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Old 02-07-2013   #1
Wolf6151
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Default WR in the 1st round?

We've talked about OG in the 1st and CB in the 1st, now let's talk about WR in the 1st round. I've seen many mocks that have the Texans taking a WR in the 1st round but I've seen some mocks lately that have the top level WR's, Keenan Allen and Cordarrelle Patterson falling to the Texans at #27. Since this WR class seems to lack the elite level of talent but has lots of very good depth, it seems plausible that the best of the WR class could maybe fall to us. Do you take safe pick like Quinton Patton, Deandre Hopkins, or Robert Woods who will be good WR's with a high floor or do you take the risk on guys like Justin Hunter (ACL injury history), Cordarrelle Patterson (only 1yr. of D-1 playing experience) who seem to have a much higher ceiling? Who's your top 3 WR's at pick #27 for the Texans, and why? It's ok to have 2 lists, predicting what the Texans will do and the other if your the GM.
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Old 02-07-2013   #2
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Default Re: WR in the 1st round?

This class has more top end talents than last year when 4 were drafted in the first round (Blackmon, Flyod, Wright, and Jenkins) and 5 were drafted in the second round (Quick, Hill, Jeffrey, Broyles, and Randle.)

I think this year there's 11 or 12 that belong with that group even though (probably) not all of them will be drafted in the first two rounds due to the run on receivers last year.
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Old 02-07-2013   #3
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Default Re: WR in the 1st round?

Glad to see I'm not the only one up at 1am. I'm hoping that run on WR's last year will help us this year, not sure but I can always wish. So who you got? Do you play it safe or go for the possible homerun?
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Old 02-07-2013   #4
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Default Re: WR in the 1st round?

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Originally Posted by Wolf6151 View Post
Glad to see I'm not the only one up at 1am. I'm hoping that run on WR's last year will help us this year, not sure but I can always wish. So who you got? Do you play it safe or go for the possible homerun?
Who do you consider safe and who'd be a home run? I'm thinking BPA in rd 1 then the best available OT and WR in rds 2-3 (if one of those positions wasn't drafted in rd1)

I look at Miami and there's a part of me that hopes they grab a replacement for Jake Long in rd 1 and a top level WR is available at our pick allowing us to trade back for a 2nd and a 3rd or so
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Old 02-07-2013   #5
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Default Re: WR in the 1st round?

I think guys like Justin Hunter, and Cordarrelle Patterson are your risky players that could be a homerun due to their speed, size, athleticism, and deep threat potential but they might not fit the Texans scheme since we don't seem to throw deep very often and Schaub doesn't seem to have the arm for it. I think guys like Quinton Patton, Robert Woods, and Deandre Hopkins are a safer pick with a higher floor but they're not as explosive and don't have the ceiling Patterson and Hunter have. For our short to mid depth routes I think Deandre Hopkins would be our type of WR provided Keenan Allen isn't available, but I've seen some mocks lately that have the Texans picking Allen at #27.
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Old 02-07-2013   #6
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Default Re: WR in the 1st round?

Texans
1. Williams
2. Patton
3. Hopkins

Texans always go the safe route and these are the safest WR's in this draft.

Steel B's
1.Rodgers
2.Williams
3.Dobson

After Patterson and Allen these guys have the highest upside and I'm big on speed. Route running can be taught. I also like Hunter but his ACL scares me away from top 3.
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Old 02-09-2013   #7
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Default

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Texans always go the safe route and these are the safest WR's in this draft.
???

Okoye, Mario & Duane were not the safe route.

You can argue Cushing, KJ, and Watt were safe picks... but they all ended up being the correct pick.

Jury is still out on Mercilus.
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Old 02-10-2013   #8
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Default Re: WR in the 1st round?

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Originally Posted by dream_team View Post
???

Okoye, Mario & Duane were not the safe route.

You can argue Cushing, KJ, and Watt were safe picks... but they all ended up being the correct pick.

