The All Encompassing FIRE KUBIAK thread

[GNTLEWOLF]

Originally Posted by Texecutioner

Well Wisenhunt was the Steelers OC and he just went to the SB and was a hair away form winning it. That's close enough for me, but you're right it hasn't been many in recent memory.

Holmgren was also an offensive coach that went to the SB and again lost to the Steelers though, but Holmgren's been a fantastic coach.

Don't forget, he went one time and won with the packers

[Goldensilence]

Originally Posted by GP

Even if Cowher could come here, who does he get for coordinators?

They're all with the Steelers. They're one big family there, enjoying the fruits of their labor.

I am afraid that grabbing Cowher/JJ/Marty would be a bad idea. They'd have to assemble a coaching staff around them. And how compatible would our current roster be with what the new coach desires to put on the field?

It would be exciting at first. Then it would wear off, and the "Fire" threads would pop up more quickly than ever.

When was the last time a Super Bowl team had a head coach who specializes in offense? It seems they all came from a background in defense.

Maybe I just have it in my head that either of those three would look around the league and see who is up and coming from winning teams or has some sort of background with. Hell even get the strange idea of putting coordinators on their team that have a track record of success.

I guess what I am dancing around to say is I don't think any of those listed would have a problem hiring someone out of their comfort zone, which is something Gary is (IMO) unable to do.

Last guy that has a offensive background to take a team to the SB are Ken Wisenhunt, Mike Holmgreen, Andy Reid, and in 2003 Bill Callahan and Jon Gruden.

[Texecutioner]

Originally Posted by GNTLEWOLF

[/b]

Don't forget, he went one time and won with the packers

Yeah, he went to 3 SB's all together. Going with two teams though is what impresses me with any coach. Plus, both of those teams he went with (The Packers and the Hawks) were built by Holmgren. He's the #1 guy that I would want to be the Texans next HC. Other than Cowher he's the most proven winner out there and that could also be argued that he's been even better than Cowher actually.

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by Lucky

It looked like he didn't even want the team. If Kubiak called a press conference tomorrow and resigned, I wouldn't be surprised. I wouldn't.

There is no leadership on this team. In this organization. Bob McNair should hire a real NFL man to run this ship from stem to stern. And that guy should fire everyone, from the 50 VPs to the ticket takers. Bring in an entirely new organization that builds a real tradition. Not one that celebrates 1st downs when you're down 17 in the 4th quarter of your season opener.

I'm not inclined to disagree with you. Either the stadium and Astrodome is built on ancient Indian burial grounds (explaining decades of futility by 3 teams, 2 of which found some success after leaving the area), or, this is the growing pains of a newbie head owner and it could take awhile for him to be NFL savvy.

And that first down chant can get downright embarrassing at times. I remember them doing it during 2-14, and it was like the place was on autopilot with the ReliantWorld presentation of the gameday experience. The celebration creation and good time machine continues no matter what is going on with the game. Like Vinny has said: a marketing company with a football division.

It's depressing to see them start off a season with a game like this.

[Maddict5]

Originally Posted by GP

I watched the Jets players giggling and giving Rex Ryan a Gatorade bath. Rex was laughing about it, and seemed to genuinely enjoy it.

You don't see any of that sort of basic fellowship rituals between Kubiak and his team.

Of course, it's all "good" when you're winning. If the Jets get their rears kicked the next four weeks...there will be less celebrating I would suppose.

But still, there seems to be be a bit of a contrast between these two teams.

One cares, and the other doesn't.

we were doing the same thing against the jags, GB, titans, bears etc last yr but its ok- selective memory isnt half as bad as alot of the stuff spewing around here at the moment. re-starting the franchise, firing kubiak, schaub, mcnair, everybody & other kinds of ridiculous stuff. do people realise how stupid it sounds to suggest preposterous moves like this?

im also pissed that we took a beatdown at home yesterday. however the fact remains that we caught a team thats going to be very good on a day when they were in top form. not to mention they had a nice amount of luck with the near int's & recovering their own fumbles (aswell as brice nodding off for a play). it happens every week all over the nfl.

