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Old 03-22-2010   #1
stingray
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Default How bout this draft?

Take it easy on me...

First Round- Brian Price DT UCLA Extremely quick. Needs to improve lateral movement.

Second Round- Jonathan Dwyer RB Georgia Tech Big physical runner. Dropping some due to slow 40 at combine. Fits Texans one cut style.

Third Round- Akwasi Owusu-Ansah CB IUP BIG, FAST and LONG ARMS. High risk/High reward pick.

Fourth Round-A.J. Jefferson CB Fresno State Very aggressive but very fast. Good Athlete. Also a very good kick returner.

Fifth Round- Simoni Lawrence LB Minnesota High Motor/undersized. Depth at LB and good special teams player.

Sixth Round-Leigh Tiffin K Alabama Let's get the kicking game fixed. Best kicker in the draft.

Sixth Round-Shelley Smith OG Colorado State Gotta have a Ram.

Seventh Round-Joe Hawley C UNLV Can compete for the Center position and also at Guard.

Your Thoughts?
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Old 03-22-2010   #2
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Default Re: How bout this draft?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stingray View Post
Take it easy on me...

First Round- Brian Price DT UCLA Extremely quick. Needs to improve lateral movement.

Second Round- Jonathan Dwyer RB Georgia Tech Big physical runner. Dropping some due to slow 40 at combine. Fits Texans one cut style.

Third Round- Akwasi Owusu-Ansah CB IUP BIG, FAST and LONG ARMS. High risk/High reward pick.

Fourth Round-A.J. Jefferson CB Fresno State Very aggressive but very fast. Good Athlete. Also a very good kick returner.

Fifth Round- Simoni Lawrence LB Minnesota High Motor/undersized. Depth at LB and good special teams player.

Sixth Round-Leigh Tiffin K Alabama Let's get the kicking game fixed. Best kicker in the draft.

Sixth Round-Shelley Smith OG Colorado State Gotta have a Ram.

Seventh Round-Joe Hawley C UNLV Can compete for the Center position and also at Guard.

Your Thoughts?
not familiar w/ draft picks 5th - 7th...I like your corners 3rd and 4th( Jefferson is raw from what I read) though Mayock likes his potential..I'm more fond of Tate or Hardesty as my backs though 2nd round might be where you have to get them...i'm not fightin' ya on Price though I do feel we need a FS in this draft...
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Old 03-22-2010   #3
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Default Re: How bout this draft?

The 2 biggest weaknesses on our team are in the secondary and O-line. The secondary gets mid round project players only and with this draft we still have no #1 CB, and the O-line only gets some 6th and 7th round scrubs. Kubiak has stated publicly that the most important area of improvement this offseason is in the running game and part of that should be in improving the O-line with some top notch talent. Much earlier OG/C and 1st or 2nd round CB's are needed.
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Old 03-22-2010   #4
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Default Re: How bout this draft?

Not bad at all Stingray. You address some big needs overall. I am still a huge fan of Dwyer.
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Old 03-22-2010   #5
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Default Re: How bout this draft?

I don't like DTs in the first round. Rookie DTs don't typically light the world on fire even in the small roles they are required to do on a defense. Right now, our team needs our first round player to provide an immediate impact. You can check out my info about DTs in the CB and S in the draft thread. Price strikes me as the kind of DT that will be good if he's on an already good defense.

I like your second round pick if you aren't going to go DB like me in round 2 because you follow up real nice with some good DBs in round 3 and 4.
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Old 03-22-2010   #6
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Default Re: How bout this draft?

Dont like the Price pick, Defenders from the Pac 10 aren't my cup of tea.

Would rather draft another RB in rds 5-7. (LaMarcus Coker or Lonyae Miller would be my choice)

Overall good job.
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Old 03-22-2010   #7
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Default Re: How bout this draft?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stingray View Post
Take it easy on me...

First Round- Brian Price DT UCLA Extremely quick. Needs to improve lateral movement.

Second Round- Jonathan Dwyer RB Georgia Tech Big physical runner. Dropping some due to slow 40 at combine. Fits Texans one cut style.

Third Round- Akwasi Owusu-Ansah CB IUP BIG, FAST and LONG ARMS. High risk/High reward pick.

Fourth Round-A.J. Jefferson CB Fresno State Very aggressive but very fast. Good Athlete. Also a very good kick returner.

Fifth Round- Simoni Lawrence LB Minnesota High Motor/undersized. Depth at LB and good special teams player.

