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Old 10-12-2008   #21
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Default Re: This Game Only Continues the Mess

The single biggest concern I have is the stupid mistakes. Those are something I think we should all be very, very worried about because we're really not going to be looking at too many wins where we turn the ball over that many times and it seems like this year is just a continuation of last seasons turnover problems. That is I believe entirely on coaching. The Texans aren't taking care of the football and nothing that they've done to try and get the bleeding there stopped has registered to these guys.

To me that's the biggest problem out there right now.

Like most people I talk to I keep a "hypothetical win/loss column" in my head and through the course of the season I know what the Texans record is and what I think it should be. Right now I think the Texans are a coin toss and 5 bad minutes away from being 3-2. Right now I think we've left two wins on the field and that they have no one but themselves to blame for those losses.

If the Texans don't get that turnover thing worked out they're going to end the year with 4-6 wins at most. If they don't come back next week and beat the Lions then this win won't mean much of anything in the long run.
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Old 10-12-2008   #22
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Default Re: This Game Only Continues the Mess

I think turnovers are not the Coaches fault.

I think it is a confidence issue. Just finished listening to Andre and he said when he fumbled he thought about taking it into the endzone...so as far as fumbles are concerned it is a mental issue. Nothing Kubes can do in practice to improve on guys just holding onto the ball...I'm sure holding the football is a realyl basic thing, and that's all he can do is teach that and preach it.

As far as INT's go...well they come in many different fashions and that is where we need to improve.
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Old 10-12-2008   #23
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Default Re: This Game Only Continues the Mess

Turnovers are indeed a "mental thing" and I'm under the impression that the teams state of mind and readiness to play is primarily something that the coaches take responsibility for. The coaching staff works hard to have their players execute what they've been taught to do and to reinforce the fundamentals of the game.

Look at penalties for example. When a team has excessive numbers of penalties year in and year out that team is widely proclaimed to be "undisciplined" and the blame for this always falls on the coaches even though they are not out on the field. Their players behavior reflects the way they've been prepared.

The coaches preach taking care of the ball on a fairly constant basis I understand and if this were a 2-3 game stretch where the team just had a few bad breaks (deflected passes for instance) and a couple of guys made the mistake of not holding on to the rock that would be one thing. We've all seen teams and individual players go through periods of trouble hanging on to the ball. We've all seen QB's throw a wild game or two. This is something (interceptions) both our QB's do and it's gone on for two years now.

I think the Texans need to try and find an answer to this and I worry that they can't manage it with the people they have right now.
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Old 10-12-2008   #24
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Default Re: This Game Only Continues the Mess

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Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
I disagree. Kubiak called a good game.

Cowher even said so in the Post Game show.
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Old 10-12-2008   #25
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Default Re: This Game Only Continues the Mess

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
Turnovers are indeed a "mental thing" and I'm under the impression that the teams state of mind and readiness to play is primarily something that the coaches take responsibility for. The coaching staff works hard to have their players execute what they've been taught to do and to reinforce the fundamentals of the game.

Look at penalties for example. When a team has excessive numbers of penalties year in and year out that team is widely proclaimed to be "undisciplined" and the blame for this always falls on the coaches even though they are not out on the field. Their players behavior reflects the way they've been prepared.

The coaches preach taking care of the ball on a fairly constant basis I understand and if this were a 2-3 game stretch where the team just had a few bad breaks (deflected passes for instance) and a couple of guys made the mistake of not holding on to the rock that would be one thing. We've all seen teams and individual players go through periods of trouble hanging on to the ball. We've all seen QB's throw a wild game or two. This is something (interceptions) both our QB's do and it's gone on for two years now.

I think the Texans need to try and find an answer to this and I worry that they can't manage it with the people they have right now.
Yeah fair enough, the Coaches do need to get our guys mentally prepared to not cough the ball up. I think it has been better this season, Andre is better than that and Wilson...idk he just wanted to make a play (kinda like Sage).

I agree with the QB thing, coming into this game all of our Turnovers were by our QBs.
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Old 10-12-2008   #26
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Default Re: This Game Only Continues the Mess

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Originally Posted by TexansLucky13 View Post
After last week, I am stunned that you would be so keen on putting Sage back out there. Stunned.

