Bud looking pretty bad

[Silver Oak]

Originally Posted by TEXANRED

I remember Tag saying if the Oilers left we would not get another team.

and he would have been right except LA showed complete apathy towards bringing a team back there.

[Texan_Bill]

Originally Posted by TEXANRED

Now I never said victim. Adams is as much to blame as everyone else. He is hot headed and temperamental. I am just saying that during that time there was no rational voice and things got out of hand and that is how we ended up where we are now.

If this city showed half as much passion toward the Oilers as they do now we could of gotten a cleveland Brown type deal. But again, 70 people out of 4 million showed up for the rally at city hall. Why would the NFL let us keep the history. I remember Tag saying if the Oilers left we would not get another team.

The first paragraph I agree with. It boiled down to a pissing match between Dud and Bob. We lost. But then again, we gained after a few years of sacrifice.

The second paragraph, I disagree with. That rally was held after Dud had an agreement in place with the Mayor of Nashville (Bredesen). He had no intention of leaving the Oilers records and past with the city of Houston (ie Cleveland). So, what's the point?

BTW, Don't ever say Oilers fans weren't passionate:






As a side note; Not mentioned is that fact that Lanier did cave in at one point saying he would build the Oilers an open air stadium and it wasn't good enough for that fat drunken oaf from Bartlesville Oklahoma.

[TEXANRED]

Originally Posted by Texan_Bill

BTW, Don't ever say Oilers fans weren't passionate:

I am by far not trying to argue with you regarding the passion of Oiler fans.....But that photo was from the 70's. What about the early 80's? Mid 80's? Sure the late 80's to early 90's they started to draw, but even then there were still blackouts. I remember a Sunday night game during all of our playoff runs a corporate sponcer had to buy out the seats. How many times did we sit on pins and needles and hope we made our Friday deadline to sell out the dome? I practicaly grew up having to listen to them on the radio. You could hear a Pin drop in the dome in 94.

Even after he made his deal with Nashville it still was not finalized cus it had to pass a vote. There was still plenty of time to save our Oilers or at least show the NFL we cared. But we didnt. In fact the mood was "Well Bud don't let the door knob hit ya on the way out."

Its easy to be passionate when your team is winning. But how about the losing? Texan fans are head and shoulders more passionate than Oiler fans. I don't know if its due to the computer age where we get to sit and talk to hundreds or thousands of different fans, the increase in information on each individual player, the tailgating, or the fact that we lost a team and now are more greatfull to the team that we have now.

Despite 4-12, 5-11, 7-8, 2-14, 6-10, 8-8, and 8-8, we still challenge anyone who says our team sucks. You put that same record witht he Oilers and you get the early 80's edition and no one went to those games.

We may not be in our seats by kickoff but at least we show up.

But that is my perception or perspecitve of the matter.

[gwallaia]

Bud is old and ugly and his mother smells of elderberry.

[spurstexanstros]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

Was this video shot before or after Darth Vader threw him over the ledge? It's always hard to tell with the walking dead.

must repp the Star wars reference......
Bud is eeeeeeeeeeeeeeevillllllllllllll

Evil Never dies....it moves to Tennesee.

[Texan_Bill]

Originally Posted by TEXANRED

I am by far not trying to argue with you regarding the passion of Oiler fans.....But that photo was from the 70's. What about the early 80's? Mid 80's? Sure the late 80's to early 90's they started to draw, but even then there were still blackouts. I remember a Sunday night game during all of our playoff runs a corporate sponcer had to buy out the seats. How many times did we sit on pins and needles and hope we made our Friday deadline to sell out the dome? I practicaly grew up having to listen to them on the radio. You could hear a Pin drop in the dome in 94.

Even after he made his deal with Nashville it still was not finalized cus it had to pass a vote. There was still plenty of time to save our Oilers or at least show the NFL we cared. But we didnt. In fact the mood was "Well Bud don't let the door knob hit ya on the way out."

Its easy to be passionate when your team is winning. But how about the losing? Texan fans are head and shoulders more passionate than Oiler fans. I don't know if its due to the computer age where we get to sit and talk to hundreds or thousands of different fans, the increase in information on each individual player, the tailgating, or the fact that we lost a team and now are more greatfull to the team that we have now.

Despite 4-12, 5-11, 7-8, 2-14, 6-10, 8-8, and 8-8, we still challenge anyone who says our team sucks. You put that same record witht he Oilers and you get the early 80's edition and no one went to those games.