Sixth Round-Leigh Tiffin K Alabama Let's get the kicking game fixed. Best kicker in the draft.

Sixth Round-Shelley Smith OG Colorado State Gotta have a Ram.

Seventh Round-Joe Hawley C UNLV Can compete for the Center position and also at Guard.

Your Thoughts?
You address most of the right needs, but with the wrong people, in my opinion.

I dont like Price at all, but to be fair, I am not a fan of taking DTs in the first.

Dwyer will be a colossal bust in the pros. A product of the system, weight problems. I just get a bad vibe.

Great pick in the 3rd.

Jefferson is a bit of a workout warrior. Play wise, he is about a 5th rounder.

Lawrence would be a great 6th or 7th. The Minnesota LB corp is legit.

The K is a good pick.
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Old 03-22-2010   #8
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Default Re: How bout this draft?

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Originally Posted by rmartin65 View Post
You address most of the right needs, but with the wrong people, in my opinion.

I dont like Price at all, but to be fair, I am not a fan of taking DTs in the first.

Dwyer will be a colossal bust in the pros. A product of the system, weight problems. I just get a bad vibe.

Great pick in the 3rd.

Jefferson is a bit of a workout warrior. Play wise, he is about a 5th rounder.

Lawrence would be a great 6th or 7th. The Minnesota LB corp is legit.

The K is a good pick.
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Old 03-22-2010   #9
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Default Re: How bout this draft?

Y'all asked about DT information. Here it is:

The number of 1st Round DTs from 2004-2009
6 - 3 every year.

Best DT 1st round Draft Class
2004 had Two Pro Bowlers (Tommie Harris and Vince Wilfork) and avg. the most tackles and sacks. (187/13.8)

Percentage still on team

77% - Only two DTs from 04-09 are not with their original that selected them. Travis Johnson (05) who was traded after 4 years, and Marcus Tubbs (04) who only played 3 years.

Number of 1st Round Pro Bowlers from 04-09
3 (Tommie Harris and Vince Wilfork in 04 and Haloti Ngata in 06) 6% of total from 04-09.

Top 10 DT 1st round picks from 04-09

3

Picked 11-20

6

20-32

8 - to teams like Philly, San Diego, Bills (who got that pick through trade in 06/not a playoff team) 49ers, Falcons (playoffs), Steelers (Super Bowl Champs), Chicago, and New England.

I was suprised to see how few DTs were selected in the first round during that time period. When I think of how The Texans need impact players RIGHT NOW to get in the playoffs, I'm realizing how the first round is not for us to pick a DT. I'm curious how many later round DTs have made a bigger impact. Even if you look at the DTs that were selected last year, and many here and on TV said they would be studs, BJ Raji was the most productive with 25 tackles and 1 sack.

For my money, I'm going with a DB (hopefully a saftey named Earl Thomas) in the first round. Seems like even a RB has a better chance than a DT does in the first round to be more productive.

Perhaps if I were a team like that was already a playoff team, super bowl contender or super bowl champ, I would spend it on at DT. They after all had the later picks and picked the most DTs from 04-09. They also had the most success. Perhaps because their D was already good and they added a DT as a contributor, not a solution.

The teams that picked a DT in the first top 10, 2 out of 3 haven't made the playoffs (Hou, KC) and the one that did, well it wasn't because of BJ Raji.

The teams that picked the middle 11-20 are typically teams that didn't make the playoffs or a playoff contender, only Broderick Bunkley and Haloti Ngata were picked that are worth anything. Thats 2 out of 6 over 04-09. Not good for a team looking for their first pick to be a impact player and push them to the playoffs.

Here's what I found about DTs in the first round and why I don't want us to go that route.
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Old 03-22-2010   #10
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Default Re: How bout this draft?

I understand that the Texans have had problems drafting Dt's in the first round. But that doesn't mean that they ignore that option. What if Mathews is gone by the Texans pick? They have to consider price. I have also listened to some of Brian's interviews, he is a very impressive young man. I also like that he is described as an overachiever. I like an overachiever with talent. Can't beat that combination.
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Old 03-22-2010   #11
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Default Re: How bout this draft?

