Scout In. Top 32 - 12/5/08

[threetoedpete]

Well in the foiurth quarter with the game in doubt.....Weaver turned up alone in space with a shot at Rodgers to make a saftey. He wiffed. First step guy gets the sack. And maybe a saftey. Keep him don't keep him, whatever.

I understand beerlover wanting to hammer the LB first. What I can't understand is folks excepting Weavers lack of production all season long. We can do better than this.

[mussop]

Originally Posted by threetoedpete

Well in the foiurth quarter with the game in doubt.....Weaver turned up alone in space with a shot at Rodgers to make a saftey. He wiffed. First step guy gets the sack. And maybe a saftey. Keep him don't keep him, whatever.

I understand beerlover wanting to hammer the LB first. What I can't understand is folks excepting Weavers lack of production all season long. We can do better than this.

I agree. Weevers production as of late is to little to late. He has had plenty of time to earn his contract and didnt do it. Same goes for Richard Smith.

[TexansSeminole]

Weaver just simply doesn't fit our defense. We already have a big run stuffing DE in Mario Williams. He just happens to also be a great pass rusher.

We need a guy like Brown or Orakpo the more and more I think about it.

Which side would the offense put their TE on to help out? Either way your letting a great pass rusher rush with only one guy blocking him. A RB just simple will not be able to consistently chip block these guys.

[b0ng]

Originally Posted by threetoedpete

Well in the foiurth quarter with the game in doubt.....Weaver turned up alone in space with a shot at Rodgers to make a saftey. He wiffed. First step guy gets the sack. And maybe a saftey. Keep him don't keep him, whatever.

I understand beerlover wanting to hammer the LB first. What I can't understand is folks excepting Weavers lack of production all season long. We can do better than this.

I am in agreement with this. Weaver is a 6 million dollar albatross in the DL and his play can easily be replicated by most FA's and they'll do it at about 1/6th of the cost.

Weaver has had 2 or 3 "decent" games for him. If his name was Mario Williams he'd have the press all over him as well as the fans. Cut him, or restructure his contract, it's a money thing.

[Honoring Earl 34]

Originally Posted by TexansSeminole

Weaver just simply doesn't fit our defense. We already have a big run stuffing DE in Mario Williams. He just happens to also be a great pass rusher.

We need a guy like Brown or Orakpo the more and more I think about it.

Which side would the offense put their TE on to help out? Either way your letting a great pass rusher rush with only one guy blocking him. A RB just simple will not be able to consistently chip block these guys.

I agree and wouldn't be opposed to taking a playmaking olb in the 2nd if one fell .

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by b0ng

I am in agreement with this. Weaver is a 6 million dollar albatross in the DL and his play can easily be replicated by most FA's and they'll do it at about 1/6th of the cost.

Weaver has had 2 or 3 "decent" games for him. If his name was Mario Williams he'd have the press all over him as well as the fans. Cut him, or restructure his contract, it's a money thing.

For the first time it is becoming a palatable money thing. Weaver will have a cap hit of $6.2 mil next year if he is on the team. He has $5.4 mil in unprorated signing bonus so there would be a small amount of cap relief if taken in one year or they could split it over two years as a June 1st cut. Hate seeing another $5.4 mil in dead money but the production needs to be upped.

[Wolf6151]

Since the change in defense the last 3 weeks from a read and react scheme to an attacking scheme, Weaver has played better and the new scheme makes it much more difficult to assess players. In the read and react scheme Weaver has been terrible but in the new attacking scheme he's been much better. The problem is knowing what type of defense we're going to be running next year and whether or not Richard Smith will be gone or not. Does the new defensive scheme save Richard Smiths job as well as Weavers and will McNair be willing add that much dead money to the payroll as well as paying whoever replaces Weaver. Also will a new hopefully younger, aggressive, Defensive Coordinator be brought in to change things? These last 3 weeks have really complicated things on defense in terms of the draft. Here's hoping that Smith is gone and we hire a new, young, aggressive Defensive Coordinator that will keep the 4-3 and pick some really young, aggressive talent to carry us to the playoffs.

Also drafting currently in the 13 position we've dropped away from many of the elite players unless someone falls and the only really good players that I can see being picked in the teens that we might be interested in are Mays, Curry, or Vontae Davis. Since we've been winning games and dropping in the draft position it really makes trading down for extra picks look much better. Picking up an extra 3rd and possibly 4th round pick would be really nice in such a deep draft year.

[Ole Miss Texan]

Originally Posted by Wolf6151

Also drafting currently in the 13 position we've dropped away from many of the elite players unless someone falls and the only really good players that I can see being picked in the teens that we might be interested in are Mays, Curry, or Vontae Davis. Since we've been winning games and dropping in the draft position it really makes trading down for extra picks look much better. Picking up an extra 3rd and possibly 4th round pick would be really nice in such a deep draft year.

