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Old 02-28-2010   #21
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Default Re: Here is my Mock 2.0

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Originally Posted by rickyb View Post
LZ,
A sincere question: if the draft is deep enough at CB to justify starters through the first 3 rounds, why not hit a talent like CJ in round 1, and go after a CB in round 2?

(I am not taking a position. Just a sincere question.)

Best,
Rick
Very fair question and very fair observation. If the Texans feel like they can get their money's worth from Spiller (in other words, can they get him enough touches per game to justify that money), then they will probably give him or another RB a very hard look in the first and then CB in the 2nd because their is a great chance of having a CB you like avaialble in the 2nd and in free agency as opposed to RB in the 2nd and free agency.
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Old 02-28-2010   #22
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Default Re: Here is my Mock 2.0

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Very fair question and very fair observation. If the Texans feel like they can get their money's worth from Spiller (in other words, can they get him enough touches per game to justify that money), then they will probably give him or another RB a very hard look in the first and then CB in the 2nd because their is a great chance of having a CB you like avaialble in the 2nd and in free agency as opposed to RB in the 2nd and free agency.
agree totally.
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Old 02-28-2010   #23
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Default Re: Here is my Mock 2.0

If Eric Berry fell that far I would hope that the Texans would at least talk to teams about a move up to get him. I hope the draft doesn't go like your mock because Dan Williams and Earl Thomas would be gone by the time we pick although I do like Kyle Wilson quite a bit. I definately don't want Patrick Robinson or Brian Pryce. If we stayed at 20 with your mock I would say we would have to consider Mays and Matthews also and they might even look at trading back a few spots.
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Old 03-01-2010   #24
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Default Re: Here is my Mock 2.0

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If the Texans feel like they can get their money's worth from Spiller (in other words, can they get him enough touches per game to justify that money), then they will probably give him or another RB a very hard look in the first
Justify what money? The #20 pick is going to be a cheap hire for anyone that performs well other than a kicker. You're looking at a 4-5 year $13 mil deal. It's only the top 10 that get absurd money.
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Old 03-01-2010   #25
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Default Re: Here is my Mock 2.0

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Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
love it. I've fast become territorial about Kyle, he would be a great fit here in Houston if still available. here are my notes so far -
  • natural, fluid hip turn creating instant redirect/change direction
  • cathes everything in his zone both over the top & dropped underneath
  • sits on routes reads QB patinet smooth back peddle, makes play on ball
  • does not back down, plays big in big games
  • shows excellent leadership, takes ownership of other teams #1 WR
  • physical despite size, better than advertised in run support
  • will hold position edge on WR forcing QB to take risks with ball
  • appetite for hard work & challanges, plays prepared

your contacts are right about Jimmy Claussen too, well at least you don't have him in top 10 kuddos!
Every time I do one of my lame mocks, Kyle Wilson seems to be there. Guy's sort of a big deal.
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Old 03-01-2010   #26
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Default Re: Here is my Mock 2.0

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Originally Posted by HuttoKarl View Post
Every time I do one of my lame mocks, Kyle Wilson seems to be there. Guy's sort of a big deal.
yeah but will he still be there @ #20? I'm being told to make contingency plans.
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Old 03-01-2010   #27
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Default Re: Here is my Mock 2.0

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Originally Posted by LZ View Post
Very fair question and very fair observation. If the Texans feel like they can get their money's worth from Spiller (in other words, can they get him enough touches per game to justify that money), then they will probably give him or another RB a very hard look in the first and then CB in the 2nd because their is a great chance of having a CB you like avaialble in the 2nd and in free agency as opposed to RB in the 2nd and free agency.
Wow, Lance , I'm gonna have to disagree with you on Iupati and the above opinion. Of course, that is what makes this so much fun; the debate and exchange of ideas. First, I have to side with BeerLover. We did quite a bit of research as he & I and RMARTIN 65 looked at Iupati @ #20. I see him more suited as a power bruiser for that type scheme. As you know, it takes more than quick feet in ZBS to be successful. His type OG can do it, in fact I have Newhouse from TCU our pick in 5th, just do not see Iupati doing it.

