Texans' Offense and Schaub, Poor Match

[gafftop]

I heard on the radio MS can be successful only if all the planets align. Well the planets aren't aligned in the Texans offense. Let's look more closely. Even when 110% MS is not the most mobile QB. MS is not the most durable QB. MS not great arm stength. The Texans' line is not the most dominant line. The lack of mobility (especially last week against the Jets, ankle) of MS means that he can't buy any time and make something happen unlike some other QB's that are able to scramble and allow the receivers to create. Therefore we can't utilize AJ physical talents on a busted play. This is even made worse because MS can't affford to take a hit, unlike some QB's that can stay in the pocket until the last second and let the play develope. If we had a QB that could take a hit we would gain some time, or if we had a QB that could scramble and buy some time we could maybe make some conpletions and maybe come up with the big play. We have the receivers to do this but due to the above factors we were unable to do this last week against the Jets. That is why the offense was so pitiful. I understand the PROBLEM is our offensive line. But our offensive line may be just what is was last week for the entire season. The more i write the more depressed I become. The defense only needs to shut down AJ with double coverage and get after MS and we have last week's outcome again this week. I guess what I am getting at is if MS is not healthy and mobile and Kubiak is determined to play MS no matter what like last week, we will have a repeat of last week. I was a Kubiak fan until last week. His inability to get the team up and prepared along with the POOR judgement in playing MS really makes me wonder. I guess getting back to the title, with our Oline we would be better off with a very mobile QB or a QB that can take a hit every once in a while. We have neither in MS. Would appreciate comment that give me some hope. thanks

[barrett]

Meh,

Schaub is extremely accurate and makes good reads for the most part. I think he's very good for this system.

I'm going to see your pessimism and raise you optimism.

[gafftop]

I agree behind an average to above average line Schaub would be above average to good. I hope his ankle injury was the main reason for the poor performance week 1. But if this is true WHY DID HE PLAY SO LONG or play at all. Can't the coaches vsiualize what is going to happen or a least see it. I know off subject.

[TheRealJoker]

So you're saying because the OL is bad we need to find a replacement for Schaub? I think it would be a lot easier to upgrade the OL's weaknesses than it would be to find a QB who could outperform Schaub behind the same OL.

[ObsiWan]

Originally Posted by gafftop

I heard on the radio MS can be successful only if all the planets align. Well the planets aren't aligned in the Texans offense. Let's look more closely. Even when 110% MS is not the most mobile QB. MS is not the most durable QB. MS not great arm stength. The Texans' line is not the most dominant line. The lack of mobility (especially last week against the Jets, ankle) of MS means that he can't buy any time and make something happen unlike some other QB's that are able to scramble and allow the receivers to create. Therefore we can't utilize AJ physical talents on a busted play. This is even made worse because MS can't affford to take a hit, unlike some QB's that can stay in the pocket until the last second and let the play develope. If we had a QB that could take a hit we would gain some time, or if we had a QB that could scramble and buy some time we could maybe make some conpletions and maybe come up with the big play. We have the receivers to do this but due to the above factors we were unable to do this last week against the Jets. That is why the offense was so pitiful. I understand the PROBLEM is our offensive line. But our offensive line may be just what is was last week for the entire season. The more i write the more depressed I become. The defense only needs to shut down AJ with double coverage and get after MS and we have last week's outcome again this week. I guess what I am getting at is if MS is not healthy and mobile and Kubiak is determined to play MS no matter what like last week, we will have a repeat of last week. I was a Kubiak fan until last week. His inability to get the team up and prepared along with the POOR judgement in playing MS really makes me wonder. I guess getting back to the title, with our Oline we would be better off with a very mobile QB or a QB that can take a hit every once in a while. We have neither in MS. Would appreciate comment that give me some hope. thanks

There's no excuse for a QB not to make himself a moving target. We used to get on HWWNBN for not moving around or stepping up in the pocket. Schaub makes much better decisions and makes his reads better than HWWNBN but he's not any better at doing the little dance in the pocket to make himself a moving target and thereby help his line protect him.

Neither Brady nor Big Ben nor Peyton are running QBs - or even all that "mobile" - but they move around enough to buy that extra half second that's the difference between a completion and a sack.

The more I watch Schaub, the more I'm reminded of Drew Bledsoe. If you give him time, he'll kill you. But he cannot reliably create that extra second or so on his own.

Either Kubiak needs to teach Schaub that skill or we need a stouter O-line.