I always view that as a plus. With top money being paid through #8 (Hardy) last year, anything in the top 10 and your not only choosing a high risk/high reward player- but your putting a lot of money on that bet. We saw a couple trades (N.O. and JAX) but I think teams are going to be VERY hesitant to do that. Harvey and Ellis were both highly coveted players and havn't really looked outstanding to say the least. Teams aren't going to be as willing to pay that top money as they used to. I see picking outside the top 10 as a real positive b/c your going to have options of real solid players, some 'elite' guy may drop and it could tempt other teams. Picking at #18, we saw a good deal come through but that WAS a trade for a QB- unlikely this year. I think the 1st and 2nd round are going to be flooded with really good talent.

[beerlover]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

For the first time it is becoming a palatable money thing. Weaver will have a cap hit of $6.2 mil next year if he is on the team. He has $5.4 mil in unprorated signing bonus so there would be a small amount of cap relief if taken in one year or they could split it over two years as a June 1st cut. Hate seeing another $5.4 mil in dead money but the production needs to be upped.

ain't happening, just eat it

[BigBull17]

Originally Posted by bah007

I've been on that bandwagon a while now too. Brown or Orakpo teamed up with Mario would be a dominate force.

Anyone not named Weaver opposite Mario would be nice. Bulman is good, but an upgrade is needed. Would love DE, FS, OLB in the first. Get the other two in round 2 and 3, than RB, DB depth, a project QB, like Daniels from Mizzou, and a slot type speed demon WR in the 7th.

[YoungTexanFan]

Originally Posted by BigBull17

Anyone not named Weaver opposite Mario would be nice. Bulman is good, but an upgrade is needed. Would love DE, FS, OLB in the first. Get the other two in round 2 and 3, than RB, DB depth, a project QB, like Daniels from Mizzou, and a slot type speed demon WR in the 7th.

First of all, it's Daniel. Next, he is not a "project" QB. Daniel won't be an NFL QB because of physical limitations. Daniel has together between the ears to an extent (KU's MVP!!! Muck Fizzou). You don't draft a "project" QB hoping that he grows 4 inches and gains 20 yards of arm strength. You draft a "project" QB like Josh Freeman (at least where he should be drafted; again: KU's MVP!!!). You draft someone with off the chart measurables who is lacking between the ears (and oh boy is Freeman lacking between the ears).

[gtexan02]

Originally Posted by beerlover

ain't happening, just eat it

I will say, Weaver has been playing much,much better as of late (it appears). I've seen him playing the run better than I've seen him play

[threetoedpete]

Originally Posted by beerlover

the more I think about it the less inclined I'm in favour of taking another DL in the 1st, would prefer waiting till 2nd or 3rd., all depends who is available? glaring need besides DE to complement Mario is an elite LB to help DeMeco Ryan, power RB to split duties w/Steve Slaton & a chance for Gibbs to solidify the OL between the tackles.

Everyone is going to say that I've got Orange glasses on....but Adam Ulatoski would be a nice pick up in the third or later. He has experience at both tackle spots. Fits the scheme, and in big games he always comes up with big blocks.
Cheap insurance in case things don't work out next September.

The center from Louisville, Erick Wood is also on my radar. He made Mayock's list of top centers....so did the Penn St. guy BTW. And of course the usual suspects. Mayock really likes Unger and Wood. Said both, Unger and Wood could cover three out of five o-line spots. And cover them with high end production. That there thingy is what you call versatile.

[BigBull17]

Originally Posted by YoungTexanFan

First of all, it's Daniel. Next, he is not a "project" QB. Daniel won't be an NFL QB because of physical limitations. Daniel has together between the ears to an extent (KU's MVP!!! Muck Fizzou). You don't draft a "project" QB hoping that he grows 4 inches and gains 20 yards of arm strength. You draft a "project" QB like Josh Freeman (at least where he should be drafted; again: KU's MVP!!!). You draft someone with off the chart measurables who is lacking between the ears (and oh boy is Freeman lacking between the ears).

First, sorry for putting an S on the end of his name. I didnt know it was such an insult. Second, thats why I said like him. I was using him as an example, not pleading his case. Third, I dont want a guy at QB "lacking" between the ears, see VY. Just a developmental QB who can play the position.

[YoungTexanFan]

Originally Posted by BigBull17

First, sorry for putting an S on the end of his name. I didnt know it was such an insult. Second, thats why I said like him. I was using him as an example, not pleading his case. Third, I dont want a guy at QB "lacking" between the ears, see VY. Just a developmental QB who can play the position.

Most of the "developmental" QB's that get drafted late have some good physical attributes. I like the idea of drafting a late QB to develop, but not Daniel. You draft a QB with good size and an above average arm that has shown flashes. Daniel is pretty much maxed out on what he is going to be. He isn't growing, and he is pretty developed as a QB as it is. A QB who is lacking between the ears to say, is the type of QB who can be developed. You cannot teach height, arm strength, speed. You can teach a QB how to move in the pocket, better understand defensive schemes, make quicker reads.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by threetoedpete

Nobody likes this but with his contract, they are pretty much have their chips on 35. Bennit should rebound next season. He won't be the first young corner who did well as a rookie and then strruggled as a sophmore. If you know the guy is going to be there for you, and you're in love with the corner....you pick the guy. Trade the young gun and pick up a day two pick for the young gun for a prospect for 2010.

