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Old 01-21-2010   #21
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Default Re: Mel Kiper Mock is on Insider

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No, my reasoning is this: we have invested in Amobi Okoye and adding Price won't help matters unless you want Okoye taking on two blockers and letting Price shoot the gaps then go ahead. Actually, this might work considering that Okoye has been gaining weight and is going towards 320-lbs range.
You don't need a 350 lb NT to stop the run. If you didn't notice the D did just fine last year stuffing the run. We were 10th in rush yds against and 14th in avg yds per carry against. That's a little above average. We did that while in the 1st year of a new system that included us giving up 250 rush yds a game in the first 3 games of the season. This defense proved they can stop the run w/o a 360 lb guy in the middle. We actually had a top 10 defense during the last 2 months of the season, but injuries on offense, turnovers, and redzone inconsistency doomed us once again.

We run a 4-3, not a 3-4. A NT is not a necessity. This obsession with it is getting quite annoying actually. Price had an excellent career in college and he can play at the pro level. If he can shoot gaps and make plays then that's all we need. Besides, if one of the DT's is eating a double team then that leaves Demeco & Co. free to make plays. I can live with that.

Also, about the whole depth thing. I doubt he would be on the field every snap. DT's add depth because they are always rotating. At least that's my interpretation of Kiper's analysis.
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Old 01-21-2010   #22
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Default Re: Mel Kiper Mock is on Insider

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You don't need a 350 lb NT to stop the run. If you didn't notice the D did just fine last year stuffing the run. We were 10th in rush yds against and 14th in avg yds per carry against. That's a little above average. We did that while in the 1st year of a new system that included us giving up 250 rush yds a game in the first 3 games of the season. This defense proved they can stop the run w/o a 360 lb guy in the middle. We actually had a top 10 defense during the last 2 months of the season, but injuries on offense, turnovers, and redzone inconsistency doomed us once again.

We run a 4-3, not a 3-4. A NT is not a necessity. This obsession with it is getting quite annoying actually. Price had an excellent career in college and he can play at the pro level. If he can shoot gaps and make plays then that's all we need. Besides, if one of the DT's is eating a double team then that leaves Demeco & Co. free to make plays. I can live with that.

Also, about the whole depth thing. I doubt he would be on the field every snap. DT's add depth because they are always rotating. At least that's my interpretation of Kiper's analysis.
REP!


I Agree with everything you said. Its obvious that Smithiaks idea of winning football is having a high powered offense and a speedy defense that flies around the ball and can get after the QB. As for the bolded part, you can never have enough talent in the trenches.
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Old 01-21-2010   #23
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Default Re: Mel Kiper Mock is on Insider

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REP!


I Agree with everything you said. Its obvious that Smithiaks idea of winning football is having a high powered offense and a speedy defense that flies around the ball and can get after the QB. As for the bolded part, you can never have enough talent in the trenches.
Just seems like they ALMOST get to the QB very consistantly.

A step short on so many occasions .... Why ? I havent figured it out.
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Old 01-21-2010   #24
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Default Re: Mel Kiper Mock is on Insider

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Just seems like they ALMOST get to the QB very consistantly.

A step short on so many occasions .... Why ? I havent figured it out.
We play in a tough division with Garrard and VY as very mobile QBs and Manning as the best in the NFL at getting the ball out. For a little perspective though, Manning was sacked 10 times this year - 4 of them by the Texans. So we got to Manning 4 times in 2 games and the rest of the league got to him 6 times in 14 games.
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Old 01-21-2010   #25
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Default Re: Mel Kiper Mock is on Insider

It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle.

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Old 01-21-2010   #26
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Default Re: Mel Kiper Mock is on Insider

Given how successful we've been at drafting defensive lineman so far in the 1st round (Babin - fail, TJ - fail, Okoye - fail, Williams - success), it'll only take us 10-12 more years before we've got a nice DL going!