Before last week, I would have never put Sage out there. Last week changed my view of the quarterback situation, and this week confirmed what I was thinking.

Sage fell apart at the end of last weeks game, I do not deny that one bit. However, this team moves more effectively and efficiently with Sage as opposed to Schaub.
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Old 10-12-2008   #27
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Default Re: This Game Only Continues the Mess

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Originally Posted by Texans Pride View Post
Before last week, I would have never put Sage out there. Last week changed my view of the quarterback situation, and this week confirmed what I was thinking.

Sage fell apart at the end of last weeks game, I do not deny that one bit. However, this team moves more effectively and efficiently with Sage as opposed to Schaub.
What about the Jaguars game? Schaub looked great in that one, and we lost it because of defense in OT.
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Old 10-12-2008   #28
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Default Re: This Game Only Continues the Mess

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Originally Posted by TexansLucky13 View Post
What about the Jaguars game? Schaub looked great in that one, and we lost it because of defense in OT.
I actually don't think he looked great, however I do think he looked good. He managed the game, didn't let it get away from him to much.

I think Sage outperformed Schaub in both of the games.
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Old 10-12-2008   #29
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Default Re: This Game Only Continues the Mess

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
... it seems like this year is just a continuation of last seasons turnover problems. That is I believe entirely on coaching.
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I think turnovers are not the Coaches fault.
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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
Turnovers are indeed a "mental thing" and I'm under the impression that the teams state of mind and readiness to play is primarily something that the coaches take responsibility for ...

The coaches preach taking care of the ball on a fairly constant basis I understand ...
The team does very well in the penalty department, which tells me that the coaches are definitely preparing the players mentally. So what specifically do you think the coaches should change? You admit that you think they're preaching on it constantly, and we know that players have had to live with the ball when they've had fumble problems. We've all heard Kubiak point to turnovers time and time again as the root of all our problems on offense, so you know he's aware of the problem and hates it as much as anyone. But the coaches aren't on the field dropping balls and throwing at opposing players. So what do you propose?

I'm not trying to be contentious at all, BTW. I really am stumped on how we can be so bad at taking care of the ball, and if people really think it's on the coaches, I'd like to know what should change.
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Old 10-13-2008   #30
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Default Re: This Game Only Continues the Mess

Here's an idea:

Every time Schaub chunks one into double coverage just to avoid getting hit, he takes a hit in practice anyway (unless AJ catches the dang thing).

Our turnover problems are all on the QBs. I'm not going to blame AJ for that just yet. It's really not a habit with him. As far as Eugene Wilson goes....pft, how many times is he going to see the ball anyway? We gotta get our QBs to use their brains. That's all it is.
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Old 10-13-2008   #31
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Default Re: This Game Only Continues the Mess

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Originally Posted by HJam72 View Post
Here's an idea:

Every time Schaub chunks one into double coverage just to avoid getting hit, he takes a hit in practice anyway (unless AJ catches the dang thing).

Our turnover problems are all on the QBs. I'm not going to blame AJ for that just yet. It's really not a habit with him. As far as Eugene Wilson goes....pft, how many times is he going to see the ball anyway? We gotta get our QBs to use their brains. That's all it is.
That would appear to be the case. Last year, OD had a bit of a fumble problem (4), but this year he's been nails. The backs haven't been putting it on the ground, either.
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Old 10-13-2008   #32
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Default Re: This Game Only Continues the Mess

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Before last week, I would have never put Sage out there. Last week changed my view of the quarterback situation, and this week confirmed what I was thinking.

Sage fell apart at the end of last weeks game, I do not deny that one bit. However, this team moves more effectively and efficiently with Sage as opposed to Schaub.
I agree that Sage runs the offense more efficiently, but he is prone to those sorts of meltdowns...the previous brain-farts had just been a little less obvious and didn't impact a game nearly as obviously as the Colts game revealed.

I dislike BOTH of our QBs, to tell you the truth. This has been an opinion that has been slowly forming over the past year for me. How good would we be if we had a really young, competent QB?

