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Blazing Arrow's "Rivalry Talk" Rival fans & lighthearted smack talk. Keep it light and leave the mean spirited stuff at home please.

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Old 08-18-2009   #41
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Default Re: Bud looking pretty bad

Gotta spread rep DB! Great post!!

I don't care if he lives to be 110, or dies tomorrow, my feelings toward the man will not change! Life goes on, as it did when he vacated the dome and took our team to the hills of Tenn! Great big circle of life!!! Tenn now has my old team, BUT, I was blessed with a brand spankin NEW team with an owner I can respect! I waited 36 yrs for a SB and never got one, SOOOO, I can wait a while longer while my NEW team puts all the pieces together, something Bud was never able to do. I'm a TEXAN now, and very proud of that!!!
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Old 08-18-2009   #42
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Default Re: Bud looking pretty bad

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80's? 90's? I was there - every game (the exceptions being 86 & 87 - I was overseas). As far as passionate Oiler fans, I can remember a couple of raucous crowds in the Oilers final year here. Not every game that season, but a couple still drew 45 to 50k. I remember corps having to step in to avoid blackouts too, but I attribute that to something someone mentioned earlier in the thread - This is a transplant city. Ya know what though? it didn't phase me a bit, because instead of worrying about whether the game was going to be televised, I was wondering why the chicken necked, POS wouldn't let us tailgate (we even got busted for throwing a football - but that's for another thread).

Very few people like Yankee and his "The Mrs" join in the passion for a team of their adopted city. I wish more were like Lindsay and Ryan.

Going back to my original point, Bud Adams is the epitomy of corporate welfare. This city, hell this county (the Astrodome is owned by Harris County) gave and gave and gave to that POS. What did he do in return, **** us! So **** him!! Oklahoman POS!!!
Don't get mad at me now. I didn't say if only Texan_Bill had attended more games Bud would never of moved the team. I was a die hard fan as well, just couldn't afford to go to games. I even wrote my high school English papers on what the Oilers needed to improve the team and go to the Super Bowl.

I am just saying that Houston as a whole played a part in the Oilers leaving.

I still find it funny that Drayton told the city what a fine facility the Dome was only to watch Bud leave and then tell us if the Astros did not draw a million in attendance and build him a new stadium he was going to move them to Washington. And we complied. For a baseball team. Nobody cares about baseball.

Bud Adams was and forever will be a lightning rod for bad press He is like the TO of owners. No matter what he does its wrong.

And don't get me wrong. I am not saying I want to give the man a hug. At the end of the day he still took my team away. I am just saying as a city we all could of handled things a bit differently.

But on the bright side at least its not an Oiler stretching out but falling one yard short in the Super Bowl.
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Old 08-19-2009   #43
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Default Re: Bud looking pretty bad

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Don't get mad at me now. I didn't say if only Texan_Bill had attended more games Bud would never of moved the team. I was a die hard fan as well, just couldn't afford to go to games. I even wrote my high school English papers on what the Oilers needed to improve the team and go to the Super Bowl.

I am just saying that Houston as a whole played a part in the Oilers leaving.

I still find it funny that Drayton told the city what a fine facility the Dome was only to watch Bud leave and then tell us if the Astros did not draw a million in attendance and build him a new stadium he was going to move them to Washington. And we complied. For a baseball team. Nobody cares about baseball.

Bud Adams was and forever will be a lightning rod for bad press He is like the TO of owners. No matter what he does its wrong.

And don't get me wrong. I am not saying I want to give the man a hug. At the end of the day he still took my team away. I am just saying as a city we all could of handled things a bit differently.

But on the bright side at least its not an Oiler stretching out but falling one yard short in the Super Bowl.
Drayton was an opportunist and used the Oilers leaving as leverage. Mayor Lanier was the ***** that drove the team out moreso than the fans. We filled that stadium year after year till Bud started telling us he was out of here.
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Old 08-19-2009   #44
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Default Re: Bud looking pretty bad

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Drayton was an opportunist and used the Oilers leaving as leverage. Mayor Lanier was the ***** that drove the team out moreso than the fans. We filled that stadium year after year till Bud started telling us he was out of here.
Without being able to accurately quote the details (and being unable to find anything useful after a quick google search), there was a study that came out around the time of the proposed Bud Dome that indicated the attendance in the Dome for some number of previous seasons (maybe 5, although again I'm not sure) was in the 98% of capacity area. One of the reasons for the perceived lack of fan support was that while the games sold out frequently, it was sometimes after the NFL's 48-hour deadline, and thus the television broadcasts were blacked-out in the Houston viewing area.
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Old 08-19-2009   #45
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Default Re: Bud looking pretty bad

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Nobody cares about baseball.
The Astros have between 2.5 - 3 million+ attendance every year since the baseball stadium was opened in 1999. Houston ranks in the top 10-15 of attendance in the past 10 years according to MLB/ESPN.