i also know we're going to react & come back from this like we always have done since kubiak arrived. i urge some of the other fans who want to blow the whole thing up to calm down. there were positives in that ****storm yesterday, namely the defensive performance on 1st & 2nd down- i cant remember having so many TFL's or no/short gains & pretty consistent pressure. once the offence gets itself together (which it will) & the defence continues like that & improves on 3rd down, we're going to be there or thereabouts in the playoff race come the end of the season. color me the koolaid/sunshine fan if you want but i know im right. i understand the frustration though but come on its 1 game out of 16 & we have a good team. it was a bad day thats all. we'll have a couple more before the end of the season too. nobody goes 16-0

[TEXANRED]

Originally Posted by Lucky

When fans ask for Cowher, they're asking for intensity. For presence. For toughness. For leadership. It doesn't matter if it's Cowher, or someone who has never been an NFL head coach. What they want is a change in attitude.

Well, that and some wins.

One would say Dennis Green is an intense guy.....just sayin.

[GP]

Originally Posted by Maddict5

we were doing the same thing against the jags, GB, titans, bears etc last yr but its ok- selective memory isnt half as bad as alot of the stuff spewing around here at the moment. re-starting the franchise, firing kubiak, schaub, mcnair, everybody & other kinds of ridiculous stuff. do people realise how stupid it sounds to suggest preposterous moves like this?

im also pissed that we took a beatdown at home yesterday. however the fact remains that we caught a team thats going to be very good on a day when they were in top form. not to mention they had a nice amount of luck with the near int's & recovering their own fumbles (aswell as brice nodding off for a play). it happens every week all over the nfl.

i also know we're going to react & come back from this like we always have done since kubiak arrived. i urge some of the other fans who want to blow the whole thing up to calm down. there were positives in that ****storm yesterday, namely the defensive performance on 1st & 2nd down- i cant remember having so many TFL's or no/short gains & pretty consistent pressure. once the offence gets itself together (which it will) & the defence continues like that & improves on 3rd down, we're going to be there or thereabouts in the playoff race come the end of the season. color me the koolaid/sunshine fan if you want but i know im right. i understand the frustration though but come on its 1 game out of 16 & we have a good team. it was a bad day thats all. we'll have a couple more before the end of the season too. nobody goes 16-0

I normally would say that you're right: No need to knee-jerk.

And I have been verrry reserved in my posts on here today and yesterday.

Having said that, I will still say that you don't come out like this in year 4 of your coaching regime. You just don't. That was Pee Wee League out there yesterday, no matter who the opponent would have been. Had we played like that against a weak team, I think we still lose the game.

The hot seat, for Kubiak, just got plugged into the wall outlet as far as I am concerned. You don't start year 4 like that. A loss, when having played a competitive game, is understandable. What I saw, is not excusable.

I'm not in the "Fire him now" gang, but I am definitely not going to spin this like it's no big deal. Year 4. Big deal.

[Maddict5]

Originally Posted by GP

I normally would say that you're right: No need to knee-jerk.

And I have been verrry reserved in my posts on here today and yesterday.

Having said that, I will still say that you don't come out like this in year 4 of your coaching regime. You just don't. That was Pee Wee League out there yesterday, no matter who the opponent would have been. Had we played like that against a weak team, I think we still lose the game.

The hot seat, for Kubiak, just got plugged into the wall outlet as far as I am concerned. You don't start year 4 like that. A loss, when having played a competitive game, is understandable. What I saw, is not excusable.

I'm not in the "Fire him now" gang, but I am definitely not going to spin this like it's no big deal. Year 4. Big deal.

but it does happen... all the time. today its gary kubiak & john fox. just to illustrate my point- last year, the steelers got crushed in a couple games (the titans & eagles games come to mind), same goes for the cards. the titans got absolutely blown out by the jets at home last year. its happened the SB champs, SB runners up & the team with the #1 seed and best record. it happens EVERYBODY.

wait for the reaction- if that doesnt come & the losses pile up, THEN you start calling for heads but i think the reaction so far by Texans fans has been completely OTT. if yesterdays result occurs regularly over the next few weeks, il be in line for kubiak getting the chop, despite me being a big fan of his. have a litlle faith & support the team. i dont think its as impossible as everybody is making out for us to beat the titans next week given how we stopped the run yesterday for most of the game & the fact that collins is a statue compared to sanchez so hopefully he shouldnt be able to make as many 3rd down plays by escaping the rush. and if that happens, everything will be great again. just shows the fickleness that exists among fanbases

