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Old 01-22-2010   #61
Corrosion
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Default Re: Possible 1st round draft picks for the Texans.

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post

The season is over, they are under contract, they are on the roster smart guy. We also have Quin at CB who played FS in college and could return there if Robinson returns. In fact as far as safety goes We have a legitamate starter in Pollard and Barber played good enough for the defense to finish out pretty well. Dont think Kubes needs to hope alot here.

NT, again we finished pretty well on D and were really coming around against the run with the current linup of DT's. I dont think Kubes has to hope alot here.

Og, well I dont see Kubes hoping alot here either, not when we drafted Caldwell in the third round last year and he got alot of playing time and started coming along and good OG's are available at a higher rate than any other position.

None of those compare to RB a position that takes maximum punishment and has the shortest shelf life of any position where we have one quality player that might not ever return to his previous form and a bunch of trash after him. So you see it doesnt go both ways.
Two thing I have to say about this post -

1) Quin was arguably our 2nd best Corner - Unless the position is significantly upgraded he likely stays there.

2) OG - With Brisiel and Pitts both injured and Pitts contract expired (and the weakness at the C spot) I think overlooking the OG spot is a HUGE mistake. There are only a few players I pass on Mike Iupati for in this draft. Dez Bryant , Joe Haden , C.J. Spiller and Earl Thomas are on that short list - very few if any are likely to be there when the Texans pick.
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Old 01-22-2010   #62
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Default Re: Possible 1st round draft picks for the Texans.

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The season is over, they are under contract, they are on the roster smart guy. We also have Quin at CB who played FS in college and could return there if Robinson returns. In fact as far as safety goes We have a legitamate starter in Pollard and Barber played good enough for the defense to finish out pretty well. Dont think Kubes needs to hope alot here.
Then why did you innitially say CURRENT DEPTH CHART? I normally tend to agree with you Mussop, but you thinking Quin is going to FS makes me realize that you are reaching to prove a nonexistent point. Quin is a damn good young cornerback and he is not going anywhere.

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NT, again we finished pretty well on D and were really coming around against the run with the current linup of DT's. I dont think Kubes has to hope alot here.
Our D still gave up 4.3 yards YPR this season. Jeff Zgonina might retire, Frank Okam IMO isnt commited to being a football player, so that leaves you Shaun Cody and DelJuan Robinson. So this position might be able to wait until the 2nd or 3rd for some help.

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Og, well I dont see Kubes hoping alot here either, not when we drafted Caldwell in the third round last year and he got alot of playing time and started coming along and good OG's are available at a higher rate than any other position.
Will Mike Brisiel and Chester Pitts come back strong? Are we going to be stuck with Studdard and Chris White? If so I think that position is in need of some serious help.

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None of those compare to RB a position that takes maximum punishment and has the shortest shelf life of any position where we have one quality player that might not ever return to his previous form and a bunch of trash after him. So you see it doesnt go both ways.
I still think FS is the biggest need. Then RB/OG/NT/CB. I might agree more with you If there was a RB worth the #20 overall selection. Spiller, Best, and Dwyer seem more like late first, early 2nd round picks. Now if we are able to trade back a few spots and draft one of those guys in the 25-32 range, then you have my interest.

Last edited by Blake; 01-22-2010 at 09:54 AM.
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Old 01-22-2010   #63
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Default Re: Possible 1st round draft picks for the Texans.

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.



Our D still gave up 4.3 yards YPR this season. Jeff Zgonina might retire, Frank Okam IMO isnt commited to being a football player, so that leaves you Shaun Cody and DelJuan Robinson. So this position might be able to wait until the 2nd or 3rd for some help.
Even if Zgonina doesnt retire - is it realistic for us to expect him to play as well next season as he did this past season ? He is older than dirt .... at some point there has to be a drop off in play.

