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Old 04-09-2009   #21
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Default Re: Forbes Magazine says Texans NFLs best at Drafting over the last 3 years

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Originally Posted by pbat488 View Post
Don't forget that Casserly was a huge reason for the success of the Redskins in the 80s. He discovered alot of players in later rounds and UD players that would end up being huge contributors.. Jacoby and Bostic are two prime examples, so was getting Brian Mitchell from UL-M, maybe? (it was definitely in LA) and converting him from QB to KR/PR/RB and being extremely successful.

2006 was also his last draft, and he was working in conjunction with Kubes yes, but he was big on Mario and we have to give him credit for that. The other 4 years....
From what I remember Casserly was big on Reggie Bush but the contract demands snagged and McNair opted for Williams. Sucks he wasn't for him but gets the "genius" label for being forced to take a player as he was on his way out the door after 4 terrible years.

He does get credit for OD though. Far as genius....probably most genius right now staying with his gig as GM analyst for NFL network instead of getting back in.
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Old 04-09-2009   #22
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Default Re: Forbes Magazine says Texans NFLs best at Drafting over the last 3 years

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Well, I think I'll be the first to disagree with Thorn...

Yeah we had holes to fill, but so did previous Texans teams...So do all crappy teams...Look at the Lions...

Having holes to fill does not guarantee that you will find players in the draft that will prove that they can play ball...

Look at the Patriots...I'd say that they draft pretty well...even though the article lists them as last...

The Colts....They are a good team and they are listed right behind us...I don't think the talent on your team has a whole lot to do with it, but no doubt it does play a role in the players you retain...

Face it...We have people that are adept at finding talented players...
Some even went to the pro bowl.

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Old 04-10-2009   #23
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Default Re: Forbes Magazine says Texans NFLs best at Drafting over the last 3 years

I'd have more respect for this assessment if they actually knew there were only SEVEN rounds in the draft

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Guessing Game
The NFL draft is all about potential, a stock market of big men in pads and helmets. Despite all of the scouting, speed trials, interviews and intelligence tests that teams require of potential draft picks, there is no surefire way to know if a player just out of college will be able to make it in the NFL.

The eight-round draft is rife with mistakes on both ends of the spectrum: Ryan Leaf, the first pick of the San Diego Chargers in 1998, turned out to be fool's gold and was out of the NFL within four years. Tom Brady, the three-time Super Bowl winner for the New England Patriots and one of the best quarterbacks of all time, was the 199th player chosen in the 2000 draft, a hidden gem passed over by every NFL team multiple times.
There hasn't been an 8-round draft since 1993.

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Old 04-10-2009   #24
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Default Re: Forbes Magazine says Texans NFLs best at Drafting over the last 3 years

2006

This year is the year that makes Houston look fantastic at drafting, and the greatest part is that it's also the year that initially made Houston look like drafting fools due to the Mario Williams/Reggie Bush controversy. Has BSPN eaten enough crow yet? Anyway, I also think that this year shows that draft success needs about a three year history before reflecting on successes and failures. This is something that I take issue with over the assessment posted in the initial link.

Successes: Mario Williams, DeMeco Ryans, Eric Winston, Owen Daniels, David Anderson

Failures: Charles Spencer, Wali Lundy

Williams, Ryans, and Daniels are all Pro Bowlers. They are excellent examples of Houston's good drafting ability and examples of Pro Bowlers being the primary criteria for good drafting.

Winston is a starter. Some people think he is on the verge of being a Pro Bowler.

Anderson contributes a lot and was a 7th round draft choice. However, I'm not so sure that this isn't more of an example of our roster not being great than our drafting ability being great. Actually, Anderson kind of highlights the lack of practical significance to the question. Maybe we have a bad roster but Anderson is playing and producing.

Spencer may have been a good tackle, but he was injured. Woulda, coulda, and shoulda can not factor into whether or not we are good at drafting IMO. Otherwise, I think he would have been counted as a success as well.

Wali Lundy started for us at one point, and Lundy is an example of our roster not being good. I think Lundy emphasizes the importance of whether or not a player is still contributing to your team versus how your roster quality affects the number of drafted players starting for you.

2007

There are still a lot of questions from the 2007 draft. Maybe it's too early to tell, or maybe it just wasn't a great draft for Houston. All of these "pending" category players are contributors. Many of them have even started. But, they all have question marks, and I can not confidently say that they are successes or failures at this point. All of the questions related to this year illustrate that the third year is probably a more reasonable time to begin evaluations being that the hopes for players in the first year have been tested and still need time for triumph. Dramatic, huh.