Nobody asked me, but IMO this is the best year we have ever had to try and trade out of the first round and pick up a high 2nd and maybe a med-low 3rd or high 4th. Between the 2nd-4th round this draft is very deep this year. Just my 2 cents. Maybe no impact players, but a lot of quality depth and development players.
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Old 03-22-2010   #12
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Default Re: How bout this draft?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stingray View Post
I understand that the Texans have had problems drafting Dt's in the first round. But that doesn't mean that they ignore that option. What if Mathews is gone by the Texans pick? They have to consider price. I have also listened to some of Brian's interviews, he is a very impressive young man. I also like that he is described as an overachiever. I like an overachiever with talent. Can't beat that combination.
Many think DT is not a high priority need. If Mathews gone there are high value corners and free safeties.
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Old 03-22-2010   #13
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Default Re: How bout this draft?

Quote:
Originally Posted by krocket View Post
Nobody asked me, but IMO this is the best year we have ever had to try and trade out of the first round and pick up a high 2nd and maybe a med-low 3rd or high 4th. Between the 2nd-4th round this draft is very deep this year. Just my 2 cents. Maybe no impact players, but a lot of quality depth and development players.
You might be quite on target. It really depends on who is available and what desperation is associated with that player by team below us. Dallas really need to hit it big this draft for Coach Phillips imo.
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Old 03-26-2010   #14
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Default Re: How bout this draft?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stingray View Post
I understand that the Texans have had problems drafting Dt's in the first round. But that doesn't mean that they ignore that option. What if Mathews is gone by the Texans pick? They have to consider price. I have also listened to some of Brian's interviews, he is a very impressive young man. I also like that he is described as an overachiever. I like an overachiever with talent. Can't beat that combination.
There wasn't a more sure thing coming out than Amobi Okye. OK....so what the point of the post is is there is a great risk to hit one of the six percenters at Dt who become studs. Now if you hit it's fine. But why wouldn't you wait on the DT ? Isn't the value later in the draft on DTs ? They have to improve the rushing attack. And all evidence so far is they will do it with a back. So my Question to your question is what if Steve Slaton is not on line by September ? Then what ? What we know for a fact that at sixteen touches a game Steve Slaton broke down in 2009. I mean I'm with you in one respect. I do what I have to do to get Iupati and shore up the rushing attack. That's should be priority one. Only so many Houdini third and longs Matt has in the tank, then we're going to pay a heavy price. Matt goes down, won't matter who the CBs are or the Rb or the DT is. We're toast.
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Old 03-27-2010   #15
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Default Re: How bout this draft?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stingray View Post
Take it easy on me...

Sixth Round-Shelley Smith OG Colorado State Gotta have a Ram.


Your Thoughts?
I have him down as a possible sleeper pick by our team. Kubiak is familiar with the Rams and Marc Lubick was one of their offensive coaches.

He does have a nice upside.

Not thrilled with with your 1st two picks, but that is a personal thing.
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Old 03-28-2010   #16
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Default Re: How bout this draft?

Quote:
Originally Posted by threetoedpete View Post
There wasn't a more sure thing coming out than Amobi Okye. OK....so what the point of the post is is there is a great risk to hit one of the six percenters at Dt who become studs. Now if you hit it's fine. But why wouldn't you wait on the DT ? Isn't the value later in the draft on DTs ? They have to improve the rushing attack. And all evidence so far is they will do it with a back. So my Question to your question is what if Steve Slaton is not on line by September ? Then what ? What we know for a fact that at sixteen touches a game Steve Slaton broke down in 2009. I mean I'm with you in one respect. I do what I have to do to get Iupati and shore up the rushing attack. That's should be priority one. Only so many Houdini third and longs Matt has in the tank, then we're going to pay a heavy price. Matt goes down, won't matter who the CBs are or the Rb or the DT is. We're toast.
I don't know about Okoye being close to a sure thing. His own college coach passed on him. With dt being such a hard position to hit on in the draft and so hard for players to learn in the nfl the fact that the Texans took an even greater chance on Okoye because he was so young was baffling at the time. The Texans passed on Patrick Willis and Darrelle Revis to take him. I would say that Willis at the time was the most sure thing in the draft. Most of us fans wanted the Texans to draft him but were disappointed to see them take Okoye.

Having said that I still wouldn't rule out dt in the 1st round if say a Dan Williams is there. A really good dt can elevate a defence tremendously. Okoye might be better than what we have seen if he could only play next to a dt that can man handle some ol. The Texans have never had a good dt since Seth Payne. That and the safety position are real sore spots on this defense.