We may not be in our seats by kickoff but at least we show up.

But that is my perception or perspecitve of the matter.

80's? 90's? I was there - every game (the exceptions being 86 & 87 - I was overseas). As far as passionate Oiler fans, I can remember a couple of raucous crowds in the Oilers final year here. Not every game that season, but a couple still drew 45 to 50k. I remember corps having to step in to avoid blackouts too, but I attribute that to something someone mentioned earlier in the thread - This is a transplant city. Ya know what though? it didn't phase me a bit, because instead of worrying about whether the game was going to be televised, I was wondering why the chicken necked, POS wouldn't let us tailgate (we even got busted for throwing a football - but that's for another thread).

Very few people like Yankee and his "The Mrs" join in the passion for a team of their adopted city. I wish more were like Lindsay and Ryan.

Going back to my original point, Bud Adams is the epitomy of corporate welfare. This city, hell this county (the Astrodome is owned by Harris County) gave and gave and gave to that POS. What did he do in return, **** us! So **** him!! Oklahoman POS!!!

[Texan_Bill]

Originally Posted by gwallaia

Bud is old and ugly and his mother smells of elderberry.

Originally Posted by spurstexanstros

Evil Never dies....it moves to Tennesee.

Both!!!

[hobie]

Originally Posted by Texan_Bill

80's? 90's? I was there - every game (the exceptions being 86 & 87 - I was overseas). As far as passionate Oiler fans, I can remember a couple of raucous crowds in the Oilers final year here. Not every game that season, but a couple still drew 45 to 50k. I remember corps having to step in to avoid blackouts too, but I attribute that to something someone mentioned earlier in the thread - This is a transplant city. Ya know what though? it didn't phase me a bit, because instead of worrying about whether the game was going to be televised, I was wondering why the chicken necked, POS wouldn't let us tailgate (we even got busted for throwing a football - but that's for another thread).

Very few people like Yankee and his "The Mrs" join in the passion for a team of their adopted city. I wish more were like Lindsay and Ryan.

Going back to my original point, Bud Adams is the epitomy of corporate welfare. This city, hell this county (the Astrodome is owned by Harris County) gave and gave and gave to that POS. What did he do in return, **** us! So **** him!! Oklahoman POS!!!

TB, being an Oiler diehard as you were, I have a few questions for you.. Now I am a Yankee myself, so I didn't much know about the passion of the fans here, I was more so into the Giants. What year was it that after the playoff loss that the Dome was packed to welcome the team home? That picture you posted was something else.
What I did hear is that is wasn't BA who wouldn't allow tailgating, it was the HSA who wouldn't, as they wanted the revenue inside to be more, again, it is what I heard, so I am not sure who or what side to believe on that, but it was said that BA was not against it.
I do agree with the fact that even though 40 showed up at city hall, BA was already gone..I still remember the fact that they put all that money into the dome to make it better for BA, then before that one game, the field was all F'ked up, uneven, and they postponed it or whatever it was...
Man, I do feel for you old Oiler fans, BA was/is a lying bastard that even I know to be true..But being a transplant, the Texans are my #1A team and NY is my #1B team, good thing they are in different conferences !

[Hookem Horns]

Originally Posted by hobie

TB, being an Oiler diehard as you were, I have a few questions for you.. Now I am a Yankee myself, so I didn't much know about the passion of the fans here, I was more so into the Giants. What year was it that after the playoff loss that the Dome was packed to welcome the team home? That picture you posted was something else.

I am not TB however like many was a diehard. That was the 1979-80 season after the loss to the Steelers and the controversial Mike Renfro play. I will never forget someone hanging the ref doll from the rafters. I was around 10 years old and was there with my mom and friends. We got there early however I will never forget leaving the dome and seeing how many cars of people couldn't get in. The traffic jam was crazy.

What I did hear is that is wasn't BA who wouldn't allow tailgating, it was the HSA who wouldn't, as they wanted the revenue inside to be more, again, it is what I heard, so I am not sure who or what side to believe on that, but it was said that BA was not against it.

Regardless, the no tailgating deal played a big part in the demise of the Oilers IMO. Just look at the difference between the Texans and Oilers. I am convinced if Bud would have stuck it out and been the one getting Reliant (with allowed tailgating) the enthusiam would have been the same or even more so for the Oilers because of the long history with the city. Every NFL city I have lived in that has great tailgating has a passionate fanbase. It just goes a long way in forming a passionate fan culture IMO. Of course the booze has the most to do with that.

