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Old 10-14-2008   #61
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Default Re: How bout some love for Richard Smith?

excellent point. my concern is that the "bend don't break" concept is breaking too often but i think it is sometimes due to exactly what you've stated. it's designed to work over a longer stretch of field where it can capitalize on offensive mistakes and miscues. when they've only got 50 yards to cover (or less) it hinders the defense from functioning the way it is designed. so long as we continue to show progress i'll remain on board.
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Old 10-14-2008   #62
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Default Re: How bout some love for Richard Smith?

Take away Mario and we have 1 sack: ONE,UNO as a team.
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Old 10-14-2008   #63
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Default Re: How bout some love for Richard Smith?

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Originally Posted by buddyboy View Post
Hey, this guy's been on the hotseat for a long time now, and probably for good reason.

But the game versus Miami I noticed some good things: constant pressure, blitzes, stopping the run (mostly).

How bout we suck it up and give him even a little credit for this game?
nope. no love from me. he still needs to get gone!
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Old 10-14-2008   #64
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Default Re: How bout some love for Richard Smith?

screw Richard Smith. his defense still fails to stop people when it counts. the offense bailed him out this week.

if AJ doesn't catch that ball on 4th down we are left with the defense failing to hold a lead...once again.

the guy should have been fired before last year, much less keep his job this year. he is a bum and a horrible coach.
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Old 10-14-2008   #65
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Default Re: How bout some love for Richard Smith?

Like I said in the soap thread... if I see some obvious improvement in the next game, I will toss the soap. We can't give up big plays like that and expect to win anything in this league other than the #1 pick.
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Old 10-14-2008   #66
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Default Re: How bout some love for Richard Smith?

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Originally Posted by TexansLucky13 View Post
Like I said in the soap thread... if I see some obvious improvement in the next game, I will toss the soap. We can't give up big plays like that and expect to win anything in this league other than the #1 pick.
What if we only give up 24 points to the Lions? Is that obvious improvement? I mean, we haven't held any team to 24 points yet, but still ... it's the Lions with Dan Orsafety.

I'd adopt the pink soap, but I like my avatar right now. Fire Richard Smith.
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Old 10-14-2008   #67
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Default Re: How bout some love for Richard Smith?

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Not going to happen. They still do far too many inexplicable things on that side of the ball and giving up 38, 31, 30, 31, and finally 28 points isn't the fast track to earning some props in my book. I'm not giving the guy a gold star because he finally managed to keep an opponent under 30 points.

Year in and year out Richard Smith coaches the 24th ranked defense. He's sitting right there at 23 today in yards per game, 30th in points allowed.

Make some progress for once in your life Dick and we'll talk about some appreciation.
Nor should you criticize him for the Indianapolis score. The defensive played very well that game and gave up nothing after the first quarter. Even the fourth quarter drive they had took up almost 5 minutes and was exactly what they wanted to do- eat up the clock.

I was one of the first to express concern about Smith. However, obviously the final score isn't necessarily indicative of the defense's play. The past 2 weeks I've seen a lot to be encouraged by regarding the defense...

1. lots of 3 and outs
2. low 3rd conversion rates
3. strong run defense

those are some things to be very encouraged by.
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Old 10-14-2008   #68
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Default Re: How bout some love for Richard Smith?

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
Nor should you criticize him for the Indianapolis score. The defensive played very well that game and gave up nothing after the first quarter. Even the fourth quarter drive they had took up almost 5 minutes and was exactly what they wanted to do- eat up the clock.

I was one of the first to express concern about Smith. However, obviously the final score isn't necessarily indicative of the defense's play. The past 2 weeks I've seen a lot to be encouraged by regarding the defense...

1. lots of 3 and outs
2. low 3rd conversion rates
3. strong run defense

those are some things to be very encouraged by.
I'll agree with that. And when those things actually translate into keeping opponents off the scoreboard, maybe I'll show some appreciation for Richard Smith.
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Old 10-14-2008   #69
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Default Re: How bout some love for Richard Smith?

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Nor should you criticize him for the Indianapolis score. The defensive played very well that game and gave up nothing after the first quarter. Even the fourth quarter drive they had took up almost 5 minutes and was exactly what they wanted to do- eat up the clock.

I was one of the first to express concern about Smith. However, obviously the final score isn't necessarily indicative of the defense's play. The past 2 weeks I've seen a lot to be encouraged by regarding the defense...

1. lots of 3 and outs
2. low 3rd conversion rates
3. strong run defense

those are some things to be very encouraged by.