Jury is still out on Mercilus.
I dont believe in drafting this way, but before Wade this was the Texans MO on drafting defensive players in the 1st rd.

Okoye-highest rated player at position of need
Mario- ditto, plus he came cheaper than Bush/VY
Cushing-Ditto
KJ- Ditto
Watt- Wade pick
Mercilus-Wade pick

Offense
Brown- HOF Alex Gibbs handpicked guy, although many disagreed with the pick at the time.
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Old 02-10-2013   #9
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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
I dont believe in drafting this way, but before Wade this was the Texans MO on drafting defensive players in the 1st rd.

Okoye-highest rated player at position of need
Mario- ditto, plus he came cheaper than Bush/VY
Cushing-Ditto
KJ- Ditto
Watt- Wade pick
Mercilus-Wade pick

Offense
Brown- HOF Alex Gibbs handpicked guy, although many disagreed with the pick at the time.
So they made one bad pick out of 7? Nice! They need to keep it up!
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Old 02-10-2013   #10
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Default Re: WR in the 1st round?

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Originally Posted by dream_team View Post
So they made one bad pick out of 7? Nice! They need to keep it up!
Depends on what you think of the KJ/MW picks. They were Good not great picks. IMHO There is more than 1 rd in the draft though and Rick has been avg so far. There have only been 2 homerun picks in Texans History, Watt and AJ.

Rick has hit on a few draft picks, but nothing to brag about. Look at last yrs draft, nice draft, no difference makers. Brooks is the best bet to become an all pro player. There rest are nice players but will probably be avg to slightly above avg players.

Since Rick has been here he has drafted a few above avg players and his claim to fame signing Foster as a FA.

Lets look at Ricks drafting history,

Offense

Great player drafted D. Brown, Avg player (High grade) Casey, everybody else is either a below avg starter or was here before Rick became GM, or signed in FA.

Defense, Ricks specialty

Great pick Cushing, Watt (Wades pick but I will give Rick this one.)

Avg players (Barwin/Reed/KJ (Depends on your opinion) Quin is slightly above avg. Everybody else was either signed in FA and other than JoJo/Myers and to a lesser extent Manning have been avg to below avg players as FA signings. The only other drat picks Rick has made have been less than inspiring Newton/Jones/Graham on offense hope to become avg. There's a good chance Poseys done and he was avg at best this yr but had potential to be slightly above avg.

So this is why the Texans are an avg to slightly above avg team with many holes that benefits from playing in a terrible division. The problem with this is the Colts are gaining on them fast. They have their QB of the future, they're a good young team that is only going to get better and they are 44 mil under the cap this yr. Tell me more about the Texans cap situation under Ricks watch? The Texans may be able to hold off the Colts one more yr.

I've got a feeling this team has peeked. They need to have a great draft in the lower rds this yr to be able to keep up with what the Colts are doing. Grigson is playing to win and win big.

Rick has been an avg GM and the Texans need to pick it up on draft days. Adding 2-3 avg starters a yr isn't going to cut it if they want to stay a top the division. Rick needs to draft one difference maker a yr and 2-3 above avg starters a yr. Can he do it? Time will tell. But I can certainly see how diehard fans such as She Texan are frustrated with Rick and dont like the direction the franchise appears to be headed.
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Old 02-10-2013   #11
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Default Re: WR in the 1st round?

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Depends on what you think of the KJ/MW picks. They were Good not great picks. IMHO There is more than 1 rd in the draft though and Rick has been avg so far. There have only been 2 homerun picks in Texans History, Watt and AJ.

Rick has hit on a few draft picks, but nothing to brag about. Look at last yrs draft, nice draft, no difference makers. Brooks is the best bet to become an all pro player. There rest are nice players but will probably be avg to slightly above avg players.

Since Rick has been here he has drafted a few above avg players and his claim to fame signing Foster as a FA.

Lets look at Ricks drafting history,

Offense

Great player drafted D. Brown, Avg player (High grade) Casey, everybody else is either a below avg starter or was here before Rick became GM, or signed in FA.