Man, I do feel for you old Oiler fans, BA was/is a lying bastard that even I know to be true..But being a transplant, the Texans are my #1A team and NY is my #1B team, good thing they are in different conferences !

Yeah, it really sucked losing your team like that as an Oilers fan. It also sucked having them choke in the postseason every year and finding every possible way to blow games. They haven't changed one bit so it must still suck to be an Oilers now Titans fan.

I did the opposite of you, I grew up in Houston and moved to New York when I was still in school. I became a Giants fan however the Oilers remained my #1 until they moved. The Giants are my "B" team also and I agree that is only possible because they are in different conferences. BTW, the Giants looked strong last night.

BTW, Friday will mark one of those few times where I actually root for the Cowboys.

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by TEXANRED

I am right there with you in terms of hurt feelings. I went to every home game that last year too.

But what I am saying is that we were (as fans) were sold on the fact that we did not need a new stadium. The sport writers had big write ups on how great the dome was, Drayton McClain JR. praised the dome and said we did not need another stadium in this town, Eckles didnt back it, and Turkey neck told us we were not going to consider it and in no way was Adams really going to move the team.

We had 70 people show up for the save the Oilers rally.

We were all to blame for that mess.

I'm past "hurt feelings". It's simple to me: I have absolutely NO RESPECT for a man like Bud Adams, who lacks integrity and honor. His primary driving force in life is GREED.

As far as new stadiums are concerned, imatexan hit the nail on the head. We got two brand new stadiums and a big new arena to prove that this city supports it's teams WHEN OWNERS ARE COMMITTED TO THE CITY. This is the big difference. Bud was never committed to this city and tried to leverage his greed by holding the team hostage whenever he could. He actually broke his lease to go play in a freakin' college stadium in order to capitalize on the $$$ to be made.

If the greedy bastard had any foresight and patience, he would be running Reliant Stadium and this entire city would be mourning Steve McNair while celebrating 50 years of Houston Oilers right now.

But we are not doing those things, and it is because of one man and his unbelievable greed. Nobody ran that fat turd out of town. That decision is his alone.

Originally Posted by Stemp

Bud Adams leaving Houston was the best thing that happened to Houston Football even though it sucked for all those years. If Adams hadn't moved, we'd still be going to games in the Astrodome and there would still be ZERO tailgating.

I agree in principle, but disagree that we would still be playing in the Astrodome. If Bud Adams had been willing to actually work with civic leaders (i.e. like Bob McNair did), he would have gotten a shiny new stadium like all the other sports team owners eventually did.

Tailgating...not sure. It's speculation, either way, but yeah, we could still be in the dark about that fantastic football pastime. So I can't argue with you there. That's a big plus and part of the overall great atmosphere of Texans games.

Originally Posted by Vinny

Mother Nature is undefeated, untied and unbeatable.

Yep. The Great Equalizer.

Originally Posted by TEXANRED

Its easy to be passionate when your team is winning. But how about the losing? Texan fans are head and shoulders more passionate than Oiler fans.

Sorry, man, but this is just wrong. 2-14 showed very clearly that Houston football fans are just like anywhere else. We might have had 5,000-10,000 at some of those games, and even less that stayed to 0:00 on the clock.

Remember, the "consecutive sellouts" that is being bragged about by the Texans FO is due to one thing: PSLs and the related requirement to renew season tickets to keep those PSLs. The Oilers most likely would not have experienced those blackouts under today's circumstances.

[Texan_Bill]

Originally Posted by hobie

TB, being an Oiler diehard as you were, I have a few questions for you.. Now I am a Yankee myself, so I didn't much know about the passion of the fans here, I was more so into the Giants. What year was it that after the playoff loss that the Dome was packed to welcome the team home? That picture you posted was something else.
What I did hear is that is wasn't BA who wouldn't allow tailgating, it was the HSA who wouldn't, as they wanted the revenue inside to be more, again, it is what I heard, so I am not sure who or what side to believe on that, but it was said that BA was not against it.
I do agree with the fact that even though 40 showed up at city hall, BA was already gone..I still remember the fact that they put all that money into the dome to make it better for BA, then before that one game, the field was all F'ked up, uneven, and they postponed it or whatever it was...
Man, I do feel for you old Oiler fans, BA was/is a lying bastard that even I know to be true..But being a transplant, the Texans are my #1A team and NY is my #1B team, good thing they are in different conferences !