I really, really hope we don't use a low 1st rounder to draft a DT. Every year there are 2-4 "can't miss" DT prospects that go in the 1st. I really, really don't want one this year
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Old 01-21-2010   #27
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Default Re: Mel Kiper Mock is on Insider

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I've wanted the Texans to try and seek a trade to get Sean Rodgers for years now. Detroit traded him for not that much and Cleveland was rumored to have had him on the block last season. As great as he is, the Browns are far from being any real contender for a long time or at least two seasons and with picks, they could build their team up better that way. I'd love for the Texans to try and make a trade to get Sean Rogers. The guy is a freaking beast at DT and I'd have no problems giving up a 2nd rounder and other picks or a player possibly for him.
Sean Rodgers is a turd.
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Old 01-21-2010   #28
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Default Re: Mel Kiper Mock is on Insider

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Given how successful we've been at drafting defensive lineman so far in the 1st round (Babin - fail, TJ - fail, Okoye - fail, Williams - success), it'll only take us 10-12 more years before we've got a nice DL going!

I really, really hope we don't use a low 1st rounder to draft a DT. Every year there are 2-4 "can't miss" DT prospects that go in the 1st. I really, really don't want one this year
LZ Quote After talking with some scouts and personnel mean over the years, I'm starting to realize that you can never have enough good defensive linemen and you should never stop trying to build your defensive line until you have been successful. I still believe pass rushing is a major need for the Texans whether it comes from the DE or DT spot.
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Old 01-21-2010   #29
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Default Re: Mel Kiper Mock is on Insider

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Just seems like they ALMOST get to the QB very consistantly.

A step short on so many occasions .... Why ? I havent figured it out.

I think it's because of the simplicity we had to run on defense this year. Trying to implement a new system with new players and starting a rookie at LB and CB, while also starting a SS that wasn't even with the team until week 2 forced Bush to keep things very simple.

Next season, Bush will be able to do with with disguising of coverage, etc... and that will cause the QBs to hold on to the ball too long more often. I think this defense should take a significant jump in year two. Barring significant injury issues, I think we're looking at a top 5 defense!
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Old 01-21-2010   #30
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Default Re: Mel Kiper Mock is on Insider

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Would be extremely disappointed if we took a DT in the first this year. Will Price be effective from the first snap he takes? Really hard to tell with DTs.

I think it's a high risk pick and we're in a position next year where we are facing a brutal schedule on paper and we're going to need someone to make a hands down immediate impact with our first rounder.

I like the trade idea proposal here. Except I feel unless Gerhart blows it up in the combine and pro day he'll be there in the second when our next pick comes up. I however, feel like Iupati wouldn't be there so he'd be my first round pick. Set him at one of the guards, get a push for our OL, we'd have a strong backfield of Slaton, Gerhart and Foster. Who knows maybe Jeremiah Johnson will be back healthy and make a case for himself at the third spot.

I'd throw money at Casey Hampton in FA and/or just look for a big body later in the draft. If only this staff could figure out how to get a fire under Okam.
Beerlover is pushing a DT that is big, strong and fast for 4th round. I think Dwyer, CJ Spiller,Gerhart will be gone by our 2nd pick. Best and ANd Matthews could be there but not the "bigger"back that I want. Anthony Dixon is more my style and has a better chance of being at round #2. Most of us that are Gerhart fans are hoping he does not blow up at combine. I agree that Iupati is good but y concern is a 16 games schedule at his size. I think Gerhart is better than all backs with closest being Dwyer who will prob go ahead of TG. Iupati is not that much better than Asamoah 6'4"315 5.08 and comes from a ZBS. If it was a guarantee we could get TG in 2nd and Earl Thomas gone in first, I would prob take Iupati #20 & hope he keeps his wind and does not get injured 2nd half of season. JJ is an unknown quantity & needs to worry about making the roster.
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Old 01-21-2010   #31
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Default Re: Mel Kiper Mock is on Insider

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It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle.

and that is why I'm a lover not a fighter.
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Old 01-21-2010   #32
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Default Re: Mel Kiper Mock is on Insider

