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Old 02-10-2010   #61
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Default Re: WalterFootball 2010 Mock Draft

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What do you mean, "Dwyer has a faster 40 but little else comes close to Gerhart."?
Dwyers http://espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=236248

Gerharts http://espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=236248

I am not saying Dwyer is a bad guy just that TG is better. The former is more of a sweep around the tackles on a pitch out than up the gut like Gerhart. I want to see how Dwyer's 40 holds up in the combine. I also think Gerhart can block the blitz better than Dwyer but that can be taught.
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Old 02-10-2010   #62
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Default Re: WalterFootball 2010 Mock Draft

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Kuper was the LG on a top 5 offensive team when Shanny was there.

Check out Dennisons bio when he was OC if you want to see how Denvers OL did under Shanny/Denny.
My concern is a lot of things were different under Shanny that did not convert to our team. The old "any back can get 1000 yds" for example.
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Old 02-10-2010   #63
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Default Re: WalterFootball 2010 Mock Draft

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Dwyers http://espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=236248

Gerharts http://espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=236248

I am not saying Dwyer is a bad guy just that TG is better. The former is more of a sweep around the tackles on a pitch out than up the gut like Gerhart. I want to see how Dwyer's 40 holds up in the combine. I also think Gerhart can block the blitz better than Dwyer but that can be taught.
FWIW ... I haven't seen a draft site that ranks Gerhart ahead of Dwyer .

Here's a mock I could live with .

http://www.gbnreport.com/2010projection.html
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Old 02-10-2010   #64
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Default Re: WalterFootball 2010 Mock Draft

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FWIW ... I haven't seen a draft site that ranks Gerhart ahead of Dwyer .

Here's a mock I could live with .

http://www.gbnreport.com/2010projection.html
And you will not even on mine because I get my guy in 2nd and Dwyer goes late first round. I fill the CB hole with Wilson. I think my position is solid getting a shutdown type corner and then the best back at least stat wise. I had Dwyer just ahead of TG until both played their final game.
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Old 02-10-2010   #65
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Default Re: WalterFootball 2010 Mock Draft

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My concern is a lot of things were different under Shanny that did not convert to our team. The old "any back can get 1000 yds" for example.
I'm not a believer in the any old RB theory either.

I've got Dwyer as my no.1 rated RB in this draft. He reminds me of Jonathon Stewart. I like Gerhart alot also but the fumbling issues concern me. After last season if I'm Smithiak stay away from RB's with fumbling issues at all costs.

I hope they try to trade a 5th rd pick for Hillis and draft L.Coker (you should check him out he can return KR/PR) in the 6th rd. This would solve the suckitude that was the Texans RB corps last year.

Or they can just sign Larry Johnson in FA. LOL
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Old 02-11-2010   #66
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Default Re: WalterFootball 2010 Mock Draft

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I'm not a believer in the any old RB theory either.

I've got Dwyer as my no.1 rated RB in this draft. He reminds me of Jonathon Stewart. I like Gerhart alot also but the fumbling issues concern me. After last season if I'm Smithiak stay away from RB's with fumbling issues at all costs.

I hope they try to trade a 5th rd pick for Hillis and draft L.Coker (you should check him out he can return KR/PR) in the 6th rd. This would solve the suckitude that was the Texans RB corps last year.

Or they can just sign Larry Johnson in FA. LOL
I think of Jonathan Stewart as a more up the middle power back and Dwyer as a pitch out to go around end with his speed or maybe a slant as the tackle blocks in towards the center. I think Dwyer can be effective in our scheme but prefer a Stewart type.
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Old 02-11-2010   #67
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Default Re: WalterFootball 2010 Mock Draft

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I think of Jonathan Stewart as a more up the middle power back and Dwyer as a pitch out to go around end with his speed or maybe a slant as the tackle blocks in towards the center. I think Dwyer can be effective in our scheme but prefer a Stewart type.
You obviously havent watched enough of Dwyer. He is just as good at breaking tackles as Gerhart. And I dont think its a reach to say he will be better in the pros at running up the middle that Gerhart.
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Old 02-11-2010   #68
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Default Re: WalterFootball 2010 Mock Draft

Dwyer is 5'11 235 LBS.

Dwyer spent the last 2 yrs as the fullback in a triple option attack. His main strength is running up the middle. That's what he did for the last 2 yrs.

He's faster than Gerhart, they're about the the same size and Dwyer is less of a fumbler.

The difference is that Dwyer will go in the 1st rd and Gerhart will go in the 3rd rd. IMO

Making Gerhart jast as good if not a better value than Dwyer. It's a flip of the coin really.
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Old 02-12-2010   #69
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Default Re: WalterFootball 2010 Mock Draft

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Dwyer is 5'11 235 LBS.

Dwyer spent the last 2 yrs as the fullback in a triple option attack. His main strength is running up the middle. That's what he did for the last 2 yrs.