Quote:
Will Mike Brisiel and Chester Pitts come back strong? Are we going to be stuck with Studdard and Chris White? If so I think that position is in need of some serious help.
Studdard White and Myers isnt gonna get it done. I can see one of the three as a regular starter and thats going to be Myers - I havent heard any news about either injury and Pitts contract is expired - this is a huge questionmark position.

Quote:
I still think FS is the biggest need. Then RB/OG/NT/CB. I might agree more with you If there was a RB worth the #20 overall selection. Spiller, Best, and Dwyer seem more like late first, early 2nd round picks. Now if we are able to trade back a few spots and draft one of those guys in the 25-32 range, then you have my interest.
I think OG is the #1 need at this point since I doubt any attention is given to the C spot. The OL has to be able to get a push in short yardage. With the combination of players we have for those interior spots we dont get that push.

I also place RB much lower in the order behind FS and NT and possibly CB depending upon Dunta.

I agree however that none of these backs seem to be early first round picks - they each have flaws. When I take an RB that early I want an instant impact player with very few flaws.

FA will affect these needs so a lot can change between now and draft day but this is how I see it for the time being. WR could actually move up the need list considerably depending upon Walter ....
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Old 01-22-2010   #64
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Default Re: Possible 1st round draft picks for the Texans.

Well said Corrosion.
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Old 01-22-2010   #65
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Default Re: Possible 1st round draft picks for the Texans.

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
That's why, in the RB draft thread, I was saying draft a RB high (1-3) and draft a RB low (4-7) this year. We're supposed to be a running team, well, make that an area of absolute strength.

Along with that RB, grab two interior linemen (DL/OL) and a FS in the first 4 rounds.
Exactly my idea too. I think most of us agree on team needs just differ on when to fill the need.
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Old 01-22-2010   #66
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Default Re: Possible 1st round draft picks for the Texans.

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Exactly my idea too. I think most of us agree on team needs just differ on when to fill the need.
That all depends upon who's available when they pick and how they have these players graded .... and how the team views their needs.

I dont know if they feel the same as many of us do about their needs ...
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Old 01-22-2010   #67
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Default Re: Possible 1st round draft picks for the Texans.

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Slaton/Foster/Moats > Wilson/Busing/Russell

FS is a much greater need.

If the FSs we are targeting are gone I would rather see us draft Iupati. If its decided that Iupati is too much of a stretch at our pick then I'd like to see Price. RB's have the shortest careers!! Fix the other problems before using a top pick on a RB.
I disagree in that it is not only a matter of numbers and who may or may not play but the importance of the postion in our schemes. While both FS and RB are important, Kubiac wants to run to set up the pass. He seems to prefer an apprx 60 -40 run/pass play scheme. Keep in mind Foster while looking good, did so in only 3 games. Historically, the safety positions have not seemed of particular focus of Smith/Kubiac. Your comment about RBs having shortest careers means little as focus is primarily only on the season that you are in or facing if the off season.
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Old 01-22-2010   #68
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Default Re: Possible 1st round draft picks for the Texans.

i dont think we get a safty with the 1st pick because w ehave pollard so i say we get 1 in free agency or later in the draft


i think we get dt cb or rb with 1st pick
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Old 01-22-2010   #69
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Default Re: Possible 1st round draft picks for the Texans.

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That all depends upon who's available when they pick and how they have these players graded .... and how the team views their needs.

I dont know if they feel the same as many of us do about their needs ...
I think we can be pretty confident that they don't.
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Old 01-22-2010   #70
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Default Re: Possible 1st round draft picks for the Texans.

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I disagree in that it is not only a matter of numbers and who may or may not play but the importance of the postion in our schemes. While both FS and RB are important, Kubiac wants to run to set up the pass. He seems to prefer an apprx 60 -40 run/pass play scheme. Keep in mind Foster while looking good, did so in only 3 games. Historically, the safety positions have not seemed of particular focus of Smith/Kubiac. Your comment about RBs having shortest careers means little as focus is primarily only on the season that you are in or facing if the off season.
Same could be said about the RB position.
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Old 01-22-2010   #71
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Default Re: Possible 1st round draft picks for the Texans.