CB: I am hopeful Quin will be the #1 but not very hopeful. We need to draft CB that will replace DR and your pick of Wilson is a guy I have been pushing for long time. I think Gerhart, Matthews, Dixon or Dwyer should be there in 2nd. There are no other CB starters IMO. Closest would be Perrish Cox if Smith gets past his discipline issue.
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Old 03-01-2010   #28
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Justify what money? The #20 pick is going to be a cheap hire for anyone that performs well other than a kicker. You're looking at a 4-5 year $13 mil deal. It's only the top 10 that get absurd money.
You can always go cheaper than that in the 2nd round.
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Old 03-01-2010   #29
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Default Re: Here is my Mock 2.0

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You can always go cheaper than that in the 2nd round.
Same can be said with any position. Non-discriminating criteria.

Fact is a #20 pick is going to be a relative to league top performers cheap contract at any position other than kicker/punter. I'm not advocating Spiller but "justify the money" is a throw away line without merit.
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Old 03-01-2010   #30
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Wow, Lance , I'm gonna have to disagree with you on Iupati and the above opinion. Of course, that is what makes this so much fun; the debate and exchange of ideas. First, I have to side with BeerLover. We did quite a bit of research as he & I and RMARTIN 65 looked at Iupati @ #20. I see him more suited as a power bruiser for that type scheme. As you know, it takes more than quick feet in ZBS to be successful. His type OG can do it, in fact I have Newhouse from TCU our pick in 5th, just do not see Iupati doing it.

CB: I am hopeful Quin will be the #1 but not very hopeful. We need to draft CB that will replace DR and your pick of Wilson is a guy I have been pushing for long time. I think Gerhart, Matthews, Dixon or Dwyer should be there in 2nd. There are no other CB starters IMO. Closest would be Perrish Cox if Smith gets past his discipline issue.

I respect your opinion, but I have to tell you that I think too much is made of guard play when talking about the ZBS. A tackles ability to get to the backside LB or to reach on the 3-technique is much more important than finding some dazzling dancer at guard. Iupati is GREAT as a pulling tackle and can certainly play in a power system which is why I put him where I did, but NFL line coaches have all told me that he has the athleticism to play in pretty much any scheme. His issues that teams are picking at have more to do with how he tries to finish and with technique right now, but I'm not really hearing much about him not being athletic enough. Go ahead and put very little into anything you see at combines for interior linemen. I can tell you from having a family member coach and evaluate NFL lineman that film study and Shrine Game/Senior Bowl practices count for about 90 to 95% on centers and guards and the combine makes up the other 5 to 10%. Film doesn't lie.
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Old 03-01-2010   #31
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Default Re: Here is my Mock 2.0

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Justify what money? The #20 pick is going to be a cheap hire for anyone that performs well other than a kicker. You're looking at a 4-5 year $13 mil deal. It's only the top 10 that get absurd money.
Yep can't argue contract value with Spiller or Mathews or Tate in the second or third round. Just as a philosophy thingy, as one cut and go back thing....I think it's foolish not to hit another hole first before running back. But you can't argue contract value. If it is the running backs and not the holes for the running backs and he gets you over the division hurdle, any running back will be worth the twenty contract.
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Old 03-01-2010   #32
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Same can be said with any position. Non-discriminating criteria.

Fact is a #20 pick is going to be a relative to league top performers cheap contract at any position other than kicker/punter. I'm not advocating Spiller but "justify the money" is a throw away line without merit.

Not to a team who has to redo deals with OD, Ryans and Mario. I also think you are underestimating the "RB has limited value" mindset that we've see from the Texans in the past. Sure, with Gibbs gone it might be different, but it would be careless to just throw away what you already know about how they operate in regards to the RB position and their idea of value at that position.
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Old 03-01-2010   #33
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Yep can't argue contract value with Spiller or Mathews or Tate in the second or third round. Just as a philosophy thingy, as one cut and go back thing....I think it's foolish not to hit another hole first before running back. But you can't argue contract value. If it is the running backs and not the holes for the running backs and he gets you over the division hurdle, any running back will be worth the twenty contract.
By the way, Tate is turning into a big time workout warrior. If there is one back that I've heard "just a guy" comments about this year from RB evaluators, it has been Tate. I wouldn't touch him in the 2nd.
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Old 03-01-2010   #34
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Default Re: Here is my Mock 2.0