Successes: Fred Bennett

Failures: Brandon Frye

Pending: Amobi Okoye, Jacoby Jones, Brandon Harrison, Kasey Studdard, Zac Diles

Bennett is a fourth round cornerback and is quality depth. He's even shown flashes of being a quality starter. If he was drafted any higher, I would list him as pending with many of the other players from this draft.

Frye is not on the team anymore and did not contribute when he was on the team.

Okoye had a good rookie year and a rough sophomore year. I think he will be much improved next season under our new coaching staff, but the jury is still out on Okoye.

Jones has had fumble problems, has not developed as a wide receiver, and is rumored to not be focused on football. Jones was a third round pick, so I think this level of scrutiny is appropriate. Jones has also shown that he can be amazing as a kick/punt returner. However, unlike Okoye, I do not think Jones will be working out for us, but I hope that he proves me wrong.

I would consider Harrison and Studdard failures, but they were drafted in later rounds. I do not know of anyone that thinks of either of them as quality backups at this point, but I am finding it hard to categorize either of them as failures just yet. Let's just say that they are not making Houston look like drafting gurus.

If Diles returns from his injury without any problems, Diles is a success. If Diles doesn't return, he's similar to Spencer. I wish Diles a successful recovery. I have not heard of any injury updates on Diles, and he may already be well on his way or even perfectly healthy at this time. We may need to upgrade at Dile's position, but he is still a success as a seventh round starter. Like Anderson, I think Diles is an example of the debate over the quality of the roster.

2008

In the first year, we are probably evaluating too soon. I think it's interesting that the draft looks so much more promising after one year than after two years, but it could also be that 2008 was a better draft than 2007. Only time will tell of course.

Successes: Duane Brown, Steve Slaton, Xavier Adibi, Frank Okam, Dominique Barber,

Failures: N/A

Pending: Antwaun Molden, Alex Brink

Brown is a success at this point IMO. I like Brown's attitude. Brown is a great run blocker and held up pretty well as a rookie against some tough competition. The release of Ephraim Salaam indicates that the Houston front office feels the same way. However, there are still some questions about Brown's conditioning although the HT.com news is careful to report that Brown is better conditioned already.

It would be hard, and foolish, to argue that Slaton was anything but a success, and Slaton is another excellent example of what Houston is capable of in the draft.

Adibi proved to be a good weak side linebacker last year prior to his injury, and he seems to be healthy now.

Okam is a good backup for us since we need his size which is not bad for a fifth round defensive tackle, and Barber seems to be a quality backup as a sixth round safety. Both have some fans that want to see more playing time for them, and Barber even has a potential to start.

Molden has been a good special teams player, but as a third round selection, he needs to develop into a starting cornerback for Houston.

Brink is a seventh round quarterback project, and I believe he is on the practice squad. He may or may not end up contributing to the team in the future, but so far, he hasn't.

Overall

Houston has had success with late round contributors like David Anderson, Zac Diles, and Dominique Barber. Maybe Houston's roster quality led to their opportunities to contribute but, in the end, they are still helping the team succeed, and this kind of drafting ability is one reason why Houston continues to get better and better under Rick Smith and Gary Kubiak.

Even more importantly, Houston has also had major successes like Mario Williams, DeMeco Ryans, Owen Daniels, and Steve Slaton. These are Pro Bowl level players (c'mon Slaton should be in the Pro Bowl). I don't think anyone can deny Houston's drafting prowess with these guys in their portfolio.

If the third year is the best time to evaluate the success of a draft, then I think it is fair to say that Houston is excellent when it comes to selecting players that will contribute. The next couple of years will determine if that 2006 draft was a fluke or not, but I'm believing there will be at least a couple more Pro Bowlers out of these drafts.

Last edited by J. Sean Wonton; 04-10-2009 at 05:35 AM.
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Old 04-10-2009   #25
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Default Re: Forbes Magazine says Texans NFLs best at Drafting over the last 3 years

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Originally Posted by pbat488 View Post
Don't forget that Casserly was a huge reason for the success of the Redskins in the 80s. He discovered alot of players in later rounds and UD players that would end up being huge contributors.. Jacoby and Bostic are two prime examples, so was getting Brian Mitchell from UL-M, maybe? (it was definitely in LA) and converting him from QB to KR/PR/RB and being extremely successful.