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I think we can be pretty confident that they don't.
Soon I'll have to banish myself to the NSZ
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Old 01-22-2010   #72
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Default Re: Possible 1st round draft picks for the Texans.

Consider the following. Texans are on the clock in round 1. The following players are on the board, in no order of importance:
Earl Thomas
Dez Bryant
Dan Williams

What do you do? I think this has a reasonable probability of coming to pass (so to speak).
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Old 01-22-2010   #73
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Default Re: Possible 1st round draft picks for the Texans.

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Consider the following. Texans are on the clock in round 1. The following players are on the board, in no order of importance:
Earl Thomas
Dez Bryant
Dan Williams

What do you do? I think this has a reasonable probability of coming to pass (so to speak).
Its hard for me to see one of those three on the board at 19 or 20 much less all three .... each would likely have to have a poor combine performance and or several other players blow the scouts away.

But if the three are there and Im at the helm , Im taking Earl Thomas - call me a UT homer if you like ...
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Old 01-22-2010   #74
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Default Re: Possible 1st round draft picks for the Texans.

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Originally Posted by rickyb View Post
Consider the following. Texans are on the clock in round 1. The following players are on the board, in no order of importance:
Earl Thomas
Dez Bryant
Dan Williams

What do you do? I think this has a reasonable probability of coming to pass (so to speak).
Easy decision. I'm taking Thomas.
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Old 01-22-2010   #75
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Default Re: Possible 1st round draft picks for the Texans.

Kubes said this offseason that getting the running game going was job no.1.

Kubes said last offseason that getting more pressure on the QB was job no.1. Hence selecting Cush and Barwin in rds 1/2.

This year I believe that OG and RB will be addressed in rds 1-3.

I think Smithiak will take one of the highly rated OL in the draft Iupati is my favorite. If none of the highest rated OL are available Smithiak will probably reach and take Dwyer at 20 and fill the OG spot in rd 2-3. I also belive they will fill one of the OG spots in FA.

I think people are selling Dwyer short because of the offense he played in.

Remember Earl played in the wishbone for 3 yrs at UT. He did alrirght in the Nfl.

Dwyer reminds me of Stewart.

The combination of Dwyr and Slaton, with an upgraded OL and AJ/JJ on the outside would be deadly. This would be the fastest and most significant way to upgarde the team as a whole. IMHO

BAH got it right Thomas. Easy Decision
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Old 01-22-2010   #76
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Default Re: Possible 1st round draft picks for the Texans.

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BAH got it right Thomas. Easy Decision
Three for three so far .....
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Old 01-22-2010   #77
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Default Re: Possible 1st round draft picks for the Texans.

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Originally Posted by rickyb View Post
Consider the following. Texans are on the clock in round 1. The following players are on the board, in no order of importance:
Earl Thomas
Dez Bryant
Dan Williams

What do you do? I think this has a reasonable probability of coming to pass (so to speak).
If Earl is there he should be the pick without question. Second choice Bryant. Don't want a DT in the first.
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Old 01-22-2010   #78
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Default Re: Possible 1st round draft picks for the Texans.

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Originally Posted by rickyb View Post
Consider the following. Texans are on the clock in round 1. The following players are on the board, in no order of importance:
Earl Thomas
Dez Bryant
Dan Williams

What do you do? I think this has a reasonable probability of coming to pass (so to speak).
Thats a tough one. First I would give Cinci, Baltimore and Green Bay a call and see if I could get them in a bidding war over Bryant. If that didnt work and I had to choose it would come down to Bryant and Thomas.

Thomas fills a need and is a very good player who would complement Pollard well. On the other hand he is small framed guy that plays physical and could have problems holding up in the very physical world of the NFL.