Defense, Ricks specialty

Great pick Cushing, Watt (Wades pick but I will give Rick this one.)

Avg players (Barwin/Reed/KJ (Depends on your opinion) Quin is slightly above avg. Everybody else was either signed in FA and other than JoJo/Myers and to a lesser extent Manning have been avg to below avg players as FA signings. The only other drat picks Rick has made have been less than inspiring Newton/Jones/Graham on offense hope to become avg. There's a good chance Poseys done and he was avg at best this yr but had potential to be slightly above avg.

So this is why the Texans are an avg to slightly above avg team with many holes that benefits from playing in a terrible division. The problem with this is the Colts are gaining on them fast. They have their QB of the future, they're a good young team that is only going to get better and they are 44 mil under the cap this yr. Tell me more about the Texans cap situation under Ricks watch? The Texans may be able to hold off the Colts one more yr.

I've got a feeling this team has peeked. They need to have a great draft in the lower rds this yr to be able to keep up with what the Colts are doing. Grigson is playing to win and win big.

Rick has been an avg GM and the Texans need to pick it up on draft days. Adding 2-3 avg starters a yr isn't going to cut it if they want to stay a top the division. Rick needs to draft one difference maker a yr and 2-3 above avg starters a yr. Can he do it? Time will tell. But I can certainly see how diehard fans such as She Texan are frustrated with Rick and dont like the direction the franchise appears to be headed.
SteelB, I think Cushing was a great pick as well.
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Old 02-10-2013   #12
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Default Re: WR in the 1st round?

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SteelB, I think Cushing was a great pick as well.
Yes he was, Sorry I left him out.

Do you think my post was pretty accurate?
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Old 02-10-2013   #13
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Default Re: WR in the 1st round?

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Yes he was, Sorry I left him out.

Do you think my post was pretty accurate?
Your post is very accurate based on your opinion.
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Old 02-10-2013   #14
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Default Re: WR in the 1st round?

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Yes he was, Sorry I left him out.

Do you think my post was pretty accurate?
You are right about drafting a great player and above average players on respective draft year and it is more crucial than ever for us to draft the above mentioned players(multiple number of great to above average per draft year) to continue to be atop of AFC South, consistent playoff team and SB contender.

In comparison with other NFL teams, are we successful in drafting players since Rick took over as GM? I know it will be very difficult to evaluate since each team in its own unique situation when new GM takes over the team like there are teams in need to fill many holes and some are lesser holes to fill. So teams with many holes to fill has more chance for rooks to stick with the team but, that doesn't mean you drafted many good players in that particular draft year. It just means you only had a few talented players to begin with and needed to replace players on roster due to age,budget and, etc. situation. Also, how this GM does in FA, UDFA, Trade and coaches hired to this equation. It will be very hard to evaluate but I just wonder how Rick is doing in overall performance as GM.

2007
Rd 1 Amobi Okoye
3 Jacoby Jones
4 Fred Bennett
5 Brandon Harrison
5 Brandon Frye
6 Kasey Studdard
7 Zac Diles

2008
Rd 1 Duane Brown
3 Antwaun Molden
3 Steve Slaton
4 Xavier Adibi
5 Frank Okam
6 Dominique Barber
7 Alex Brink

2009
Rd 1 Brian Cushing
2 Connor Barwin
3 Antoine Caldwell
4 Glover Quin
4 Anthony Hill
5 James Casey
6 Brice McCain
7 Troy Nolan

2010
Rd 1 Kareem Jackson
2 Ben Tate
3 Earl Mitchell
4 Daryl Sharpton
4 Farrett Graham
5 Sherrick McManis
6 Shelley Smith
6 Trindon Holliday
7 Drin Dickerson

2011
Rd 1 J.J. Watt
2 Brooks Reed
2 Brandon Harris
4 Rashad Carmichael
5 Shiloh Keo
5 T.J. Yates
7 Derek Newton
7 Cheta Ozougwu

2012
Rd 1 Whitney Mercilus
3 Devier Posey
3 Brandon Brooks
4 Ben Jones
4 Keshawn Martin
4 Jared Crick
5 Randy Bullock
6 Nick Mondek

Key FA and UDFA signing in the past;
Antonio Smith, J Jo, Manning, Foster, Leach
Cody Started for us so there and enjoying watching ON THE NOSE and some kickers and punters.