It's hard to even THINK about trying to identify and obtain a "project" QB who can sit and watch Schaub for the next 2 years. And, it's still a gamble at the end of the day. Bill Walsh said that if an NFL team's scout(s) get 2 pro-bowl QBs out of every 10 that they bring in...they are geniuses. It's just so hard to find a good one.
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Old 10-13-2008   #33
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Default Re: This Game Only Continues the Mess

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The team does very well in the penalty department, which tells me that the coaches are definitely preparing the players mentally. So what specifically do you think the coaches should change? You admit that you think they're preaching on it constantly, and we know that players have had to live with the ball when they've had fumble problems. We've all heard Kubiak point to turnovers time and time again as the root of all our problems on offense, so you know he's aware of the problem and hates it as much as anyone. But the coaches aren't on the field dropping balls and throwing at opposing players. So what do you propose?

I'm not trying to be contentious at all, BTW. I really am stumped on how we can be so bad at taking care of the ball, and if people really think it's on the coaches, I'd like to know what should change.

I get that you're just like all of us and looking for an answer here. We are all kind of grasping at ideas trying to figure this out. Looking at yesterday and taking some points into consideration that have been mentioned on this thread since I posted I see that we don't so much have a "turnover problem" as we have an interception problem. Yes, yesterday we had a couple of costly fumbles but AJ is usually very sure handed and I can accept that Wilson was just trying to make a play and hit the ground awkwardly. It happens. The best teams at protecting the ball still have some of those fluke hits that knock a few rocks free.

I guess that tells me that our guys are taking the "protect the ball" concept seriously. Our QB's (and this one is primarily on Matt) however are throwing picks in bunches. Matt's had one great game with three TD's and no picks but in the other three games he's been intercepted 7 times. That's scary. Sage threw one in there to make it 8 interceptions but this has been Matt's problem all year.

I was wrong there. If the rest of the team is more or less getting the message then the coaches are in all likelyhood doing their job in that department. When it's a handful of players (like specifically the QB's) then you have to think it's the player. It's on Matt.

I'm desperate for Schaub to work out because frankly I hate the idea that the Texans wasted a pair of 2's on a good backup when we already had a good backup in Rosencopter. I'm not interested in seeing another David Carr saga play out however. If he's just not the guy then I don't want to watch them spend three or four years trying to find a way to make him work out to justify the two picks and the money they spent.

This year I've felt that he's been wildly inaccurate at times, overly risky in his decisions on an almost regular basis, and I've felt like he's not shown the pocket presence that he seems to have when he's "on". He's a streaky kind of QB and that's alarming because in the NFL you can be average as long as you're consistently average. You'll enjoy a steady career backing up someone else. These guys who swing wildly from scary bad to very good don't seem to have much future.

I'd really hoped to see him settle down and show some signs of growth this year. It hasn't happened much though.

So looking at our problem of interceptions I see a QB who is doing things that are probably making Kubiak pull his hair out. We saw how long Gary put up with that from Carr and I'd assume that Schaub gets a longer leash because a) he's Gary's boy, and b) he's just starting his second year as a starter. Like a lot of people I'm willing to give him some more time and probably won't be ready to write this off as a bad investment until the end of the season. If he's still doing this at the end of the year or when the 2009 season takes off I'm going to be a pretty hostile fan. If he ends the year playing this way I expect the Texans to start preparing for the inevitable necessary replacement and I don't mean Sage. It will be time to start hunting a real franchise signal caller (again).

Hopefully this all kind of works itself out and we wrap the year up on the rise with Schaub playing better, Duane Brown protecting better, and everybody looking forward to doing some real damage in 2009.
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Old 10-13-2008   #34
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Default Re: This Game Only Continues the Mess

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The team does very well in the penalty department, which tells me that the coaches are definitely preparing the players mentally. So what specifically do you think the coaches should change? You admit that you think they're preaching on it constantly, and we know that players have had to live with the ball when they've had fumble problems. We've all heard Kubiak point to turnovers time and time again as the root of all our problems on offense, so you know he's aware of the problem and hates it as much as anyone. But the coaches aren't on the field dropping balls and throwing at opposing players. So what do you propose?

I'm not trying to be contentious at all, BTW. I really am stumped on how we can be so bad at taking care of the ball, and if people really think it's on the coaches, I'd like to know what should change.
IMHO, it's something that a team has to grow out of...

The coaches aren't on the field so ultimately something like holding on to the ball comes down on the player(s)...

I think that as they see the importance of the small things they will start to become more mindful of them...JMO...
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