Offensive turnovers have contributed to the final score as well:

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Originally Posted by Polo View Post
Here are some numbers: 3,3,0, 3, 4

We are minus 8 in the turnover category and our defense is virtually in a tie for ninth place in turnovers caused....That's top ten...That means that our offense has been giving the ball away at an alarming rate...We have 13 turnovers in 5 games and one game we didn't turn it over at all...that's terrible...We're basically top ten for turnovers caused and top ten for turnovers given away...

Nevermind how many times the offense has sent a tired defense onto the field after turning it over, or how many short fields we've had to play on...Nevermind the fact that when we do have turnovers offense has struggled to capatalize...Like in Pittsburg when we had a chance to gain a little momentum...Mario crushes Ben, Demeco runs the fumble down inside the redzone...Offense comes away with a field goal...


Turn the ball over less and I guarantee the defense looks a whole lot better...Capatalize on the turnovers our D causes and I guarantee the whole team looks better...
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Old 10-14-2008   #70
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Default Re: How bout some love for Richard Smith?

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Originally Posted by Polo View Post
Here are some numbers: 3,3,0, 3, 4

We are minus 8 in the turnover category and our defense is virtually in a tie for ninth place in turnovers caused....That's top ten...That means that our offense has been giving the ball away at an alarming rate...We have 13 turnovers in 5 games and one game we didn't turn it over at all...that's terrible...We're basically top ten for turnovers caused and top ten for turnovers given away...

Nevermind how many times the offense has sent a tired defense onto the field after turning it over, or how many short fields we've had to play on...Nevermind the fact that when we do have turnovers offense has struggled to capatalize...Like in Pittsburg when we had a chance to gain a little momentum...Mario crushes Ben, Demeco runs the fumble down inside the redzone...Offense comes away with a field goal...


Turn the ball over less and I guarantee the defense looks a whole lot better...Capatalize on the turnovers our D causes and I guarantee the whole team looks better...
I'd be inclined to agree with this if a part of me didn't feel like every time the offense is on the field they pretty much have to try to punch it in every time to keep the up with opposing offenses.

There is SOME improvement I won't jump on and say it's been a lot. Smith's defense has had a history of improving throughout the year after sluggish starts. Most of that is due to him being put under the gun IMO.
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Old 10-14-2008   #71
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Default Re: How bout some love for Richard Smith?

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Originally Posted by Polo View Post
IMHO, I just think you're analysis is wrong....Especially re: the DT's...



You don't have one DT penetrate while the rest of the line is playing gaps...That's a sure way to create a huge hole...Besides that, D-lines that play a penetrating style vs. a gap responsibility style normally give up a lot of big running plays because if they guess the wrong gap the Offensive linemans job is pretty much done for him...Even if they guess the right gap all the lineman has to do is use their momentum and push them past the hole...One DT playing a penetrating style would be ugly...And just because Okoye is not called a 'two gapper' doesn't mean he isn't actually responsible for two gaps...

As far as the rest of the defensive calls (dropping Mario and Weaver into coverage), I'll just chalk it up to who knows...Personally I don't have a problem with it, but I can see why some do....



Not blaming it all on missed tackles...Not sure why you have to go to extremes...I clearly said that I don't think Richard Smith is a talented co-ordinator who's personnel is failing him...YOU even highlighted thae sentence after that...I've said several times that I think the bad defense is a combination of multiple things and not all of them have to do with the defense itself...Offense has put them in some pretty terrible situations throughout the year...

i understand what you're saying about the DT's but the proof is in the putting & the 1st 2 games when he's had his DT's doing that we were essentially torched in the run game. fast forward to the last 3 when we've seen Okoye & the other DT's allowed to get up field & we're all of a sudden shutting team's run game down & Okoye has his best game this year. Point is, you've got to scheme to your player's strength & too often he's not done that. The bend but don't break defense works well when you've got a great players in your LB core & secondary....the secondary is our weakest area on the defense & we've got 1.5 Lbs worth a damn so why on earth would you play that?

it's kinda like others have said about the offense...we know you want to run kubes but right now we're better at passing so lets use the passing game to set up the run....we've been better since.

I'm not trying to put it all on Smith either i just don't think he's worth any kudos...
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Old 10-14-2008   #72
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Default Re: How bout some love for Richard Smith?

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i understand what you're saying about the DT's but the proof is in the putting & the 1st 2 games when he's had his DT's doing that we were essentially torched in the run game. fast forward to the last 3 when we've seen Okoye & the other DT's allowed to get up field & we're all of a sudden shutting team's run game down & Okoye has his best game this year.
Ok...

So you note that Richard Smith has made adjustments...You note that there are signs of improvement...

Am I missing something ?


Quote:
Point is, you've got to scheme to your player's strength & too often he's not done that.
According to you, he has...

If he's started letting his DT's penetrate more (I haven't noticed that, but you said you did) then isn't that playing to his players strengths/making adjustments ?

