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The Blazing Arrow "Rivalry Talk" Rival fans & lighthearted smack talk. Keep it light and leave the mean spirited stuff at home please.

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Old 09-15-2008   #141
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Default Re: VY's Mommy: "He's hurting inside and out."

I always wondered if the medicine was like sugar pills (for say), where it was an imaginary "crutch" to help someone get over their thought patterns

a few years ago I took effexor, but it made me restless so I quit taking it.and about a year ago I took paxil and actually talked to a therapist also this time , but what he recommended was some relaxation books and work on going out doing stuff... I remember after a few visits, he said," I don't see anything wrong with you, you seem normal and relaxed." but I have my moments.

Certain situations, my mind kicks into sensory overload and I analyze things to death
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Old 09-15-2008   #142
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Default Re: VY's Mommy: "He's hurting inside and out."

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I always wondered if the medicine was like sugar pills (for say), where it was an imaginary "crutch" to help someone get over their thought patterns
They do trials, and in order for a drug to be approved by the FDA, it has to prove significantly more effective than placebo. Sometimes these results are a little questionable, because with a large enough population, "significance" is sometimes not very significant. However, with the majority of the SSRIs, the results were pretty real.

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a few years ago I took effexor, but it made me restless so I quit taking it.and about a year ago I took paxil and actually talked to a therapist also this time , but what he recommended was some relaxation books and work on going out doing stuff... I remember after a few visits, he said," I don't see anything wrong with you, you seem normal and relaxed." but I have my moments.

Certain situations, my mind kicks into sensory overload and I analyze things to death
I am the same way. I appear normal to the majority of people, but I way overanalyze, and when I get into a paniced state of mind, I basically become incapacitated (if only for a short while). If I wasn't forced to speak in public so often, it would be much easier. But when you are giving a lecture to other scientists, or even worse, to undergrads, panicking and leaving is not usually a good thing
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Old 09-15-2008   #143
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Default Re: VY's Mommy: "He's hurting inside and out."

Sure many of those meds do "work" however they are not a cure. Anti-anxiety meds work by artificially surpressing the nervous system. Basically the physical and mental sensations/effects one feels when they have an anxiety disorder is caused by an overstimulated central nervous system. When the CNS gets "out of whack" all sorts of sensations (both physical and mental) start kicking in because it controls all feelings both mental and physical.

The CNS gets that way due to the habit of overstress, overworrying, negative thinking, etc. Once that happens more stress, worry, fear, and negative thinking is added because the person starts freaking out over how he is feeling due to CNS overstimulation. That becomes an endless vicious cycle because anxiety just keeps feeding itself.

The only real way to fix the problem is to first teach the person what is biologically going on in their body so they stop fearing and worrying about how they are feeling. Then you have to figure out what stressors or bad habits in life caused them to get that way in the first place and address those.

Meds will artificially supress the nervous system and one might stop the stress, worry, fear, negative thinking cycle just because he is feeling better due to the meds. However remove the meds and most eventually go back to square one and end up having to deal with this issue for a lifetime because they never addressed the cause. This is why so many people go on and off those meds and a large percentage never come off.

Another thing is a lot of those meds are dangerous. I have had 3 friends commit suicide on anti-depressant meds. When I was at my worst I had those thoughts and who knows if I wouldn't have been pushed over the edge if I was medicated with the wrong thing.

I am living proof and a walking billboard that you don't need medication to overcome this issue. Sure, it was a lot of work and as you mentioned most people want the "quick fix" however the truth is there is no "quick fix" with this problem. They are only putting a bandaid on a gaping wound.

If you want a good read about this disorder go to www.anxietycentre.com. They charge a small fee to join the site and get all the information however it's priceless information if you or someone you know is dealing with or ever dealt with this problem.
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Old 09-15-2008   #144
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Default Re: VY's Mommy: "He's hurting inside and out."

Because anxiety or depression is not a disease, you can't really "cure it" All you can do is treat the symptoms, and so yes, you are right in that the majority of people who go on anti-anxiety or anti-depression medicines do so for the forseeable future.

The problem with treating the root cause of anxiety or depression (fixing the underlying issues) is that its not always possible. Psycho-therapy, as you've described, is very time consuming, not to mention expensive. And receiving mental counseling is not 100% effective either. It takes a special kind of eprson, especially someone who is very receptive, to really benefit from that. And as there are many psychiatrists and doctors who just want to push medication, there are an equal number of poorly trained psychologists who want to force their strange textbook theories onto you.