Last edited by SAMURAITEXAN; 02-11-2013 at 12:07 AM.
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Old 02-10-2013   #15
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Default Re: WR in the 1st round?

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Rick has hit on a few draft picks, but nothing to brag about. Look at last yrs draft, nice draft, no difference makers. Brooks is the best bet to become an all pro player. There rest are nice players but will probably be avg to slightly above avg players.
I feel good about Posey, Jones, & Brooks, but haven't given up on Whitney, Crick, or Martin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
The problem with this is the Colts are gaining on them fast. They have their QB of the future, they're a good young team that is only going to get better and they are 44 mil under the cap this yr. Tell me more about the Texans cap situation under Ricks watch? The Texans may be able to hold off the Colts one more yr.

I've got a feeling this team has peeked. They need to have a great draft in the lower rds this yr to be able to keep up with what the Colts are doing. Grigson is playing to win and win big.

Rick has been an avg GM and the Texans need to pick it up on draft days. Adding 2-3 avg starters a yr isn't going to cut it if they want to stay a top the division. Rick needs to draft one difference maker a yr and 2-3 above avg starters a yr. Can he do it? Time will tell. But I can certainly see how diehard fans such as She Texan are frustrated with Rick and dont like the direction the franchise appears to be headed.
First, I think there is a lot more to building a championship team than the draft. For instance, the Ravens FA acquisitions were as important to their most recent Super Bowl as any of their draft picks. Bolden, Leach, & Pollard are as much Baltimore Ravens as any of their draft picks....... & then there's Jacoby.

I don't think much of Rick Smith myself, but I'd love to hear you break down how the Colts are gaining on us after 1 season. They've got Luck..... what else?
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Old 02-10-2013   #16
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Default Re: WR in the 1st round?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I feel good about Posey, Jones, & Brooks, but haven't given up on Whitney, Crick, or Martin.


First, I think there is a lot more to building a championship team than the draft. For instance, the Ravens FA acquisitions were as important to their most recent Super Bowl as any of their draft picks. Bolden, Leach, & Pollard are as much Baltimore Ravens as any of their draft picks....... & then there's Jacoby.

I don't think much of Rick Smith myself, but I'd love to hear you break down how the Colts are gaining on us after 1 season. They've got Luck..... what else?
How can you feel good about Posey? He was a below avg WR who was getting better and may have become a starting WR. Now he has the worst injury possible for a WR and if he makes it back he probably wont be the WR that he was, much less what he could've been. I haven't given up on Whitney he has the ability to be an above avg starter and we should see improvement this yr. Crick's ceiling is a serviceable starter but not a difference maker. (Slightly better than Bulman) Martin is a dime a dozen 5th WR on most teams.

The Colts are gaining on us because Luck is light yrs ahead of Schaub and is only going to get better. According to Doc (Who's opinion I trust) This yr is as good as it's going to get for Schaub and this yr wasn't even good enough to sweep Indy. (I know you disagree) They already have all of their skill players in place (I know Wayne is getting older but in 1 yr they were able to add 2 young playmaking WR's, 2 young TE's of the future and a solid in all phases RB in Ballard.) They also have their 2 young OT's. Grigson did this all in one yr. It makes me think if Grigson keeps this up they will pass the Texans up in 2 yrs. As a rookie GM Grigson is already light yrs ahead of Rick.

The Colts were ready to make traumatic changes (Firing one of the best GM's in the NFL Polian and bring in a young gun like Grigson to set a new tone for their org. for yrs to come.) Meanwhile the Texans are avoiding traumatic change at all cost. (Do you think BoB would've fired Polian?)