[GP]

Originally Posted by Maddict5

but it does happen... all the time. today its gary kubiak & john fox. just to illustrate my point- last year, the steelers got crushed in a couple games (the titans & eagles games come to mind), same goes for the cards. the titans got absolutely blown out by the jets at home last year. its happened the SB champs, SB runners up & the team with the #1 seed and best record. it happens EVERYBODY.

wait for the reaction- if that doesnt come & the losses pile up, THEN you start calling for heads but i think the reaction so far by Texans fans has been completely OTT. if yesterdays result occurs regularly over the next few weeks, il be in line for kubiak getting the chop, despite me being a big fan of his. have a litlle faith & support the team. i dont think its as impossible as everybody is making out for us to beat the titans next week given how we stopped the run yesterday for most of the game & the fact that collins is a statue compared to sanchez so hopefully he shouldnt be able to make as many 3rd down plays by escaping the rush. and if that happens, everything will be great again. just shows the fickleness that exists among fanbases

It doesn't happen year after year, though.

What's our record over the past four years (the first four games of each year)? That's not a good pattern.

Patterns are important. They reveal persistent successes or weaknesses.

If we're going to challenge Indy and Tenn for the AFC South, or even a wild card spot, we can't open up the season in a 1-3 or 0-4 hole. Even going 2-2 is questionable with how the remaining 12 games will go this year.

I'm not throwing the guy out right now. But I am saying that the rain cloud club has been largely validated as of today. Kubiak could win the next 4-in-a-row and wow all of us. It could happen. But the pattern suggests it won't.

The pattern says we start playing football right around week 5, which is way too late in our division and in the AFC in general.

[Maddict5]

Originally Posted by TEXANRED

One would say Dennis Green is an intense guy.....just sayin.

ps tom landry wasnt very intense was he?

[Kaiser Toro]

Originally Posted by Maddict5

ps tom landry wasnt very intense was he?

No, he was calm. His team matched his persona. Our team looks like Kubiak on the sideline - dazed and confused. It would be a lot cooler if he was like Landry.

[TheRealJoker]

I'm tired of seeing our Denver prodigy get out coached by any solid defensive guru and watch him not be able to get his team ready to play consistently.

[Runner]

Originally Posted by Maddict5

im also pissed that we took a beatdown at home yesterday. however the fact remains that we caught a team thats going to be very good on a day when they were in top form. not to mention they had a nice amount of luck with the near int's & recovering their own fumbles (aswell as brice nodding off for a play). it happens every week all over the nfl.

i also know we're going to react & come back from this like we always have done since kubiak arrived.

As far as the first point, yes we played a tough team, regardless of the posts last week stating the Jets would be easy. However, the Texans need to start regularly bearing good teams if they want to be playoff contenders. I don't like the "it was too hard" reasoning.

The second point is that the Texans will show up next week and show who they really are. If they beat the Titans they will be "great" again. The Texans have 3-4 of these games every year. The problem is, the Texans aren't just who they are in the second win. They are also the team that blew chunks the first game. That equates to "Texans Great" i.e. .500. In this case, the theoretical .500 record is making the huge, and rather unfounded, assumption the Texans beat the Titans next week.

[JDizzle]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

It's depressing to see them start off a season with a game like this.

For me it's just inexcusable. We may end up going 9-7 and miss the playoffs by a hair but we'll have a couple of losses like this to look back on and think, man if we would have showed up for that game we may have had a shot.

I wouldn't even be surprised if we take one in Tennessee next week. I'm not expecting it but it wouldn't surprise me. I know the team can play good enough to do it and that's what is so frustrating about losing like this. You've got the talent so what gives? Yup, you guessed it.

[michaelm]

Originally Posted by Goldensilence

I hear a lot of calls for Cowher, just not sure this would be his ideal destination. With his family in N.C. he really might just want to wait it out until John Fox's tenure is gone. Still a remote possibility I guess.

No way JJ comes out of retirement.

I name I haven't heard but I think should be on any possible list of replacements: Marty Schottenheimer.