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I respect your opinion, but I have to tell you that I think too much is made of guard play when talking about the ZBS. A tackles ability to get to the backside LB or to reach on the 3-technique is much more important than finding some dazzling dancer at guard. Iupati is GREAT as a pulling tackle and can certainly play in a power system which is why I put him where I did, but NFL line coaches have all told me that he has the athleticism to play in pretty much any scheme. His issues that teams are picking at have more to do with how he tries to finish and with technique right now, but I'm not really hearing much about him not being athletic enough. Go ahead and put very little into anything you see at combines for interior linemen. I can tell you from having a family member coach and evaluate NFL lineman that film study and Shrine Game/Senior Bowl practices count for about 90 to 95% on centers and guards and the combine makes up the other 5 to 10%. Film doesn't lie.
What is your read on Casey Studdard? He seems to be well liked by Kubiac but I do not evaluate him that high. What I am leading to is do you think any drafted guard will beat Studdard out before mid-season? I was leaning towards Pitts returning to end his career in Houston. I may need to re-arrange my mock to get a guard before 4th.
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Old 03-01-2010   #35
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Default Re: Here is my Mock 2.0

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I respect your opinion, but I have to tell you that I think too much is made of guard play when talking about the ZBS. A tackles ability to get to the backside LB or to reach on the 3-technique is much more important than finding some dazzling dancer at guard. Iupati is GREAT as a pulling tackle and can certainly play in a power system which is why I put him where I did, but NFL line coaches have all told me that he has the athleticism to play in pretty much any scheme. His issues that teams are picking at have more to do with how he tries to finish and with technique right now, but I'm not really hearing much about him not being athletic enough. Go ahead and put very little into anything you see at combines for interior linemen. I can tell you from having a family member coach and evaluate NFL lineman that film study and Shrine Game/Senior Bowl practices count for about 90 to 95% on centers and guards and the combine makes up the other 5 to 10%. Film doesn't lie.
in your professional opinion did you think Iupati played himself into a top 20 pick based on the actual game film in the Senior Bowl or practices?
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Old 03-01-2010   #36
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Not to a team who has to redo deals with OD, Ryans and Mario. I also think you are underestimating the "RB has limited value" mindset that we've see from the Texans in the past. Sure, with Gibbs gone it might be different, but it would be careless to just throw away what you already know about how they operate in regards to the RB position and their idea of value at that position.
The #20 pick is going to make the same money regardless of position and OD, Ryans and Mario are irrelevant to that issue.

I also know the difference between internet/radio myth and reality which is the Texans attempted to trade into the 1st to get DeAngelo Williams contrary to the "they won't draft a RB in the 1st" or "RB has limited value" myths. I'm not claiming they will take a RB in the 1st. Depends on how the players fall. But this mythology they are categorically against the idea is silly.
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Old 03-01-2010   #37
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Default Re: Here is my Mock 2.0

Look I know Iupati was a little sloppy in his game at the senior bowl. And I know he's a grabber. But what I except verbatim is that a pro o line coach is not going to have one bit of difficulty teaching this guy how to punch instead of grab. And with the OLTs such a mixed bag in this draft, and you're having trouble rushing the ball, a guy like Iupati gives you a yard of push with his first two steps. Make no mistake about it this guy is a rare athlete at 321. Anyone taking him in the top fifteen would be well justified if they wanted a rushing attack in their back pocket next fall. My worst nightmare now is Iupati is going to end up in the AFC ( South....Oiler senior moment)central.
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Old 03-01-2010   #38
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Default Re: Here is my Mock 2.0

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By the way, Tate is turning into a big time workout warrior. If there is one back that I've heard "just a guy" comments about this year from RB evaluators, it has been Tate. I wouldn't touch him in the 2nd.
your hysterical, killing me with Tate so much so I come to expect it. Which by the way fits into what Texans are most likely to do, which was the point in the beginning to find the best of the lot among the rest of the pack, the underwhelming bunch. sucks that Ben had other ideas & is hell bent on disproving his naysayers
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Old 03-01-2010   #39
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What is your read on Casey Studdard? He seems to be well liked by Kubiac but I do not evaluate him that high. What I am leading to is do you think any drafted guard will beat Studdard out before mid-season? I was leaning towards Pitts returning to end his career in Houston. I may need to re-arrange my mock to get a guard before 4th.
No more than a backup. Limited physically and athletically but tough.
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Old 03-01-2010   #40
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in your professional opinion did you think Iupati played himself into a top 20 pick based on the actual game film in the Senior Bowl or practices?
<em><strong>Not really, but I think that is where he'll go. He has rare size/ athleticism and he is still somewhat raw, but guard is just such a lower priority position that you would have to blow people away to legitimately play yourself inside the top 20. However, the Niners are looking to remake themselves on the offensive line and the Steelers owner came out and basically demanded they run the ball more and their guards are VERY average.</em></strong>
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