It goes alot deeper than just this, it goes from changing coaching staffs and scouting staffs etc... I mean why does Coach Joe still have a job? The Colts just have a different mentality than the Texans do. The one thing that may be the Texans saving grace for a couple of yrs is I believe losing Arians will set the Colts program back a couple of yrs.
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Old 02-10-2013   #17
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Default Re: WR in the 1st round?

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
How can you feel good about Posey? He was a below avg WR who was getting better and may have become a starting WR. Now he has the worst injury possible for a WR and if he makes it back he probably wont be the WR that he was, much less what he could've been.
I was ready to give up on him for the same reasons you mentioned, but then someone reminded me that Demaryius Thomas suffered the same injury in February, but was running routes in OTAs. He had a fairly decent 2011, but exploded in 2012. Right now, I'm putting Posey on that track. I think Posey is first round talent that we got a deal on. I'm projecting him as our #2WR, #3 at worst.

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
I haven't given up on Whitney he has the ability to be an above avg starter and we should see improvement this yr. Crick's ceiling is a serviceable starter but not a difference maker. (Slightly better than Bulman) Martin is a dime a dozen 5th WR on most teams.
I'm hoping Crick can eventually be Antonio's replacement. I don't know if you think Antonio is a difference maker, but I think he's a very important cog in our wheel. I don't expect Crick to ever play to Watt's level, but he'll have to command attention opposite the big guy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
The Colts are gaining on us because Luck is light yrs ahead of Schaub and is only going to get better. According to Doc (Who's opinion I trust) This yr is as good as it's going to get for Schaub and this yr wasn't even good enough to sweep Indy. (I know you disagree) They already have all of their skill players in place (I know Wayne is getting older but in 1 yr they were able to add 2 young playmaking WR's, 2 young TE's of the future and a solid in all phases RB in Ballard.) They also have their 2 young OT's. Grigson did this all in one yr. It makes me think if Grigson keeps this up they will pass the Texans up in 2 yrs. As a rookie GM Grigson is already light yrs ahead of Rick.
The future for the Colts is bright, I do not disagree. But I'm going to wait till next year to see how they repeat. There's more to winning than gathering talent. We know this more than most.

You kept saying "young" in your response. That's their greatest strength, it's also the biggest issue they will have to overcome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
The Colts were ready to make traumatic changes (Firing one of the best GM's in the NFL Polian and bring in a young gun like Grigson to set a new tone for their org. for yrs to come.) Meanwhile the Texans are avoiding traumatic change at all cost. (Do you think BoB would've fired Polian?)

It goes alot deeper than just this, it goes from changing coaching staffs and scouting staffs etc... I mean why does Coach Joe still have a job? The Colts just have a different mentality than the Texans do. The one thing that may be the Texans saving grace for a couple of yrs is I believe losing Arians will set the Colts program back a couple of yrs.
You make solid points. I don't want to take anything away from them & I'm definitely not trying to change your mind about anything. I was generally curious to your reasoning. However, this sounds too much like, "everybody else does everything right, the Texans do everything wrong." thinking to me. & that's fine.

But there are a hundred ways to skin a cat. The Texans aren't following my game plan & neither are the Colts. There were 10 NFL headcoaching changes in 2006. Today, only three of those coaches haven't been fired. They are also the most successful of those 10 franchises. Two of the 3 have won Super Bowls since then & the third was considered the favorite for much of the 2012 season (I know, not a big accomplishment, but it's what we've got). The other teams are still trying to build a foundation.

As far as Coach Joe goes, I do not necessarily believe firing a guy is the only way to hold him accountable. 6 years ago we thought Coach Joe was among the best STs coaches in the league. What's changed? Has the game passed him by? Has he lost interest? Were there extenuating circumstances that we didn't know about in these people's lives? Was he dealing with a divorce? Got a troubled kid? Was there a death in the family? Did he fall off the Wagon?

I don't know why they didn't fire Coach Joe. I'm not going to judge the decision until I see next season's product.
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