Bryant is a top ten talent and would be a huge bargain at #20. He would eliminate teams from being able to double AJ and a combination of Johnson, Od and Bryant would be down right scary. On the other hand WR isnt really a need persay. And I would have to consider what the reason a top ten talent fell all the way to #20 and consider the risk.

Either way were getting an instant starter and both would be an upgrade over what we currently have at there positions. Since I couldnt pull off a trade down and I have to choose I have to go with value here and take Bryant. Thats if he passes a thorough screening of course.

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Old 01-22-2010   #79
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Default Re: Possible 1st round draft picks for the Texans.

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Then why did you innitially say CURRENT DEPTH CHART? I normally tend to agree with you Mussop, but you thinking Quin is going to FS makes me realize that you are reaching to prove a nonexistent point. Quin is a damn good young cornerback and he is not going anywhere.

I just cut and pasted "the current depth chart" to show that the safety position has more than the 3 players you made it out to have. I left the CB's in there to show the secondary as a whole. As for Quin, I love him at CB. I was just suggesting that if Robinson is resigned that gives us three quality CB's and if we were in a pinch he could play FS as he did in college. Better him at FS with Robinson and Reeves at CB than Busing at S with Robinson and Quin at CB if we were stricken by injury.

Besides just because I think RB is more a need doesnt suggest I think S isnt a position that needs to be addressed.


Our D still gave up 4.3 yards YPR this season. Jeff Zgonina might retire, Frank Okam IMO isnt commited to being a football player, so that leaves you Shaun Cody and DelJuan Robinson. So this position might be able to wait until the 2nd or 3rd for some help.

Im going to steal a qoute from dalemurphy. "We were 4th or 5th in the NFL against the run after week #3. Everyone is very young! The scheme was simplified because of all the inexperience on the team. More disguise and nuance will be implemented this off-season.".

But I do agree with your assesment that some talent does need to be added. I really believe they will go after at least one quality rotation DT in FA.



Will Mike Brisiel and Chester Pitts come back strong? Are we going to be stuck with Studdard and Chris White? If so I think that position is in need of some serious help.

Agree here also.I just think finding good guards is not as hard as finding players at our other need positions. I also believe if we do not resign Pitts we will sign someone in FA. That player along with what we have and possibly a later round pick will be enough to get our OL to generate a running game to go along with our already potent passing game.

I still think FS is the biggest need. Then RB/OG/NT/CB. I might agree more with you If there was a RB worth the #20 overall selection. Spiller, Best, and Dwyer seem more like late first, early 2nd round picks. Now if we are able to trade back a few spots and draft one of those guys in the 25-32 range, then you have my interest.
Do you think Barber played bad at the end of this year? He is still young and gained valuable experience with all the playing time he got. I know WE all want a super ballhawking type back there but Kubiak has said more than once they like their S to be interchangeable. So I dont think they see it as big a need as WE do.

Currently we do not have a single back that you can say is capable of starting 16 games next year and performing at a high level. If we dont sign a quality back via FA (and it doesnt look like there are going to be any) then we better get one in the draft. You know as well as I do that every round you wait the percentage or chance of getting a legitamate RB goes down.

We struck gold with Slaton in the 3rd round (well at least for one year) This draft isnt a strong draft for running backs. If we dont get one early our running game will continue to go backwards. To top that off Kubiak himself has said fixing the running game is priority one.

If this post is all over the place forgive me I am tired and a little scatter brained. I need to take me a little nappy.
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Old 01-22-2010   #80
rickyb
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Default Re: Possible 1st round draft picks for the Texans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
Easy decision. I'm taking Thomas.
I'm just asking the questions. I had heard lots of mb chatter on DT, so I thought I would push a bit.

Course, another guy folks are falling in love with, perhaps justifiable so, is Iupati.

If Iupati, Dez, and Thomas were on the board, the decision is not so easy for me. mussop's analysis of Dez's impact on our offense resonates with me. Conversely, OG is a position of need. So is FS.

I just want people thinking about opportunity costs, and had hoped to stimulate discussion.
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