The end result, if done correctly, is absolutely better in that it "cures" the problem rather than treats it, however I still think that the medications provide a much needed alternative for those unable or unwilling

As for the dangers of taking anti-depressents, this is something you are dead right on. Unfortunately, they can have differing effects on some people. Its often difficult to distinguish whether it was the drug or the person, but this is a well-known side effect that physicians should fully educate their patients and their friends and family to. As with all drugs, side effects are always a possibility. The decision between the benefits of the drug and the risks of the side effect should always be an important restriction
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Old 09-15-2008   #145
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Default Re: VY's Mommy: "He's hurting inside and out."

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Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
Because anxiety or depression is not a disease, you can't really "cure it" All you can do is treat the symptoms, and so yes, you are right in that the majority of people who go on anti-anxiety or anti-depression medicines do so for the forseeable future.

The problem with treating the root cause of anxiety or depression (fixing the underlying issues) is that its not always possible. Psycho-therapy, as you've described, is very time consuming, not to mention expensive. And receiving mental counseling is not 100% effective either. It takes a special kind of eprson, especially someone who is very receptive, to really benefit from that. And as there are many psychiatrists and doctors who just want to push medication, there are an equal number of poorly trained psychologists who want to force their strange textbook theories onto you.

The end result, if done correctly, is absolutely better in that it "cures" the problem rather than treats it, however I still think that the medications provide a much needed alternative for those unable or unwilling

As for the dangers of taking anti-depressents, this is something you are dead right on. Unfortunately, they can have differing effects on some people. Its often difficult to distinguish whether it was the drug or the person, but this is a well-known side effect that physicians should fully educate their patients and their friends and family to. As with all drugs, side effects are always a possibility. The decision between the benefits of the drug and the risks of the side effect should always be an important restriction
I agree with you in some ways here. You're right it's not a disease, it's a condition. However it's a condition that can be eliminated if cure is not the right word to use.

Unfortunately you are right that counseling is not always effective because most counselors have no clue how to accurately treat the problem (I learned that the hard way) and the other issue is a lot of people aren't willing to go through the process. I was more than willing because I was in living hell and didn't want medications regulating my feelings for the rest of my life. My mom has been living that life for as long as I can remember and it is not for me.

Counseling can be expensive however I was fortunate. I worked with those Anxiety Centre counselors out of Canada and it cost me around $50 a session (less than half of what most locally were charging). I worked with them roughly every week for the first few months and then backed it down to fewer sessions. The whole process was less than a year and now I have a lifetime of not having to deal with this ever again. Those guys saved my life, there is NO question about that and I will always promote them when this subject comes up.
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Old 09-15-2008   #146
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Default Re: VY's Mommy: "He's hurting inside and out."

Congratulations on getting through everything. Like I said earlier, I too was not content to remain on medication, and while I have everything "in check" Im definiately not in the place you have made it to.



One thing I've noticed over the past few months in discussing things with you is that you seem to have a distaste for the medical/pharmaceutical industries in the US.

I just wanted to point out that not all research is being done for profit. As a scientist myself, I can attest to the fact that many of us are in it for pure reasons. I work in academia, so the profit incentive isn't really there.

The reason pharmaceutical companies push their drugs so hard is because it is so expensive to get through the testing phases here in the US. They may make a bunch of money when a drug is successful, but they have to do that in order to comopensate for the other drugs that are still expensive to develop but never see the shelves. Its not a perfect system, but it does result in the US having the most advanced drug development with the most safety precautions in the world

The sad thing is, if a member of academia were to discover something really amazing. A potentially life saving cure to something like cancer, they would have to patent it just to get the money upfront to take it through testing. With the government constantly pulling the purse strings tighter when it comes to life sciences, and without donations from private institutions, money has to come from somewhere. And people don't lend money without expecting to get more back eventually
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Old 09-20-2008   #147
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Default Re: VY's Mommy: "He's hurting inside and out."

Has there been any word about VY..as far as maybe seeing therapists or anything for whatever it is beside interceptionitis or red zone anxiety?


on a serious note (And I do try to through some lame jokes in the rivalry section)

anything about him really seeing a doctor to get his head on right? any reports out of Nashville?
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