To your first question:
The Dome filling up after a playoff loss happened twice. 1978 & 1979.

Second:
Even if it was HSA's call about tailgating, Dud should've fought for his customer's game day enjoyment. Wouldn't you??

A kick in the groin for the bolded part, although I do root for them two times a year...

[spurstexanstros]

I still cant believe Bud lives in Houston. I also still cant believe that his house doesnt have a perpetual TP crown on it. If someone tells me he has a parking space at reliant...well......

I know dude has to have personalized Titans plates....So why hasnt anyone shoe polished his car with Titans suck or at least showed him a day time moon on his way to the game.

[Texan_Bill]

Originally Posted by spurstexanstros

I still cant believe Bud lives in Houston. I also still cant believe that his house doesnt have a perpetual TP crown on it. If someone tells me he has a parking space at reliant...well......

I know dude has to have personalized Titans plates....So why hasnt anyone shoe polished his car with Titans suck or at least showed him a day time moon on his way to the game.

I tried, but River Oaks police don't care too much for pranksters

[eriadoc]

To be honest, I'm pretty well over the Oilers. I don't really care about them one way or another anymore. All they ever did was break our hearts and all Bud ever did was piss us off. As for the records and such, most relocated teams take it with them (Colts, Cards, Rams, Raiders to LA, Raiders back to Oakland, even the old AFL teams that moved). So I don't really care much about that, especially since most of the players that hold those records have professed their love and loyalty to Houston, even now. So Bud can have the team and the records .... the players are ours.

And the Texans have given me no worse times than the Oilers did, and at least I feel like they are trying to build a team the right way. And McNair doesn't meddle with the football ops to the point that he rambles on in some video about how the current backup is the future of the team.

[Hervoyel]

I believe that the single biggest factor in the Oilers leaving was 36 years of truly terrible public relations from the Houston Oilers and I do lay that at the feet of Bud Adams. I've never seen an organization make so many mistakes and stumble into so many public relations nightmares. The Houston Oilers of the 1960's were by and large a minor league team who won two titles that nobody cared about. They played in a high school stadium and had almost no stability. They won big for three seasons right out of the gate before anybody was paying attention and then posted one winning season in the next 12 years. Up until Earl Campbell arrived there was not one truly compelling reason to care about the Houston Oilers.

I've always said that the Luv Ya Blue Oilers were Houston's pro sports "first love" but they were around 18 years before we felt any real affection for them and when we did it was because of (pretty much) one player and one coach. If there's no Bum & Earl then the Oilers probably move to Jacksonville or some other town a lot sooner than they did. What does Bud Adams do though? He fires Bum Phillips and in so doing he heaps upon his own back an entire cities hatred. A few years later his GM trades Earl Campbell who is possibly the single most beloved athlete in the cities history. Again Bud gives us a reason to hate him.

He is notoriously cheap in paying players (this is widely known) and then when he finally overcomes this he remains notoriously cheap in paying coaches. His facilities reflect the miserly manner in which he conducts his business and again this is common knowledge. He hires people who embarrass the city of Houston. He hires coaches like Jerry Glanville whose bizarre ego needs feeding to the degree that he begins to actually make games harder for his team to win. We all remember the beat downs at the hands of the Bengals and the sight of Chuck Noll lecturing the midget in black at midfield. All of this we lay at the feet of Bud Adams.

He holds the city hostage in the early days of "franchise free agency" by threatening to move the team to Jacksonville and the eventual cost is the scoreboard in the Astrodome. It's something we love and we give it up to keep Bud's team here but we add this to the total we're keeping in our heads. The bill is a big one but we like football and the Oilers are getting better. When Glanville leaves Jack Pardee becomes the coach (a rare "good" PR move on Bud's part) and suddenly we're feeling like maybe there was a point to all of this.

It's about this time that I recall Bud Adams attempting to win a chance to host the Super Bowl for Houston. I remember this event clearly and I recall how suddenly people all around me seemed ready to bury the hatchet with Bud. I really think that we all saw him briefly in a new light as we heard of the proposal and as Bud talked to reporters and did interviews. Suddenly Bud was going to go to bat for the entire city and try and bring the big game back to town. I remember feeling badly not just for Houston but for Adams when this didn't get the owners approval. I though the man looked so let down over this failure and I know I wasn't alone there.