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Beerlover is pushing a DT that is big, strong and fast for 4th round. I think Dwyer, CJ Spiller,Gerhart will be gone by our 2nd pick. Best and ANd Matthews could be there but not the "bigger"back that I want. Anthony Dixon is more my style and has a better chance of being at round #2. Most of us that are Gerhart fans are hoping he does not blow up at combine. I agree that Iupati is good but y concern is a 16 games schedule at his size. I think Gerhart is better than all backs with closest being Dwyer who will prob go ahead of TG. Iupati is not that much better than Asamoah 6'4"315 5.08 and comes from a ZBS. If it was a guarantee we could get TG in 2nd and Earl Thomas gone in first, I would prob take Iupati #20 & hope he keeps his wind and does not get injured 2nd half of season. JJ is an unknown quantity & needs to worry about making the roster.
Why is that a concern?
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Old 01-21-2010   #33
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Default Re: Mel Kiper Mock is on Insider

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Beerlover is pushing a DT that is big, strong and fast for 4th round. I think Dwyer, CJ Spiller,Gerhart will be gone by our 2nd pick. Best and ANd Matthews could be there but not the "bigger"back that I want. Anthony Dixon is more my style and has a better chance of being at round #2. Most of us that are Gerhart fans are hoping he does not blow up at combine. I agree that Iupati is good but y concern is a 16 games schedule at his size. I think Gerhart is better than all backs with closest being Dwyer who will prob go ahead of TG. Iupati is not that much better than Asamoah 6'4"315 5.08 and comes from a ZBS. If it was a guarantee we could get TG in 2nd and Earl Thomas gone in first, I would prob take Iupati #20 & hope he keeps his wind and does not get injured 2nd half of season. JJ is an unknown quantity & needs to worry about making the roster.
I guess it comes down to some people having preferences for a stout defense or a potent offense. In today's NFL it's difficult to have both.

Myself, I'm just a let's get into the playoffs guy, that's why I think we should go ahead and top off our offense because it's real close to being elite. We just have to stop settling for FG tries and put it in the endzone.

Agree that Spiller and Dwyer will likely be gone in the first. Gerhart's going to have to blow up at the combine IMO to get selected in the first and a few teams might find value in him early second. For him it's not going to be his 40 time that places him in the draft, it's likely to be the agility tests. I'm inclined to believe though that he'll likely be there with our second pick.

For where we are picking if Thomas is there that's probably the only defensive player I'd be happy with. I'd be majorly upset with taking a DT even if we traded down a few slots. Looking at next year's schedule it's important to hit the ground running. We're going absolutely need big contributions from our first and second round picks. Can't afford project picks this year.
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Old 01-21-2010   #34
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Default Re: Mel Kiper Mock is on Insider

i've already given my plan as to what I would try to do in another thread.

but

I'm begining to warm to the idea of taking Dan Williams in the 1st. U of Tenn DT's historically have had a low bust rate. (Haynesworth,Henderson for ex.)

Kyle Calloway is an OL that Smithiak should be looking at in the 3rd. He is a big mobile guy that played in a ZBS at Iowa. Calloway can play anywhere on the OL but LT. He played OG in his bowl game against Ga.Tech and was quite impressive in the run game as well as pass protection.
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Old 01-21-2010   #35
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Default Re: Mel Kiper Mock is on Insider

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Why is that a concern?
a 6'5"330 probably more by game 1 rookie used to playing 12-13 games against college guys has to go up against NFL DEs and LBs for 16 games? You don't see that as a concern? Look at Duane Brown for example his rookie year. He ran out of gas very early and that was with Salaam spelling him every other series initially.
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Old 01-21-2010   #36
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I guess it comes down to some people having preferences for a stout defense or a potent offense. In today's NFL it's difficult to have both.

Myself, I'm just a let's get into the playoffs guy, that's why I think we should go ahead and top off our offense because it's real close to being elite. We just have to stop settling for FG tries and put it in the endzone.