2006 was also his last draft, and he was working in conjunction with Kubes yes, but he was big on Mario and we have to give him credit for that. The other 4 years....
Jeff Bostic was not drafted by Washington. He was a late round pick of the Eagles. He was released with an injured foot and later picked up by Washington.
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Old 04-10-2009   #26
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Default Re: Forbes Magazine says Texans NFLs best at Drafting over the last 3 years

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Originally Posted by J. Sean Wonton View Post
Overall

Houston has had success with late round contributors like David Anderson, Zac Diles, and Dominique Barber. Maybe Houston's roster quality led to their opportunities to contribute but, in the end, they are still helping the team succeed, and this kind of drafting ability is one reason why Houston continues to get better and better under Rick Smith and Gary Kubiak.

Even more importantly, Houston has also had major successes like Mario Williams, DeMeco Ryans, Owen Daniels, and Steve Slaton. These are Pro Bowl level players (c'mon Slaton should be in the Pro Bowl). I don't think anyone can deny Houston's drafting prowess with these guys in their portfolio.

If the third year is the best time to evaluate the success of a draft, then I think it is fair to say that Houston is excellent when it comes to selecting players that will contribute. The next couple of years will determine if that 2006 draft was a fluke or not, but I'm believing there will be at least a couple more Pro Bowlers out of these drafts.
Good post, man.

A few minor disagreements.
1. I'd consider Adibi pending at this point. He has played better than Greenwood when he was in there but that doesn't necessarily mean he was playing well. And his health is a huge concern. We don't know last year was a fluke or if he's just going to be a backup who gets injured a lot.

2. I'd consider Frank Okam pending at this point. If he can get motivated, he could be a huge success (no pun intended.) But at this point, he really hasn't stepped up.

3. I think Lundy is an interesting case. I think that Lundy's problem wasn't talent or ability to play, I think his problem was character. I think he got let go because the team became aware of his drug problems and probably his lack of desire to play football. This is just supposition on my part, but that's the way I see it. He didn't perform badly when he was in there.

4. I'd give Harrison a little more slack. He played a bunch of minutes for us last year and contributed quite a bit both on defense and on special teams. Granted, he also screwed up a few times... like being out of position against the wildcat against the Dolphins. And he looks weird and slow when he runs. But, hey, he got more tackles than Travis Johnson got.
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Old 04-10-2009   #27
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Default Re: Forbes Magazine says Texans NFLs best at Drafting over the last 3 years

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Good post, man.

A few minor disagreements.
1. I'd consider Adibi pending at this point. He has played better than Greenwood when he was in there but that doesn't necessarily mean he was playing well. And his health is a huge concern. We don't know last year was a fluke or if he's just going to be a backup who gets injured a lot.

2. I'd consider Frank Okam pending at this point. If he can get motivated, he could be a huge success (no pun intended.) But at this point, he really hasn't stepped up.

3. I think Lundy is an interesting case. I think that Lundy's problem wasn't talent or ability to play, I think his problem was character. I think he got let go because the team became aware of his drug problems and probably his lack of desire to play football. This is just supposition on my part, but that's the way I see it. He didn't perform badly when he was in there.

4. I'd give Harrison a little more slack. He played a bunch of minutes for us last year and contributed quite a bit both on defense and on special teams. Granted, he also screwed up a few times... like being out of position against the wildcat against the Dolphins. And he looks weird and slow when he runs. But, hey, he got more tackles than Travis Johnson got.
Thank you, TPN.

Adibi: I think he played well by most accounts, but you're right about the durability concerns. We'll list him as pending.

Okam: Okay, in fairness to Harrison and Studdard we'll list Okam as pending as well. Although he's a fifth round defensive tackle that was drafted for his size. I don't know that we can expect him to be a steal. As far as I'm concerned, he just needs to stay healthy and not cause problems. I guess my expectations are too low for him.

Lundy: Character issues are actually a drafting problem to me, so I still think we got this selection wrong. He had ability and started, but he's gone now for whatever reason. Failure.

Harrison: So, he's a success as a backup acquired in late rounds? To me, Dominique Barber and Fred Bennett are those guys, but I'm not sure about Brandon Harrison. I'll take your word for it.

I'm curious what other people on the board think about Harrison. We might as well throw Okam and Adibi into that discussion as well. I'm mainly curious what people think about their play on the field when they've had opportunities.
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Old 04-10-2009   #28
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Default Re: Forbes Magazine says Texans NFLs best at Drafting over the last 3 years

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Thank you, TPN.

Adibi: I think he played well by most accounts, but you're right about the durability concerns. We'll list him as pending.