He's faster than Gerhart, they're about the the same size and Dwyer is less of a fumbler.

The difference is that Dwyer will go in the 1st rd and Gerhart will go in the 3rd rd. IMO

Making Gerhart jast as good if not a better value than Dwyer. It's a flip of the coin really.
I watched Dwyer only this year when on TV. The few times he actually carried the ball through the middle, I saw little to excite me. He seemed to operate from the option to the left side and occasionally to the right off tackle. I saw nothing to make me like him for Texans but his stats were very good. As RMARTIN65 knows, Dwyers was my guy until he told me about Gerhart. I'll take your word for his value cause I sure did not see it. In fact, I'd probably rate Mathews then Dixon over Dwyer for Houston.
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Old 02-12-2010   #70
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Default Re: WalterFootball 2010 Mock Draft

Dwyer is a guy people look at his measurables and like. Then that taints the viewing of him. Just watch him play. Yes the speed for his size is impressive, but he is not a natural RB. All he does are dives up the middle, showing little to know lateral agility. Add in the amount of rushing options on that team, teams could not afford to key on Dwyer.
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Old 02-12-2010   #71
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Default Re: WalterFootball 2010 Mock Draft

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Dwyer is a guy people look at his measurables and like. Then that taints the viewing of him. Just watch him play. Yes the speed for his size is impressive, but he is not a natural RB. All he does are dives up the middle, showing little to know lateral agility. Add in the amount of rushing options on that team, teams could not afford to key on Dwyer.
Thats absolutely crazy. Dwyer is 10X more natural RB than Gerhart who is really nothing more than a FB with good speed who looked better than he really is because he ran behind an OL that consistantly opened huge holes for him. You put Dwyer behind Stanfords line and he blows away anything Gerhart accomplished.

There really is no comparison between the two. Dwyer is a first round talented RB, Gerhart is (at best) a 3rd round talent.
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Old 02-13-2010   #72
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Default Re: WalterFootball 2010 Mock Draft

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Thats absolutely crazy. Dwyer is 10X more natural RB than Gerhart who is really nothing more than a FB with good speed who looked better than he really is because he ran behind an OL that consistantly opened huge holes for him. You put Dwyer behind Stanfords line and he blows away anything Gerhart accomplished.

There really is no comparison between the two. Dwyer is a first round talented RB, Gerhart is (at best) a 3rd round talent.
I also think Dwyer is the much better prospect. He could be a workhorse back in his rookie year IMO.
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Old 02-13-2010   #73
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Default Re: WalterFootball 2010 Mock Draft

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Thats absolutely crazy. Dwyer is 10X more natural RB than Gerhart who is really nothing more than a FB with good speed who looked better than he really is because he ran behind an OL that consistantly opened huge holes for him. You put Dwyer behind Stanfords line and he blows away anything Gerhart accomplished.

There really is no comparison between the two. Dwyer is a first round talented RB, Gerhart is (at best) a 3rd round talent.
Thats a pretty big assumption - Gerhart is a physical runner with good speed , shifty moves and great balance - the only question about him is his tendancy to not keep contact with the ball on three points ..... I think he may turn out to be a very good pro if he can solve that issue. I dont think he will have a long career because of the physicality of his running but I do think with the right coaching he will be a very good back. I'd take him in the thrid round without question - pending that two of the three of the following were addressed in the forst two rounds - DL , OL and secondary.
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Old 02-13-2010   #74
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Default Re: WalterFootball 2010 Mock Draft

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Thats absolutely crazy. Dwyer is 10X more natural RB than Gerhart who is really nothing more than a FB with good speed who looked better than he really is because he ran behind an OL that consistantly opened huge holes for him. You put Dwyer behind Stanfords line and he blows away anything Gerhart accomplished.

There really is no comparison between the two. Dwyer is a first round talented RB, Gerhart is (at best) a 3rd round talent.
Really? Gerhart is nothing more than a FB with good speed? Watch some games. Watch when he gets the ball with space, hell, he is more agile than Dwyer laterally.

The OLine is a bit of a concern, but look when they played superior opponents, he still averages 5+ yards per carry. If anything, Dwyer's system is better for RB's. There are 3 legitimate threats on the field. The D has account for all of them. The QB (Nesbitt) chooses the best looking option, which is normally the one with the least defenders in the area. Look what happened when GT faced a good D. Against Iowa he averaged a staggering 3.5 yards per carry.
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Old 02-13-2010   #75
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Default Re: WalterFootball 2010 Mock Draft

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Really? Gerhart is nothing more than a FB with good speed? Watch some games. Watch when he gets the ball with space, hell, he is more agile than Dwyer laterally.

The OLine is a bit of a concern, but look when they played superior opponents, he still averages 5+ yards per carry. If anything, Dwyer's system is better for RB's. There are 3 legitimate threats on the field. The D has account for all of them. The QB (Nesbitt) chooses the best looking option, which is normally the one with the least defenders in the area. Look what happened when GT faced a good D. Against Iowa he averaged a staggering 3.5 yards per carry.
There isn't much difference between Gerhart and Dwyer running the ball or catching the ball. Gerhart is better at pass protection. Both are what the Texans need as a RB in terms of style.