Then came Buffalo and all the ill-feeling that game generated. Then came Kansas City followed by 2-14. We all knew the run was over but that's the moment Bud chose to bring us a crackpot scheme for a new stadium that would not only have made him ridiculously wealthy but also (and more importantly) made him Les Alexander's "daddy". Bud wanted the "Bud Dome" to be his own version of Drayton McClane's money machine. It wasn't just about the seating or the facilities. Yes they were aging but more important than all of that it was about the lease and the concessions money and the parking. It was about all the things that went to Drayton when Bud's team played. It wasn't enough for Bud to merely get out of that situation. I think most people could understand where he was coming from there. It was that he also wanted to do the exact same thing to somebody else. He wanted to be on top and screwing Les Alexander out of his parking and his concessions as well. Les isn't that stupid though and would never have agreed to that deal even if we had been suckered into it.

When he finally began the discussions with Nashville I know that I was made aware of it at about the same time I found out that an exclusive negotiating agreement existed between Nashville and the Oilers. I wanted the city to get involved but it was over before I knew what happened. I learned all of the details about it sort of after the fact and looking back I don't think I would change anything now.

The firings, the timing of his demands, the way he tried to blackmail the city and the cost of keeping him happy. The kind of people he hired and the way they brought ridicule and shame to this city. All of these things combined added to that one terrible day in Buffalo made Bud Adams the most loathed owner in all of professional football. Some people say that Art Modell is the most hated owner (in Cleveland of course, not in Baltimore) and I can see where a case can easily be made for that but most of the country overlooks or is unaware of the confusing and painful relationship that we here in Houston have with Bud Adams. It wasn't a case of wanting to avenge ourselves on him. We just wanted to be rid of him and if it cost us the team to do it then so be it.

It's not like 36 years of living with Bud hadn't already conditioned us to accept the loss of people and things we cared about. The Oilers time here was one long painful stretch of Lucy holding that football up and inviting you to kick it. It was good times always followed by bad times and when you were trying to deal with the bad times you could be sure that Bud was waiting around the corner to make them just a little bit worse in some way. Was it intentional or out of malice? I don't think so. I think Bud never had clue one about how to cultivate goodwill among the public, his customers. I don't think he had any idea how to run a business that must coax the public to embrace it. He just didn't care about that. The name "Bottom-Line Bud" was given to him for a reason. He's more comfortable dealing with a customer in the form of another company buying his oil or services. John Q. Public is a mystery to him and always will be.

He doesn't see them at all. At least he didn't for all those years he was here plowing through chances to be the patriarch of Houston sports owners like a bull in a china shop. The reason he doesn't see them is exactly as Double Barrell stated. He was always such a greedy son of a *****.

Today he's not greedy and he's not all that much of a liability. He's still where the buck stops but he's old and other people insulate the public from Bud and vice-versa. He'll be dead soon and it won't matter anymore but for at least a few more years he'll be around to play the part of pretend elder statesman. There is something that I wonder about Bud though. A nagging thought I have where he's concerned. He's not in the HOF is he? I know Lamar Hunt is and I saw that Ralph Wilson was inducted this year. Al Davis is too. I remember on the HOF game hearing that Ralph and Bud were the last two surviving members of "The Foolish Club". I wonder how many others in that group are in the hall?

How could he be "co-founder of the AFL" and not be in the HOF? Bud isn't there though and here is the reason why. It's the same reason his fellow owners didn't give him the time of day when he went to them to plead his case for a Super Bowl. Bud doesn't inspire anyone. He just collects the money.

[Double Barrel]

Awesome post, Herv, and sums up the history of Bud Adams in Houston very well. I can't really add anything to it after reading it twice. Rep!

Originally Posted by eriadoc

To be honest, I'm pretty well over the Oilers. I don't really care about them one way or another anymore. All they ever did was break our hearts and all Bud ever did was piss us off. As for the records and such, most relocated teams take it with them (Colts, Cards, Rams, Raiders to LA, Raiders back to Oakland, even the old AFL teams that moved). So I don't really care much about that, especially since most of the players that hold those records have professed their love and loyalty to Houston, even now. So Bud can have the team and the records .... the players are ours.