[TimeKiller]

I recognize that he's got very medium speed but if the OL isn't providing a pocket to dance in that leaves a plodder in space making plays with an average arm. I also think it's weak that Schaub isn't given leeway with the offense when his strength is decision making. If this offense needed a John Elway level QB to force it down defenses throats why did we trade through the draft for his opposite?

[CloakNNNdagger]

Big Ben last week it was written that he "bought" time with a little step here and there.......giving him an average of 4 seconds.

It'll be interesting to see if MS buys himself anymore than last week's 2 seconds............or if he buys himself a trip to the hospital.

[eriadoc]

Would Ben Roethlisberger be better or worse behind this offensive line?

[Corrosion]

Originally Posted by eriadoc

Would Ben Roethlisberger be better or worse behind this offensive line?

Worse , this team doesnt have the threat of pounding the ball with the running game that the Steelers do.

[dalemurphy]

Originally Posted by Corrosion

Worse , this team doesnt have the threat of pounding the ball with the running game that the Steelers do.

This isn't 2005. We actually have a much better running game than the Steelers. Their rushing attack is atrocious. Jeff Fisher actually guaranteed that the Texans would be in the Top 5 in the NFL running the ball this year. He told Tim and Pat on Sirius to file that away.

[eriadoc]

My point is that Big Ben holds the ball too long at times - a lot of the time, in fact. As a result, he takes too many sacks, but he also makes plays for his team. He makes those plays because his line does hold up more often than not. When a QB here holds the ball too long, he just gets creamed and it's looked at as a bad thing by the QB (which it is, but everything's relative).

What we need here in Houston is a QB that can make a mediocre pass blocking line look better than they are. When the running game is clicking, Matt's that guy. But Schaub is not the guy that is going to be able to play at an elevated level when the pass rush is coming relentlessly, IMO. Our line doesn't hold up long enough, often enough, and he doesn't have the pre-snap recognition and playcall control that someone like Manning has.

[gafftop]

I guess I am trying to figure out if we can salvage THIS season. Again I agree a better offensive line is the answer and very possibly that is the ONLY answer.Nothing else may make a substantial difference in the overall outcome. I do think Ben would do better than MS did against the Jets only because he could have bought some time and probably had some success. Would it have made a difference in the overall outcome? Maybe, maybe not. Little things can make differences. If Slaton had not fumbled that might have changed the course of the game.The question is would Ben have survived, I think so. If MS did the same thing and took the same hits would he have survived? I think the Texans/MS by design or by instinct have decided that MS can not afford to get hit and take a chance of injury. AGAIN I hope the ankle was the reason for the poor showing. And again I think MS is just barely mobile enoughwhen healthy to be effective against a good pass rushing defense with our offensive line. Do I think Gross/Orv would be better, I am not sure but I am afraid we will find out. Let's just hope that NY Jets have a GREAT defense and from here on it will get easier.Again all above my opinion only.

[gafftop]

I have heard it a couple of different times that MS is limited by the coaching staff as to making changes. If this is true I think it is wrong unless I am missing something. When do they turn the speakers off? Well a lot of things change after those speakers go out. Unless MS is Carrlike I think he needs the opportunity to make changes. If he is that Carrlike ...........

[GuerillaBlack]

Originally Posted by ObsiWan

There's no excuse for a QB not to make himself a moving target. We used to get on HWWNBN for not moving around or stepping up in the pocket. Schaub makes much better decisions and makes his reads better than HWWNBN but he's not any better at doing the little dance in the pocket to make himself a moving target and thereby help his line protect him.

Neither Brady nor Big Ben nor Peyton are running QBs - or even all that "mobile" - but they move around enough to buy that extra half second that's the difference between a completion and a sack.

The more I watch Schaub, the more I'm reminded of Drew Bledsoe. If you give him time, he'll kill you. But he cannot reliably create that extra second or so on his own.

Either Kubiak needs to teach Schaub that skill or we need a stouter O-line.

I wish Schaub was as durable as David Carr though.

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

This isn't 2005. We actually have a much better running game than the Steelers. Their rushing attack is atrocious. Jeff Fisher actually guaranteed that the Texans would be in the Top 5 in the NFL running the ball this year. He told Tim and Pat on Sirius to file that away.

This is true. The Steelers running game has dropped, significantly I think. Willie Parker has dropped off and Mendenhall isn't look too hot.

[Speedy]

Looking for any "it ain't a bad as we think" point I grab on to after the turd they layed last week, I come up with this;

last year in game one against the Steelers, they layed a turd in that one too. Slaton had just 43 yards (3.3) and the Texans had 243 yards of offense. Most of that was garbage time yardage in the 2nd half.