I just don't see the value in taking a rb in the first round this year. There just isn't enough difference between what you can get in the 1st and what you can get in the 2nd and 3rd. CJ Spiller maybe but I just don't think that what they need is a smallish back right now. With Slaton playing so poorly last year and having surgery after the season I think the Texans mindset has to be to find a rb that can replace him if things don't work out. Mathews maybe but in the 1st round? I think you get better value with a Tate, Hardesty, Gerhart, or Dwyer somewhere in the next 2 rounds.

This draft seems to be loaded with cb talent so that is another position that I would wait on and not fill in the 1st. And again the talent that is graded out to go in the 1st round to me doesn't look a whole lot different than the talent graded out to go in the next 2 rounds.

One of the weakest draft classes looks to be at free safety. If Thomas is there I think you take him without hesitation. Same thing with dt. If Williams is there you take him. If both are there I don't know. If neither are there then bpa between ol (Iupati), cb (Haden or Wilson), and rb (Mathews). If the draft plays out that way the Texans just have to hope that some really good value players are there in rounds 2-4 at their other positions of need. Kind of like what happened in the 2006 draft. They got DeMeco Ryans in the 2nd, Eric Winston in the 3rd, and Owen Daniels in the 4th.
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Old 03-28-2010   #17
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Default Re: How bout this draft?

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Originally Posted by threetoedpete View Post
There wasn't a more sure thing coming out than Amobi Okye. OK....so what the point of the post is is there is a great risk to hit one of the six percenters at Dt who become studs. Now if you hit it's fine. But why wouldn't you wait on the DT ? Isn't the value later in the draft on DTs ? They have to improve the rushing attack. And all evidence so far is they will do it with a back. So my Question to your question is what if Steve Slaton is not on line by September ? Then what ? What we know for a fact that at sixteen touches a game Steve Slaton broke down in 2009. I mean I'm with you in one respect. I do what I have to do to get Iupati and shore up the rushing attack. That's should be priority one. Only so many Houdini third and longs Matt has in the tank, then we're going to pay a heavy price. Matt goes down, won't matter who the CBs are or the Rb or the DT is. We're toast.
Agreed

I would draft Mathews in the 1st.

Asamoah would be a great pick in the 2nd but I would take the best DB in the 2nd. Because there isn't much difference between Asamoah and Newhouse. Who should be available in the 3rd.

You've fixed the OL (finally) added your work horse RB and upgraded the CB (Dunta) position. IMHO
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Old 03-29-2010   #18
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Default Re: How bout this draft?

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I don't know about Okoye being close to a sure thing. His own college coach passed on him.
I don't understand why this ever gets stated. The Falcons pressed a need at DE. That isn't a reflection on Okoye. Oh and they ended up with a bust pick. Okoye has three times the sacks Anderson has. That's some great judgment to refer to.
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Old 03-29-2010   #19
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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
I don't understand why this ever gets stated. The Falcons pressed a need at DE. That isn't a reflection on Okoye. Oh and they ended up with a bust pick. Okoye has three times the sacks Anderson has. That's some great judgment to refer to.
You didn't tell me anything I didn't already know there Cak. I know they needed de. It gets stated because it is a fact even though it wasn't a need like de. If his old college coach had some insight that Okoye was something going to be special I think he may have lobbied for him. The first round is supposed to be bpa with common sense of course. I also know Atlanta drafted a bust de (Jamaal Anderson). And I'm also not saying Okoye is a bust yet either but rather making the point that he was not the closest to a sure thing as stated. And to pass on a much surer bet like Willis didn't make much since imho.
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Old 03-29-2010   #20
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Default Re: How bout this draft?

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Originally Posted by bckey View Post
You didn't tell me anything I didn't already know there Cak. I know they needed de. It gets stated because it is a fact even though it wasn't a need like de. If his old college coach had some insight that Okoye was something going to be special I think he may have lobbied for him. The first round is supposed to be bpa with common sense of course. I also know Atlanta drafted a bust de (Jamaal Anderson). And I'm also not saying Okoye is a bust yet either but rather making the point that he was not the closest to a sure thing as stated. And to pass on a much surer bet like Willis didn't make much since imho.
I don't normally use terms like sure thing. My point was simply Okoye was ranked where he was taken and was a very very well respected prospect as was Willis. The Texans didn't reach for him and I back to the initial point don't think his college coach passing on him was a reflection on him so much as exactly the opposite of what about - going need over bpa which would have been Willis, Reevis or Okoye over Anderson.
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