Marty Ball isn't exciting but he wins and he knows how to build a team. Just putting it out there.

You beat me to this.
Marty Schottenheimer SHOULD be the next coach of this team. True, he can't seem to find a way to get a team over the hump to win a championship, but he knows the NFL. He knows how to build a team, perhaps as good as anyone in the league.
Marty would, at the very least, put a respectable team on the field within a short period of time.
His style might be boring, but there's no doubt that he could build a very good team in this town.

IMO, don't even think about Cower. He'll want to install a 3-4 defense, which would take a long time, and doesn't suit the skillset of Mario at all.
I just don't think you can bring in a coach that would basically scrap everything you have on D, including the best player. It would take several seasons to transition this team to a decent 3-4.

[Second Honeymoon]

Originally Posted by michaelm

You beat me to this.
Marty Schottenheimer SHOULD be the next coach of this team. True, he can't seem to find a way to get a team over the hump to win a championship, but he knows the NFL. He knows how to build a team, perhaps as good as anyone in the league.
Marty would, at the very least, put a respectable team on the field within a short period of time.
His style might be boring, but there's no doubt that he could build a very good team in this town.

IMO, don't even think about Cower. He'll want to install a 3-4 defense, which would take a long time, and doesn't suit the skillset of Mario at all.
I just don't think you can bring in a coach that would basically scrap everything you have on D, including the best player. It would take several seasons to transition this team to a decent 3-4.

I like Marty but he may be a little long in the tooth. He would be an improvement and he almost assuredly has a better network of coaches to pull from than Kubiak has proven to have. Marty would be fine with me in the end though.

Why not think about Cowher? is it because of his Carolina connection? i understand that and I would have Carolina as a favorite over Houston to secure his services, but the whole 4-3 v 3-4 question, just doesn't hold water.

Other teams have changed schemes and its not some huge evolution. Look at Green Bay last night. They ran a 4-3 last year and they brought in a proven commodity with proven track record of DC success (Capers) and they switched to 3-4. They didn't look too bad last night. Multiple sacks, big interception returns, and put pressure on Capers all last night. If a team like the Packers can do it, why not the Texans? It isn't that big of a change.

Lord knows our current scheme and talent aren't getting the job done.

I am not saying Cowher is coming to Houston, but to exclude ourselves from consideration because of a bunch of assumptions is a disservice to our team imho.

[BattleRedRaider]

Maybe we can hire Jeff Fisher since the Titans messageboard has a thread about firing him.

http://www.gotitans.com/goForum/showthread.php?t=51405

[BigBull17]

Originally Posted by swtbound07

Seriously, how bout you treat other peoples opinions with respect. We are all watching the same team here. You appear to be in denial to me.

I'm normally very optimistic, but it's the same thing every year. Feels great tosee Chris Brown have 3 carries for 15 yards, but never touch the field again. Slatton needed a road map to to the hole, but don't try anything else. WR not making plays, don't try another guy. Instead of interviewing serious canidates for DC, you hire your buddy and he gives up 500 yards in his 1st game. Same ****, different year. Doing one thing over and over and expecting different results is called insanity.

[Fox]

The most damning snippet about the whole game was this line from Solomon's blog, if true...

"I asked Andre Johnson if he could see it coming, and he said he didn't want to answer that question."

If our best, franchise player thinks this staff is doing a poor job of preparing us to win then Kubiak is losing this team. Reminiscent of Capers' last year. :sigh:

[GP]

Originally Posted by Fox

The most damning snippet about the whole game was this line from Solomon's blog, if true...

"I asked Andre Johnson if he could see it coming, and he said he didn't want to answer that question."

If our best, franchise player thinks this staff is doing a poor job of preparing us to win then Kubiak is losing this team. Reminiscent of Capers' last year. :sigh:

AJ is probably the most cerebral guy on the whole team.

He does a good job of staying off the radar in terms of badmouthing the team to the media.

His on-field body language tells the whole story. And he speaks with subtle actions that are there if a person looks closely enough.

At this point, I really am sincere when I say that the guy's career is wasted here. A guy like THAT deserves better. And I will probably have to say the same thing about Mario in about 3 more years from now.