I hear ya', and I'm mostly the same way. Herv and I attended an Earl Campbell autograph event recently, and I think seeing #34 in his wheelchair brought back a lot of those fond memories. I ended up buying a couple of Earl figurines for my boys, and I cannot deny that there is a small sense of nostalgia when looking at the old Oilers unis as they are represented on the Tyler Rose.

I understand about the records and franchise ownership, and don't really care that they are not in Houston. But, I think they should have been retired with the Oilers logo and the Titans start fresh with new records. It is disingenuous to fans of both cities to drag "franchise records" from one place to another, IMO. But that's just my take.

Originally Posted by eriadoc

And McNair doesn't meddle with the football ops to the point that he rambles on in some video about how the current backup is the future of the team.

This is true, but he is willing to force a new head coach to deal with wasting a year trying to improve a busted QB.

[Hervoyel]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

Awesome post, Herv, and sums up the history of Bud Adams in Houston very well. I can't really add anything to it after reading it twice. Rep!



I hear ya', and I'm mostly the same way. Herv and I attended an Earl Campbell autograph event recently, and I think seeing #34 in his wheelchair brought back a lot of those fond memories. I ended up buying a couple of Earl figurines for my boys, and I cannot deny that there is a small sense of nostalgia when looking at the old Oilers unis as they are represented on the Tyler Rose.

I understand about the records and franchise ownership, and don't really care that they are not in Houston. But, I think they should have been retired with the Oilers logo and the Titans start fresh with new records. It is disingenuous to fans of both cities to drag "franchise records" from one place to another, IMO. But that's just my take.



This is true, but he is willing to force a new head coach to deal with wasting a year trying to improve a busted QB.

True but the new head coach did say he could win with that QB didn't he? Then we need to know if Kubiak had to say that to get the job or if Bob McNair would have hired him if he'd said "I can't do anything with this guy. He's a nice young man but he's not going to win in the NFL".

I've often wondered about that.

Bob McNair has been a nube owner and he's made a lot of mistakes early on. I've been very critical of him at various times but his team understands PR, maybe even too well. We all share the same refrain that I think we got from Vinny about the Texans being a Public Relations firm with a football division. Sometimes you just wish they'd be a little less "Has that been cleared by our lawyers" about things but a trip down the Bud Adams version of Memory Lane puts a stop to that right away. The Texans keep everything under their hat which can be frustrating at times but it beats the hell out of having your GM walk around with his pants down around his ankles.

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by Hervoyel

True but the new head coach did say he could win with that QB didn't he? Then we need to know if Kubiak had to say that to get the job or if Bob McNair would have hired him if he'd said "I can't do anything with this guy. He's a nice young man but he's not going to win in the NFL".

I've often wondered about that.

yeah, it's one of those things that we probably will never really know unless Kubiak wins Super Bowls and writes an autobiography after retiring.

I tend to think that it was McNair, and here's my speculative reasoning: upon hiring Kubiak, they offer an $8 million bonus to extend for three more seasons. Within a year, dude was gone from the team. IF that had been a Kubiak endorsement, I think pride would have prevailed and he would have continued to try to get it to work. But, as it is, the QB was a Sage-broken-hand away from being replaced by the back-up during the season.

Originally Posted by Hervoyel

Bob McNair has been a nube owner and he's made a lot of mistakes early on. I've been very critical of him at various times but his team understands PR, maybe even too well. We all share the same refrain that I think we got from Vinny about the Texans being a Public Relations firm with a football division. Sometimes you just wish they'd be a little less "Has that been cleared by our lawyers" about things but a trip down the Bud Adams version of Memory Lane puts a stop to that right away. The Texans keep everything under their hat which can be frustrating at times but it beats the hell out of having your GM walk around with his pants down around his ankles.

LOL! yeah, I'll take ReliantWorld and the fan-friendly-first atmosphere of our Texans over the Grinchville attitude of the previous owner any day of the week. We definitely have that history to reflect upon and deepen our appreciation for what we have now, that's for sure.

No doubt about it.

[spurstexanstros]

Can some one Quote Herv's epic post from above. any time BA rambles about the great tradition of the Titans.-Thank you.

[Texan_Bill]

Originally Posted by spurstexanstros

Can some one Quote Herv's epic post from above. any time BA rambles about the great tradition of the Titans.-Thank you.

But a fan of that organization should at least know the condensed version of Herv's post. Shouldn't they??