Granted, they showed a little more life against the Steelers than they did last Sunday, but still, it was a pretty bad day offensively, especially in the 1st half.

In the 2nd game last year, against the Titans, Slaton rolled up 116 yards (6.4), and they had 317 yards of offense. Now they turned the ball over 3 times in that game, but my point is, after a bad outing offensively in the 1st game, they came out in the 2nd game, against the Titans and their tough as nails defense, and moved the ball, RAN the ball.

This year game one was a stinker offensively like last year. Now here comes the Titans again in game 2. Maybe they get it going again like last year. Just don't have the turnovers and win the game this time.

As horrible as last week was, it didn't end the season. I expect a much better game this week.

[ObsiWan]

The Texans are tied in with Methodist Hospital right? Why can't they have the doctors transplant Matt Schaub's brain into Orlovsky's body?


Orlovsky has the stronger arm and is younger and faster and less fragile (he survived a whole year behind a Lions' O-line that gave up 52 sacks didn't he). With Matt's brain, maybe he would know where the end line is and learn not to lock onto one guy.

[TheRealJoker]

Big Ben holds the ball longer than the average QB to give his WRs time to get open. He's unique in that he's a big tough mobile QB who can shake off tacklers to buy extra time in the pocket and can take the hits NFL DL dish out. He doesn't have the same ability as a Manning/Brady to make the OL look better, in fact he actually makes the OL look worse. Manning/Brady will get rid of the ball in under 3 seconds and find an open target. I dont think Big Ben's vision is as good as those two so he needs to wait for the WRs to get open a bit more before delivering the football.

With him on our team the pass blocking OL would look even worse. Although I think he would be able to connect on far more big plays than we've seen given the talent we have in the skill positions (Stud WR/posession WR/2 deep threats WRs/slot WR/ pro bowl TE/homerun threat RB) and his ability to shake off tacklers to buy time in the pocket.

[ObsiWan]

Originally Posted by TheRealJoker

Big Ben holds the ball longer than the average QB to give his WRs time to get open. He's unique in that he's a big tough mobile QB who can shake off tacklers to buy extra time in the pocket and can take the hits NFL DL dish out. He doesn't have the same ability as a Manning/Brady to make the OL look better, in fact he actually makes the OL look worse. Manning/Brady will get rid of the ball in under 3 seconds and find an open target. I dont think Big Ben's vision is as good as those two so he needs to wait for the WRs to get open a bit more before delivering the football.

With him on our team the pass blocking OL would look even worse. Although I think he would be able to connect on far more big plays than we've seen given the talent we have in the skill positions (Stud WR/posession WR/2 deep threats WRs/slot WR/ pro bowl TE/homerun threat RB) and his ability to shake off tacklers to buy time in the pocket.

So what you're saying is, behind our line, Big Ben would take more sacks than Schaub but get better results; i.e., more big plays/TD passes...?

[gafftop]

I would agree with that. Ben would get the sacks but he would not be bailing all the time. He would make some plays with AJ that Schaub will not. Ben is stlill looking to make a play while Schaub is just looking to throw the ball away. Just the way it is not good , not bad, just different mindset. If Schaub played like Ben he wouldn't last very long and I think he knows that and the coaches know that and coach him accordingly.

[Scooter]

schaub's perfect for our offense. smart, extremely accurate, makes quick reads, and has arguably the best play fake in football. arent we a run first team, basically west coast in the passing game, and rely on play action to get seperation deep and move out of the pocket? those are schaub's strengths. big ben's an oddity and it's hard to even guess at how he'd perform here. he's often got 3-4 seconds or more before he starts running around - having less than 3 seconds to plant and throw could end up being complete futility to have him. dante culpepper and jamarcus russell are the only comperable quarterbacks as "defensive ends playing qb" that i can think of, and i for one think that'd be a disaster in houston.

our offense is so contingent on rushing well that it takes a good portion of the passing game away when we're being stuffed. we cant roll out, cant play fake, and an added safety is in coverage. this is where i dont like shanahan calling the plays. shanny obviously doesnt have near the experience of kubiak, and he looks like he's out there simply guessing at what to do next (our run game isnt working so we motion a tightend behind the guard and bring the WR's closer ... wtf all that does is allow the defense to stack the box further). there were several times over the last couple of years where kubiak went almost entirely 3 or 4 receivers (emptying the backfield with slaton motioning to outside receiver), especially later in games or to attempt to jump start the offense. if the rest of this season is anything like the jets game we're going to be in trouble if we're losing the line of scrimmage.