Stop blaming fans. Bud's greed is the ONLY reason he left. The conditions were not right at the time he demanded a new stadium, but with a little patience and willingness to work with the Houston Rodeo and civic leaders, he would have eventually gotten a new stadium.
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Old 08-19-2009   #46
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Default Re: Bud looking pretty bad

Bitter party your table is ready ...
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Old 08-19-2009   #47
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Default Re: Bud looking pretty bad

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Bitter party your table is ready ...
nah, not bitter. I just don't like the man and I'm not into historical revisionism. I'd ask you to understand, but I get that rooting for the hometown team is something that you cannot comprehend, Mr. Bandwagonboy.
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Old 08-19-2009   #48
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Default Re: Bud looking pretty bad

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Bitter party your table is ready ...

Easy for you to say since you lived in LA the whole time Bud screwed Houston. BTW we're not bitter, we have a better owner and organization.
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Old 08-19-2009   #49
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Default Re: Bud looking pretty bad

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Easy for you to say since you lived in LA the whole time Bud screwed Houston. BTW we're not bitter, we have a better owner and organization.
LA? I live no where near LA. Never had never will.
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Old 08-19-2009   #50
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Default Re: Bud looking pretty bad

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The Astros have between 2.5 - 3 million+ attendance every year since the baseball stadium was opened in 1999. Houston ranks in the top 10-15 of attendance in the past 10 years according to MLB/ESPN.
Really? Thats 31250 to 37500 a game at 80 games. Thats about right. I would still say that the Astros rank third in this city.

Or maybe its just me. I do only watch baseball when I am having a hard time sleeping.

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Stop blaming fans. Bud's greed is the ONLY reason he left. The conditions were not right at the time he demanded a new stadium, but with a little patience and willingness to work with the Houston Rodeo and civic leaders, he would have eventually gotten a new stadium.
I am not blaming the fans solely. I am just saying we had a part in it. If 100k people would of stormed the city, crowding the streets and pretty much shutting down the city, then we would have the Houston Oilers in some capacity and we would be having Blazing Arrow over for dinner and meeting the family.

Instead, Bud left, we cheered, and then got pist when the NFL said they would not come back to Houston.

And what reason would Bud of had to think that the opinion of the public was going to change and build a new stadium? The Mayor said no, Eckles said no, the Rodeo said no, the sports writers sold us on the fact that we didnt need one, and we the people said no. How many no's does one person need to get?
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Old 08-19-2009   #51
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Default Re: Bud looking pretty bad

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Easy for you to say since you lived in LA the whole time Bud screwed Houston. BTW we're not bitter, we have a better owner and organization.
He lives in the near the errrrrrrrrr, ummmmm "flaming" area of Cali.
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Old 08-19-2009   #52
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Default Re: Bud looking pretty bad

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And what reason would Bud of had to think that the opinion of the public was going to change and build a new stadium? The Mayor said no, Eckles said no, the Rodeo said no, the sports writers sold us on the fact that we didnt need one, and we the people said no. How many no's does one person need to get?
[not being a smartass] It's called negotiating. It works much better than picking up your ball and going home. One thing revisionists seem to keep forgetting is that the Mayor eventually offered a proposal for a stadium. Adams rejected it.

Even before that fray, rumors of a new stadium started in the very late '80' to early '90's. Finally in '92 or '93 it was the Mayor who threw out the idea that a radical stadium proposal was on the table. It was an attempt to see who would be interested and supportive. As Herv mentioned yesterday, Adams and Alexander were both interested, but Adams insisted on being the main lease holder, essentially making Alexander his *****. Finally McLane offered a proposal for a $ 95,000,000.00 renovation to the Astrodome. $95,000,000 is a lot for a renovation especially back in '94, but that would have given Bud the luxury boxes that he argued was what he needed.

So in the end, if that's pushing Bud to possum holler - so be it.
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Old 08-19-2009   #53
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Default Re: Bud looking pretty bad

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Really? Thats 31250 to 37500 a game at 80 games. Thats about right. I would still say that the Astros rank third in this city.

Or maybe its just me. I do only watch baseball when I am having a hard time sleeping.
yeah, I'm a football fan, and a casual baseball fan and not much of a basketball fan.

But this is a football town, without a doubt. So should there be any doubt that we would have eventually built the Oilers a new crib? Obviously, if this city was willing to pony up for the two lesser sports (in addition to Reliant Stadium), you have to admit that it was just a matter of time.

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I am not blaming the fans solely. I am just saying we had a part in it. If 100k people would of stormed the city, crowding the streets and pretty much shutting down the city, then we would have the Houston Oilers in some capacity and we would be having Blazing Arrow over for dinner and meeting the family.

Instead, Bud left, we cheered, and then got pist when the NFL said they would not come back to Houston.

And what reason would Bud of had to think that the opinion of the public was going to change and build a new stadium? The Mayor said no, Eckles said no, the Rodeo said no, the sports writers sold us on the fact that we didnt need one, and we the people said no. How many no's does one person need to get?
TB did a great reply, so I won't repeat.