Okam: Okay, in fairness to Harrison and Studdard we'll list Okam as pending as well. Although he's a fifth round defensive tackle that was drafted for his size. I don't know that we can expect him to be a steal. As far as I'm concerned, he just needs to stay healthy and not cause problems. I guess my expectations are too low for him.

Lundy: Character issues are actually a drafting problem to me, so I still think we got this selection wrong. He had ability and started, but he's gone now for whatever reason. Failure.

Harrison: So, he's a success as a backup acquired in late rounds? To me, Dominique Barber and Fred Bennett are those guys, but I'm not sure about Brandon Harrison. I'll take your word for it.

I'm curious what other people on the board think about Harrison. We might as well throw Okam and Adibi into that discussion as well. I'm mainly curious what people think about their play on the field when they've had opportunities.
I've got really high expectations for Okam even considering where he was drafted. The guy is amazingly talented and when he wants to, he can be a force. But at this point, he just hasn't played that much: 5 games and 4 tackles. I really was hoping that he was going to become the NT that we need beside Okoye but so far, he hasn't been that. I'm still hoping.

I'll give you Lundy as a fail.

I think Harrison played more than you realize last year. He started 6 games for us and we went 5-1 in those games (not that I think his starting really had that much influence). He had 10 tackles against the Dolphins and 6 tackles against the Packers, both games he started.
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Old 04-10-2009   #29
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Default Re: Forbes Magazine says Texans NFLs best at Drafting over the last 3 years

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3. I think Lundy is an interesting case. I think that Lundy's problem wasn't talent or ability to play, I think his problem was character. I think he got let go because the team became aware of his drug problems and probably his lack of desire to play football. This is just supposition on my part, but that's the way I see it. He didn't perform badly when he was in there.
PN, where did you here/read this? I thought Lundy was a high character guy and I certainly never heard anything about a drug problem. Do you have a link or anything?
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Old 04-10-2009   #30
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Default Re: Forbes Magazine says Texans NFLs best at Drafting over the last 3 years

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PN, where did you here/read this? I thought Lundy was a high character guy and I certainly never heard anything about a drug problem. Do you have a link or anything?
The year after he was released from the Texans, he was arrested in Burlington Township, New Jersey.

I tried to find better links but hope this is satisfactory. You could also search this forum. I'm sure there were threads when it happened.
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Old 04-11-2009   #31
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Default Re: Forbes Magazine says Texans NFLs best at Drafting over the last 3 years

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4. I'd give Harrison a little more slack. He played a bunch of minutes for us last year and contributed quite a bit both on defense and on special teams. Granted, he also screwed up a few times... like being out of position against the wildcat against the Dolphins. And he looks weird and slow when he runs. But, hey, he got more tackles than Travis Johnson got.
I'm not big on Harrison and I think he is going to struggle to make the team this year. He's another looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane. He had a lot of tackles because our front 7 was soft, didn't stop the run well and he had to tackle lots of wr's that caught passes on our cornerbacks who didn't display many ball skills...which wasn't helped by our lack of a pass rush. Yes, this is your brain on drugs.
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Old 04-11-2009   #32
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Default Re: Forbes Magazine says Texans NFLs best at Drafting over the last 3 years

Quote:
Don't forget that Casserly was a huge reason for the success of the Redskins in the 80s. He discovered alot of players in later rounds and UD players that would end up being huge contributors.. Jacoby and Bostic are two prime examples, so was getting Brian Mitchell from UL-M, maybe? (it was definitely in LA) and converting him from QB to KR/PR/RB and being extremely successful.
http://archive.profootballweekly.com...ges_053000.asp

Bobby Beathard.

what I know for a fact: CC couldn't find an offensive tackle if his life depended on it. And you never pick a 4-3 GM to scout talent for a three four defensive coach. Doesn't work.


I think, unless his leg doesn't heal properly.....a common occurrence with this team....you have to move Dilles out of the uncertain pile. Two years removed from being drafted and he's leading the team in tackles at the time he got hurt ? That's pretty fair for a seventh rounder. Our interpretation's of a HR for a seventh round pick differ radically. With him and Adibi out of the line up we sucked .... heavily.
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Old 04-11-2009   #33
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Default Re: Forbes Magazine says Texans NFLs best at Drafting over the last 3 years

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http://archive.profootballweekly.com...ges_053000.asp

Bobby Beathard.

what I know for a fact: CC couldn't find an offisive tackle if his life depended on it. And you never pick a 4-3 GM to scout talent for a three four defensive coach. Doesn't work.
Yep

CC draft expert my a**

CC proves it's who you know or bl** or he wouldn't have to see his face on NFLN.
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