Agree that Spiller and Dwyer will likely be gone in the first. Gerhart's going to have to blow up at the combine IMO to get selected in the first and a few teams might find value in him early second. For him it's not going to be his 40 time that places him in the draft, it's likely to be the agility tests. I'm inclined to believe though that he'll likely be there with our second pick.

For where we are picking if Thomas is there that's probably the only defensive player I'd be happy with. I'd be majorly upset with taking a DT even if we traded down a few slots. Looking at next year's schedule it's important to hit the ground running. We're going absolutely need big contributions from our first and second round picks. Can't afford project picks this year.
GS, you & I are not that far apart. I am not advocating a DT in first or any round on my board. I think a LG to replace Studdard, especially if Pitts returns productively and a solid power back like Gerhart "tops off" the O. I have been putting off my most recent mock while working with Beerlover and Rmartin 65 on one. I guess I should post so all will know where I am coming from.
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Old 01-21-2010   #37
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Default Re: Mel Kiper Mock is on Insider

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I think it's because of the simplicity we had to run on defense this year. Trying to implement a new system with new players and starting a rookie at LB and CB, while also starting a SS that wasn't even with the team until week 2 forced Bush to keep things very simple.

Next season, Bush will be able to do with with disguising of coverage, etc... and that will cause the QBs to hold on to the ball too long more often. I think this defense should take a significant jump in year two. Barring significant injury issues, I think we're looking at a top 5 defense!
I don't think our secondary will allow us to be a top 5 D. We either need to add in a top FS or we need a more consistent pass rush to help them out. Bush's scheming won't help against the 10 yard cushions we have to give to make up for lack of speed.
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Old 01-21-2010   #38
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You don't need a 350 lb NT to stop the run. If you didn't notice the D did just fine last year stuffing the run. We were 10th in rush yds against and 14th in avg yds per carry against. That's a little above average. We did that while in the 1st year of a new system that included us giving up 250 rush yds a game in the first 3 games of the season. This defense proved they can stop the run w/o a 360 lb guy in the middle. We actually had a top 10 defense during the last 2 months of the season, but injuries on offense, turnovers, and redzone inconsistency doomed us once again.

We run a 4-3, not a 3-4. A NT is not a necessity. This obsession with it is getting quite annoying actually. Price had an excellent career in college and he can play at the pro level. If he can shoot gaps and make plays then that's all we need. Besides, if one of the DT's is eating a double team then that leaves Demeco & Co. free to make plays. I can live with that.

Also, about the whole depth thing. I doubt he would be on the field every snap. DT's add depth because they are always rotating. At least that's my interpretation of Kiper's analysis.


If we need a DT for depth or have him rotate in, why use a 1st round pick on a DT when there are plenty of solid players available in the later rounds?
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Old 01-21-2010   #39
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Default Re: Mel Kiper Mock is on Insider

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
a 6'5"330 probably more by game 1 rookie used to playing 12-13 games against college guys has to go up against NFL DEs and LBs for 16 games? You don't see that as a concern? Look at Duane Brown for example his rookie year. He ran out of gas very early and that was with Salaam spelling him every other series initially.
I dont see what his size has to do with it. The guy is a physical specimen he is not your average fat guy OL.
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Old 01-21-2010   #40
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Default Re: Mel Kiper Mock is on Insider

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
We play in a tough division with Garrard and VY as very mobile QBs and Manning as the best in the NFL at getting the ball out. For a little perspective though, Manning was sacked 10 times this year - 4 of them by the Texans. So we got to Manning 4 times in 2 games and the rest of the league got to him 6 times in 14 games.
Which in my opinion is the best reason we need a real NT. Minnesota is probably the only team that is as fierce against the run as they are rushing the passer. But that is what I would like.

Let's free up our Linebakers to cover the short & intermediate routes, and spy the QB.

Let's stop the run with our front 4, so our secondary don't bite so hard on the play action.
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