But, the key to all those "no votes" was that Bud wanted it his way and his way only. He was not willing to compromise or work with the powers that be in this town. I guess you can justify a divorce because your new girlfriend puts out more than your wife does? (this is a joke, man, but you get the point )

As far as fans sharing the blame, remember this was before the internet was everywhere and by the time that fans could even organize, Bud was gone. We did not have the luxury of an NFL team with a history going back to 1946 and multiple owners. This was an old AFL team with one owner, so the comparison to Cleveland just doesn't hold water. Cleveland fans were lobbying TO KEEP THE RECORDS, and Bud had stated point blank that this was his company and he would never give us those records. Do ya' see how this is an apples and oranges comparision?

And to be honest, I do not remember any "cheering" that we lost the Houston Oilers. I remember a whole lot of depressed football fans that lost a passion that ended up bringing the Houston Texans into existence. You know history does not happen in a vacuum, so if this city didn't care about the NFL (i.e. Los Angeles), we wouldn't have a team today. It was only a matter of a few years between losing a team and getting a new one.

I do not recall the fans ever having a voice in the matter or ever getting a chance to vote before Bud had already signed on the dotted line with Nashville. How fans or anyone else can be blamed (or even share the blame) with Bud Adams' epic greed is something that I honestly will never understand.

p.s. It's fun chattin' with ya', TR! Absolutely no hard feelings involved, just so you know.

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[not being a smartass] It's called negotiating. It works much better than picking up your ball and going home. One thing revisionists seem to keep forgetting is that the Mayor eventually offered a proposal for a stadium. Adams rejected it.
Thank you. A lot of folks forget that Bud was offered a deal and turned it down. The dude's greed and massive ego seemed to prevent any willingness to work with those in charge, and honestly, I have often wondered if there wasn't just a little bit of spite involved with that jerk's decision to leave.

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Even before that fray, rumors of a new stadium started in the very late '80' to early '90's. Finally in '92 or '93 it was the Mayor who threw out the idea that a radical stadium proposal was on the table. It was an attempt to see who would be interested and supportive. As Herv mentioned yesterday, Adams and Alexander were both interested, but Adams insisted on being the main lease holder, essentially making Alexander his *****. Finally McLane offered a proposal for a $ 95,000,000.00 renovation to the Astrodome. $95,000,000 is a lot for a renovation especially back in '94, but that would have given Bud the luxury boxes that he argued was what he needed.

So in the end, if that's pushing Bud to possum holler - so be it.
I honestly think that Bud would have had a stadium deal in place by 2000, especially with the team that Fisher was building at that time. Bud's timing was way off and greed was clouding that tiny little voice inside of him that may or may not have existed to urge him be a good person. (his inner devil probably killed that conscience a long time ago!)
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Old 08-19-2009   #54
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Default Re: Bud looking pretty bad

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As far as fans sharing the blame, remember this was before the internet was everywhere and by the time that fans could even organize, Bud was gone.
I sincerely don't believe that would've mattered. Adams was going to get what he wanted one way or the other.... Fans be damned.
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Old 08-19-2009   #55
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Default Re: Bud looking pretty bad

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LA? I live no where near LA. Never had never will.
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He lives in the near the errrrrrrrrr, ummmmm "flaming" area of Cali.

Yep never in Texas or Tennessee. Always from the outside looking in.
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Old 08-19-2009   #56
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Default Re: Bud looking pretty bad

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Yep never in Texas or Tennessee. Always from the outside looking in.
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Old 08-19-2009   #57
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Default Re: Bud looking pretty bad

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The sad part, BA, is that in some weird parallel alternate reality universe Bud stayed in Houston and you are a well-respected and beloved member of the Houston Oilers message board.

With that said, could you please go ahead and go to that parallel universe and leave us the eff alone?!

j/k, man!
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Old 08-19-2009   #58
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Default Re: Bud looking pretty bad

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He lives in the near the errrrrrrrrr, ummmmm "flaming" area of Cali.
That whole damn state's on fire.
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Old 08-19-2009   #59
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Originally Posted by brakos82 View Post
That whole damn state's on fire.
Dumb arse pot growers in the Santa Barbara Mts. Probably killed themselves in the process.
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Old 08-19-2009   #60
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Default Re: Bud looking pretty bad

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Originally Posted by TEXANRED View Post
Really? Thats 31250 to 37500 a game at 80 games. Thats about right. I would still say that the Astros rank third in this city.

Or maybe its just me. I do only watch baseball when I am having a hard time sleeping.



I am not blaming the fans solely. I am just saying we had a part in it. If 100k people would of stormed the city, crowding the streets and pretty much shutting down the city, then we would have the Houston Oilers in some capacity and we would be having Blazing Arrow over for dinner and meeting the family.

Instead, Bud left, we cheered, and then got pist when the NFL said they would not come back to Houston.

And what reason would Bud of had to think that the opinion of the public was going to change and build a new stadium? The Mayor said no, Eckles said no, the Rodeo said no, the sports writers sold us on the fact that we didnt need one, and we the people said no. How many no's does one person need to get?
The Astros are number one in Houston/South Texas.

I personally like The Texans,Astros,Rockets in that order.
But until the Texans start winning this is a baseball town, for now.
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