The reason I've got Dwyer rated above Gerhart is Gerharts past knee injury history and his fumbling issues.

Without the past knee injuries Gerhart is a 2nd rd pick. I dropped him to the 3rd because of this.

Do you really want to draft a RB with an injury history to be the Texans feature RB? Ahman Green

Or a RB that has fumbling issues? Slaton

I like Gerhart but am wary of making him the Texans no.1 RB. Sign a FA RB and draft Gerhart in the 3rd rd. I've got no problems with this strategy
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Old 02-13-2010   #76
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Default Re: WalterFootball 2010 Mock Draft

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There isn't much difference between Gerhart and Dwyer running the ball or catching the ball. Gerhart is better at pass protection. Both are what the Texans need as a RB in terms of style.

The reason I've got Dwyer rated above Gerhart is Gerharts past knee injury history and his fumbling issues.

Without the past knee injuries Gerhart is a 2nd rd pick. I dropped him to the 3rd because of this.

Do you really want to draft a RB with an injury history to be the Texans feature RB? Ahman Green

Or a RB that has fumbling issues? Slaton

I like Gerhart but am wary of making him the Texans no.1 RB. Sign a FA RB and draft Gerhart in the 3rd rd. I've got no problems with this strategy
Gerhart will be a better NFL all around back because of his balance, his center of gravity is lower. Dwyer is a big, tall back & a much less elusive target to mark. Gerhart is short & stocky, very durable his entire Senior year & reliable hands.
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Old 02-13-2010   #77
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Default Re: WalterFootball 2010 Mock Draft

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Gerhart will be a better NFL all around back because of his balance, his center of gravity is lower. Dwyer is a big, tall back & a much less elusive target to mark. Gerhart is short & stocky, very durable his entire Senior year & reliable hands.
Gerhart in the 3rd would be the better value then it seems.

BL Do you have any concerns about Gerhart?

How would Gerhart compare to Hillis?
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Old 02-14-2010   #78
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Default Re: WalterFootball 2010 Mock Draft

I guess I just see things differently than you guys. I really think Dwyer is going to be a really good pro while Gerhart ehhh. We'll see.
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Old 02-14-2010   #79
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Default Re: WalterFootball 2010 Mock Draft

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Gerhart will be a better NFL all around back because of his balance, his center of gravity is lower. Dwyer is a big, tall back & a much less elusive target to mark. Gerhart is short & stocky, very durable his entire Senior year & reliable hands.
Dwyer looks to have great balance to me. I think he is quicker than Gerhart and gets more force behind his runs. I think he is more explosive. You can see that in the stats a little bit when you talk about long runs and catches. We'll see what happens when teams can get these guys out of their element during the combine. Gerhart and Dwyer can show teams what they can do in the pass catching/blocking game.

The question for me is, do you wait until the 3rd round to get Gerhart or do you make a move on a Jonathan Dwyer or Ryan Matthews earlier. Both have similiar, maybe better power than Gerhart and have better than 4.6 speed. One of them might be available in the 2nd round by our pick but it's doubtful. We'd have to trade down in the 1st round, or trade up in the 2nd round.

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Thats a pretty big assumption - Gerhart is a physical runner with good speed , shifty moves and great balance - the only question about him is his tendancy to not keep contact with the ball on three points ..... I think he may turn out to be a very good pro if he can solve that issue. I dont think he will have a long career because of the physicality of his running but I do think with the right coaching he will be a very good back. I'd take him in the thrid round without question - pending that two of the three of the following were addressed in the forst two rounds - DL , OL and secondary.
I'd take Gerhart in the 3rd round for sure, probably not in the 2nd round though. I expect him to run a 4.6 and that is pretty representative of his speed. He won't be a home-run hitter but may be able to wear others teams down with his physical style. Let's just hope he learns to protect the ball when he runs.
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Old 02-14-2010   #80
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Default Re: WalterFootball 2010 Mock Draft

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Gerhart in the 3rd would be the better value then it seems.

BL Do you have any concerns about Gerhart?

How would Gerhart compare to Hillis?
Toby seems pretty serious about Football, that is my only concern. don't give as much value to his forty as someone else like Spiller or McCluster who need that kind of speed to be elusive. His footwork in tight space is ten times that of Dwyer but in open space there is a similarity to Chuck Muncie (takes some time to reach top speed) that some team will covet.

Hillis was an underutilized FB @ Arkansas. I think he would fit perfectly in ZBS because he is a downhill runner like Gerhart with better than expected cut-back ability & you know he can block. I would have no problem trading a 5th rd. pick on him, his downside- injurys. Toby is clearly a much more productive & viable option worth a 2nd/3rd rd. grade
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