Can't believe the Penn St. guy has better first step than Brown or Orakpo.

Wonder how far Arian Foster will fall ?

I think it's odd, that we have talented players who come in and show promise their first year, then drop off.... and that we see a lot of it in the backfield.


Then they go and fire our Secondary coach.........

Seriously, how many times have we said, if only he'd have looked for the ball.

[threetoedpete]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

I think it's odd, that we have talented players who come in and show promise their first year, then drop off.... and that we see a lot of it in the backfield.


Then they go and fire our Secondary coach.........

Seriously, how many times have we said, if only he'd have looked for the ball.

Plus...Green Bay hired Hoke before he could sign up for unemployment. A lot of people have fallen on their swords for the Texans. Can't fire the players.

I understand. I gotta assume they knew what they were getting when they gave Reeves the contract. What you got is what few DBs have, world class make up speed. My solution, let him run man up. He's best when he's facing the QB anyway. They've got Anton Molden in the wings and Freddie with confidence issues. They may want to bang the Db's early. They could. But I see a lot of draft capitol on the roster already. I don't think they will bang it high.

But the key to the DBs has always been and always will be .......pressure.

....when they get it our DBs make plays. Even our lowly talented, low draft pick guys. Is upgrading the DB's going to result in more take aways next season if there isn't more consistent pressure from the front seven ? Less passing TDs given up ? Move the defense into the top ten statistically ?

I don't think it matters how talented they are without the pressure. Some do. Once they flipped safety's in the middle of the season, the defense got more consistent. That there thingy is the truth. So I guess it comes down to...are we going to live with the inconsistant pressure and over draft DBs ? Or are they going to bang the original problem, the seven year old problem, and reach for play makers to bring more pressure? Fixing the original problem fixes the DB problem. Which allows the cap friendly guys we already have on the roster @ DB to make more plays. I'm not convinced the reverse is true. Over drafting for DBs will get you more take aways, better production in pass defense,....or turnovers.

Now Wilson is in his eighth year. And Rashard Johnson from Alabama looks like a Eugene Wilson clone to me. So if they did that, I'd hold my piece. Because I know from the last seven games, that type of player will be productive for the Texans, if everything works out, for a long time. But again, with out the pressure....we're chasing our tail....and further, Payton Manning. You're not going to "out cover" Peyton Manning. I don't care who we've got lined up back there. I believe over drafting DBs is a lateral move for this football team. It's about the front seven pressure. Want the play offs ? Gotta find that in the off season.

[steelbtexan]

I would like to see the Texans take Maybin in the 1st rd. I believe he can play the SAM on 1st & 2nd down. He could play DE on 3rd down.

We would have one of the fastest LB corps in the league. With Maybin, Ryans & Adibi I believe we would have the blitzing LB's Bush was talking about @ his press confrence.

If Bush really wants a pressure defense they should draft a DE like Krueger or Williams in the 2nd rd.

Imagine a DL that looks like this on 3rd down

DE Krueger DT Mario DT Okoye DE Maybin

We should be able to get more pressure on Manning than ever before.

[beerlover]

RDE is what the Texans are looking for. if Maybin is available they add his playmaking speed to balance the power coming from Mario. this not only would help compress the pocket it funnels opponents inside. How much is Haynesworth looking to get? can you imagine a line with ability to hurt you anyway they want power/size/speed?

Honestly I don't care where scouts or anyone else rates them right now, you know a player when you see one. you combine that with knowing every weakness & strength of the Texans. I just can't imagine another player who could have as big of impact as Maybin, I also can't imagine him still on the board @ #15. can't. so we got to move on to PLAN B.

Haynesworth isn't excatly going to be cheap & probably more than the 15th pick so maybe a big body in the middle like BJ Raji or Peria is the second best move? from bpa to addressing need, a true power triad inside the box. I'm also certain there are going to be some good DE prospects available 2nd/3rd maybe even later (more developmental)that fit the bill nicely. Think Synergy. No reason to think otherwise what works for the OL goes for DL too Continuity/Teamwork/Talent/Coaching.

Well thats PLAN B. reverse in order but accomplishes basicly the same thing, good DT are as hard to find as DE but now I have restored faith that Bush will assert his newfound influence where its most needed

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by beerlover

Haynesworth isn't excatly going to be cheap & probably more than the 15th pick so maybe a big body in the middle like BJ Raji or Peria is the second best move?

#15 is going to get a contract for about 5 years, $14-15 mil. Haynesworth is looking for a contract of 7 years $70-90 mil.