Quote:
The bend but don't break defense works well when you've got a great players in your LB core & secondary....the secondary is our weakest area on the defense & we've got 1.5 Lbs worth a damn so why on earth would you play that?
I guess it's just a matter of philophies...I don't agree with your above sentiments, but I do understand what you're saying...

Personally I believe when you have a lack of talent, bend but don't break is a great way of letting you star players eventually make a play for you while not allowing too many big plays...IMO, it's been working...We're listed as 22nd in turnovers caused, but we're basically in a tie for tenth place....If we keep up at the rate we are now, it's very likely we'll be in the top half of the league (maybe top 10) when all is said and done...




Quote:
it's kinda like others have said about the offense...we know you want to run kubes but right now we're better at passing so lets use the passing game to set up the run....we've been better since.

I'm not trying to put it all on Smith either i just don't think he's worth any kudos...
Fair enough.
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Old 10-14-2008   #73
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Default Re: How bout some love for Richard Smith?

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I'd be inclined to agree with this if a part of me didn't feel like every time the offense is on the field they pretty much have to try to punch it in every time to keep the up with opposing offenses.
Well someone needs to tell them that they don't...

Someone needs to tell them that if we just punted instead of turning it over we'd be a lot better off...

Lots of folks saying that the offense bailed out the defense this past game, but we forget that Jacoby scored one of those touchdowns after a strong defensive stand after the offense started so terribly...The defensive stand and the punt return ignited the team...According to some of the players...

Not sure why Wilson fumbling the football after defense had basically shut them down to end the game gets ignored as well...

Last edited by Polo; 10-14-2008 at 01:33 PM.
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Old 10-14-2008   #74
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Default Re: How bout some love for Richard Smith?

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Originally Posted by Polo View Post
I said "most defenses" not all. And please point out the "many" successful versions of the Tampa 2 that are not defined by the players...Meaning they continuosly have good defenses despite the players that play in them....Please point out all of these tampa 2 teams with this great success...
I think you're purposely ignoring my point. You define the scheme then go out and get good players that can execute it. If you haven't accumulated all the pieces, of course you're not going to be as successful as the teams that have done so.

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There are only a handful of co-ordinators in the leauge that constantly have good defenses despite their players...
Well, at least you acknowledge that it can be done. That's all I'm trying to say.


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When's the last time we saw a Texan defender execute a de-cleater on a RB or punish a WR after a catch. Oh noooo, we're much to polite.

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Don't see what that has to do with scheme..
It has to do with the attitude of the coaching staff and that gets transmitted to the players - in Tennessee's case, it comes from Fisher. In Tampa's case, it comes from Gruden. That attitude also comes from what type of mindset the coaching staff requires in the players that get drafted and/or signed by the GM. Does the coaching staff want workout warriors or real football players?


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Originally Posted by Polo View Post
Too bad the Cowboys defense isn't playing all that well, and the Colts defense sucks without Sanders....colts defense is also ranked just about where we are right now....

Swarm to the ball isn't scheme anyways...
No. But it is a result of good coaching.

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11 pro-bowlers ?

We've only had one..
Nice try Polo, but I know you're not dumb. You know what I meant. That's the extreme extrapolation of the "we need to wait until we get really good players, then we'll be good" philosophy.

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And by no means am I saying that Smith is a great defensive mind being held back by his talent. I'm just saying that I think he takes more heat than he deserves at times.
Well, maybe.... I'll say this; you made a point earlier that I have to concede. Smith cannot be held totally responsible for poor tackling. So yes, some of this heat needs to be applied directly to the players.
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Old 10-14-2008   #75
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Default Re: How bout some love for Richard Smith?

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan
It has to do with the attitude of the coaching staff and that gets transmitted to the players - in Tennessee's case, it comes from Fisher. In Tampa's case, it comes from Gruden. That attitude also comes from what type of mindset the coaching staff requires in the players that get drafted and/or signed by the GM. Does the coaching staff want workout warriors or real football players?
There are coaches that have coached excellent defenses that don't necessarily have the in-your-face style of coaching you allude to. Tony Dungy and Lovie Smith come to mind off-hand.
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Old 10-14-2008   #76
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Default Re: How bout some love for Richard Smith?

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What if we only give up 24 points to the Lions? Is that obvious improvement? I mean, we haven't held any team to 24 points yet, but still ... it's the Lions with Dan Orsafety.
That depends. What if one of those TDs were a big special teams play by the Lions? That would mean that our true defense would have actually only given up 17 points... and I would call that an obvious improvement.

I will call it as I see it. If our defense can keep the opposing offense out of pay dirt consistently, I will be happy. We have yet to see that this season.
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