams best pass blocker will be on the QB's blind side , The majority of QB's are right handed therefore the importance of the LT position . Both tackles jobs are similar in passing situations , best case is to allow the defender to gain ground upfield while being forced outside and beyond the QB forming a pocket where he can step up on release .The direction in which a QB will step changes from righty to lefty as well as his release point .... thus changing the dynamics of the pocket itself as well as passing lanes . Not to mentoin placing a generally inferior pass blocker in a position where he must protect the QB's blind side .
Corrosion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2005   #31
texan279
Hall of Fame
 
texan279's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Rosenberg TX
Age: 35
Posts: 5,608
Rep Power: 3366 texan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Lets face it , his job inst to be spectacular , just to come in and give the team a chance to win in the event Carr and or Banks are hurt .
Exactly. Some people act as if the #2 and #3 QB should be as good as the starting QB. But if that was the case, he wouldn't be a #2 or #3. A backup should just be able to come in and be solid.
__________________
Fire It Up, Let the engines roll, It's time to burn it down
texan279 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2005   #32
vtech9
Hall of Fame
 
vtech9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 45
Posts: 1,055
Rep Power: 15 vtech9 was voted MVPvtech9 was voted MVPvtech9 was voted MVPvtech9 was voted MVPvtech9 was voted MVP
Send a message via Yahoo to vtech9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by corrosion
Is Ragone a starting calibur QB .... NO . Can he step in during the regular season and fill in for Carr ? We dont know yet . If he plays like he did last season no . He looked like a deer caught in the headlights . But he has improved by leaps and bounds over the past year .
Ummmm...If my memory is correct, Ragone did not play last year. He played in 2 games his rookie year, but I don't remember him playing at all last year. Hmmmm, maybe old age is catching up to me and my memory is starting to fail.
vtech9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2005   #33
Corrosion
Hall of Fame
 
Corrosion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Northwest Houston
Age: 45
Posts: 30,359
Rep Power: 144827 Corrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vtech9
Ummmm...If my memory is correct, Ragone did not play last year. He played in 2 games his rookie year, but I don't remember him playing at all last year. Hmmmm, maybe old age is catching up to me and my memory is starting to fail.

You are correct , he did NOT play in the Regular season last year . He has only seen action in Two regular season games in 03 . Starting both ... against Jacksonville in the 13th game (a 27- 0 loss) and against Tampa Bay in the 14th game ( a 16- 3 loss) . (Game logs here http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpag.../gamelogs/2003) . This is the game action i was refering to ...135 passing yards in TWO starts isnt very impressive . One interception and FOUR fumbles (only one lost) are the scarriest part .

..... Looks like its my old age catching up to me
Corrosion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2005   #34
Scooter
Funky
 
Scooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 34
Posts: 4,643
Rep Power: 53247 Scooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

banks. trade ragone while he's got atleast a little value. ragone will never successfully start for an NFL team (except maybe the steelers). from everything i've seen on him, ragone is more likely to get a receiver's career ended than carry a team. banks has filled the role as a starter and backup and knows the roles ... he's not great, but he's competant.

i'll agree with another's post ... get rid of hollings, he's simply not good enough (DD, wells, & morancy are more than a strong backfield). one i dont agree with is the equivelant of "he shouldnt be as good as the starter". no, but at ragone's age he should either have the potential, or convince someone else he has the potential & trade him. ragone doesnt have carr's potential, but he has a small window of marketability. a veteran who can fill in as needed should be and usually is #2, with the new guy 3rd. ragone's moved past that. cut bait and let the next guy, i'd say symons, fill that role.
__________________
Scooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2005   #35
ATX
Hall of Fame
 
ATX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Austin
Age: 34
Posts: 9,563
Rep Power: 143 ATX is a quality contributor and well respectedATX is a quality contributor and well respectedATX is a quality contributor and well respectedATX is a quality contributor and well respectedATX is a quality contributor and well respectedATX is a quality contributor and well respectedATX is a quality contributor and well respectedATX is a quality contributor and well respectedATX is a quality contributor and well respectedATX is a quality contributor and well respectedATX is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Ragone will be here for a long time. sure we could trade him now or cut him now, but then what happens when banks retires or gets cut. you really want symmons as our backup QB next year? ragone's value now is the highest its ever been, but its not like teams are lining up to take him. IMO, he's our future #2 QB, i don't care if he wants to start, no team would start him, you have to earn a start and up to this point, he hasn't.
ATX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2005   #36
texan279
Hall of Fame
 
texan279's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Rosenberg TX
Age: 35
Posts: 5,608
Rep Power: 3366 texan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
ragone's value now is the highest its ever been, but its not like teams are lining up to take him.
I bet the Bears would take him...
__________________
Fire It Up, Let the engines roll, It's time to burn it down
texan279 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2005   #37
infantrycak
Lead Moderator
 
infantrycak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Age: 46
Posts: 43,725
Rep Power: 225351 infantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via AIM to infantrycak
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by corrosion
. This is the game action i was refering to ...135 passing yards in TWO starts isnt very impressive . One interception and FOUR fumbles (only one lost) are the scarriest part .

..... Looks like its my old age catching up to me
Have to factore in the 8 sacks the OL gave up in those two games. People are not being fair to Ragone acting as if they can foretell his entire NFL career off two games his rookie season where his OL basically didn't show up. Those two weeks the OL was miserable. It was almost as if they didn't want to play if Carr wasn't back there.
__________________
The Art of War
infantrycak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2005   #38
jmantexfan
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Age: 34
Posts: 39
Rep Power: 0 jmantexfan is ridin' the pine
Default

Banks is old, very old and thats a fact. Throughout his career he has been a good back-up, but lets face it. he is old, and i believe it is beginning to show. Ragone however, is young, and has momentum coming off a great season in NFLE and has looked decent in preseason IMO, and Banks has not. If we get rid of Ragone and Carr goes down and BAnks fills in and really shows his age then we are stuck like chuck. With ragone we know that he can grow and has definately shown improvement. I say Banks stays incase he (isnt old) and can still be a competent back-up and if it does not work out then we bring in Ragone. I say Banks goes after the season, definately and if throughout this season Ragone doesnt continuously show improvement then he can go next season. right now i see Ragone is in Banks' neighborhood and should get better. If that doesnt happen then let him go but if it does, he may be our back-up of the future.
jmantexfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2005   #39
Corrosion
Hall of Fame
 
Corrosion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Northwest Houston
Age: 45
Posts: 30,359
Rep Power: 144827 Corrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
Have to factore in the 8 sacks the OL gave up in those two games. People are not being fair to Ragone acting as if they can foretell his entire NFL career off two games his rookie season where his OL basically didn't show up. Those two weeks the OL was miserable. It was almost as if they didn't want to play if Carr wasn't back there.
Yes , the O-line was beyond miserable ... the fact that the Texans were forced to start their Rookie 3rd string QB says enough about the lines play ... They didnt want to play w/ Carr or Banks back there either Im not judging his value to the team by those performances , a rookie playing like one ..... What i am getting at is that he has made HUGE improvement since that time .
Lets hope his improvement contiues and in the case that Carr goes down again in the future Ragone can come in and give limit his mistakes and give the team a chance to win .... thats about all you can ask of your back-up QB's .
Corrosion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2005   #40
JustBonee
Hall of Fame
 
JustBonee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,762
Rep Power: 11 JustBonee is a fan favorite
Default

Just an observation ...
I noticed the QB group, standing side by side directly in front of me at the game, Tony Banks has a couple inches over DC (surprised me), and Dave Ragone is a couple inches shorter than DC. Height counts for something in your quarterback.
JustBonee is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger