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Old 06-30-2004   #41
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Bottom line is that if you don't have some good guys up front, the LB's are worthless.
And, if the guys up front are above average, then your LB's tend to get nice free agent contracts....see James Posey.
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Old 06-30-2004   #42
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The bottom line is there are 22 men on the field at once and this is very much a team sport. Every postion group is important.
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Old 06-30-2004   #43
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i mentioned charlie clemons because he was projected at the beginning of last year to be one of our starting linebackers. i felt his contract might be more relevant to our debate because his contract was signed last year. my mistake ,however, because in truth he was only a marginal player to begin with. i was also aware that we we're still paying on him ,but his cap hit isnt nearly as bad as i thought it was...( only $975,000 according to your numbers ). fair enough.

as for what happens on the field...


Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
Looks like a ripple effect straight on thru the D
Quote:
Originally Posted by clandestin
I don't think anyone will disagree that the DL injuries played the biggest factor in our defense's plummet down the rankings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by __V__
Every postion group is important.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOgre
Bottom line is that if you don't have some good guys up front, the LB's are worthless.

all true and relevant statements wich i fully acknowledged and agreed with before your posts were even added to the conversation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by powda
the defensive line is a means by wich the linebackers can be succesfull no doubt.

and...



Quote:
Originally Posted by powda
now, as we all know, players at no postion in any defense are independent of the rest of the team. obviously a team can have 2 all-world cbs that dont amount to anything if the qb typically has 6+ seconds to make a throw.

thank you for clarifying what hopefully everyone here already knew.
my notion throughout has been in some schemes one position might play a bigger role in the success of a team then another, as a whole no offense or defense can be superior if one position is a weak link. thats a given.

consider: no team will have a good rushing game without a solid offensive line ,and a quarterback who makes the defense respect the passing game.

now consider those same elements and include a truly great running back. that teams rushing production just went from good to great. why?

the running back.

all pices played signifigant roles ,but the additon of a great running back was the final determining factor. the biggest factor.

my contention has been that the diffrence between a good defense and a great defense will depend upon the production of our linebackers. thats where babin comes in. babin and wong specificaly will be counted on to pressure the quarterback more then any other players. and pressure is after all the staple of our defense.


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Good debate.
agreed. right or wrong im enjoying this.
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Old 06-30-2004   #44
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Glad to see you finally show up around here Powda. I see you have jumped right in.
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Old 06-30-2004   #45
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lol.

yeah i have. and the waters neck level and rising.

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Old 06-30-2004   #46
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lol..... im loving this when i started this post all i really wanted to do was find out the opinion, on the effect babin would have on the team. I mean obviously one player does not make a team, but he does contribute to the success of the team.

Now there are lots of people who are talking about 22 men, team sport, etc which is all very honurable and all, but the truth is you are going to have a better chance of success if you have the best individuals in each position. The job of building a team, as such, is down to the coach's.

now what i wanted to know is what effect do you think babin will have on our team? how much of a upgrade is he? for his first year, and for his texans career.

The case of Glenn is a good point if we had of had him for the games he missed how many do you think we would have one? you see one player can and will make a diffrence.

my personal opinion is that Babin gives our team a better rushing threat on the qb, that alone should (Hopefully) change the way other teams play against us. Now even if babin does not put up great individual stats, i think that our rushing stats for the team will improve overall because of his presence.

Now does that sound about right to anyone?
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Old 07-01-2004   #47
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I like the debate. As far as Babin, we all know HE by himself is not going to make or break the season - HOWEVER, given his size, speed, instincts, passion, intangibles, I don't believe the transition to the next level and the new position will be all that tough of a move for him. I don't expect we should have to wait too long for him to become a big part of a solid defensive team.
I agree more pressure is on D. Robinson at corner than Babin, because of the move of Coleman, and the fact that we play in the AFC south.
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Old 07-01-2004   #48
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The one thing that is good about the Robinson pick and him starting so early is because of two people. Marcus Coleman and Marlon Mcree. By having Mcree signed we can let Coleman go back to his CB spot should Robinson need more time to develop, thus letting Mcree take back over the FS position. So really this would be the year to put Robinson in as a starter. He will get his reps for as long as Glenn stays healthy because I am sure many QBs will not be throwing Glenn's way this season.
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Old 07-01-2004   #49
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"D-Rob" is under more pressure to perform (at least by most fans and the media). he was drafted higher, he makes more money, and his mistakes will be far more visible then babin's.

as for a forecast of babin's performance this year:

5-8 sacks (should be realistic i think),

70-80 tackles,

a LOT of qb pressures,

and an ankle injury or pulled hamstring wich inhibits his performance for a portion of the year. i say that half tongue in cheek ,but i wont be surprised if its true. have you seen how quick this guy is for a man his size? incredible.

and let me include...from what i've seen his demeanor is a nice change of pace. profesional to no end. and he didnt B.S. when it came to his contract. i'm really looking forward to what he does here.

Last edited by powda; 07-01-2004 at 08:17 PM.
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Old 07-02-2004   #50
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Exclamation Babin is a Workhorse.....PERIOD!!!

Ok guys, I figure it's time for me to throw my 2 cents in. I am an alum of Western Michigan, graduating recently, watching Babin come up through my college career, hell even had some classes with the guy and frequented the bar scenes with him. On and off the field the guy is a class act, bottomline. He is a gym rat, who has tons of that dangerous word, potential, who can still mold himself into a dominate LB in this league. The dude is one of the fiercest kids I've ever known and a pure animal on the field. Off the field, Jason stays out of trouble, has great family sense that links him to suporting his local community and is just a great all around guy. Now being up in Detroit I have no choice but to be a die-hard LIONS fan, but come week 3, I'll be sporting my recently ordered Babin #93 Texans Jersey.
Looks like you guys have a good board here, I'm glad to be a part of it now.
Oh yeah, how bought some Houston inside beats on Andre Johnson, that kid is sick and he's my #1 fantasy sleeper....who's with me?
So until next time....

WAR WMU Broncos
WAR LIONS
WAR Houston
and WAR Training Camp creeping up on us....

I....AM......OUT!!!
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Old 07-02-2004   #51
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After watching AJs rookie performance I wouldn't consider him a sleeper. I think he's a legit starting fantasy WR this season.

We know it will be tough at times for Jason as a rookie to adjust to the NFL and learn this defense but like you, I think he has the potential to be very good. He'll have to play run-stopper, pass-rusher, and drop into coverage from time to time against NFL talent so my guess is that it's not going to be easy for him right away. Hopefully, he settles in and becomes the impact player we need him to be. He needs to be very good to justify the Day 1 move we made to get him.

Welcome aboard.
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Old 07-02-2004   #52
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Default Johnson

I agree about Johnson being a solid starter....however I fair from the land of the Lions....as far as the Fantasy leagues go up here....Johnson flys under the radar. He will be a GREAT 4th or 5th rounder. I play in a 16 team league, starting:
2 QB
2 RB
3 WR
1 TE
1 K
1 DEF
1 Utility Player

Draft gets tough for everyone, but its a format I would suggest to anyone looking for a competetive 16 team league, no more, no less.
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Old 07-02-2004   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WMUBroncos
On and off the field the guy is a class act, bottomline.
That is the kinda guys the Texans covet.

Onto the fantasy side of this topic(s) IMO, this year johnson will be a great #3 WR for any fantasy team. He could even beat out your #2 WR. He is poised to have a breakout year. And he is the goto guy in the air for Houston.

Welcome aboard WMUBroncos

Last edited by Blake; 07-02-2004 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 07-02-2004   #54
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Glad to have you WMU. Thanks for the scoop.
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