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Old 01-30-2013   #1
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Default WR catch rate: Texans

This article lists stats but chart will not copy/paste; must go to link to see or click on second link and pull out individual WR

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...houston-texans


As it turned out, they should have been more worried about how to replace Jacoby Jones.

Garrett Graham stepped in at tight end and managed to replicate Dreessen quite well. He wasn't as explosive on a per-catch basis, but his catch rate was virtually identical.

Where the Texans suffered was in replacing Jones.

(Table of stats)


Jones was released after the 2012 draft in what proved to be a colossal mistake. Not only did he have a standout season on special teams, making the Pro Bowl for the AFC, but the Texans had no way to replace his modest production in the passing game.

Full NFL results here http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr
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Old 01-30-2013   #2
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Default Re: WR catch rate: Texans

This should help

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Old 01-30-2013   #3
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Default Re: WR catch rate: Texans

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Originally Posted by ckhouston View Post
Where was that "time to get rid of Walter" thread again?

Interesting but Walter's stats don't look that bad to me in themselves. More concerned about the Posey, Jean and Martin failure to launch. That is totally ridiculous. Posey caught 43% & Martin 36%. What bothers me is how many dink passes we see that are successfull but do not move ball much. If a pass does not get you 5 yards or more, better to run. There are some exceptions of course but for most part.
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Old 01-30-2013   #4
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Default Re: WR catch rate: Texans

When the owner comes out and says we need more speed at receiver then that's a pretty clear sign changes will be made. I don't mind Walter coming back, but not as a second option at Wideout. If the team can find a way to make it work financially then I have no problem with him coming back as our 3rd or 4th receiver.
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Old 01-30-2013   #5
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Default Re: WR catch rate: Texans

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Originally Posted by ckhouston View Post
Combine % and YPR and Walter is our second best receiver. I don't think he is going anywhere.
Give me a break. Walter is NOT a #2wr by any stretch of the imagination & I'm glad McNair finally went on the record saying a wr is needed. Walter's stats are garbage compared to most #2 wr's & even some #3's. Save the "walter is great or seviceable" crap for the bandwagon & fairweather fans who don't know any better. Walters saving grace as always been his "sure" hands & his overrated run blocking. Well, his hands are not so sure any longer as he barely beat a TE who almost had twice as many targets & was outperformed by Andre who nearly tripled his targets. I guess being able to get some seperation would increase his target numbers but we all know that's a lost cause.

41 receptions for a little over 500yrds & 2 TD's over 16 games is not what is expected from any #2 wr & at best can be described as mediocre. Having said that, for a guy who constantly rants & raves about poor QB play it seems to be a bit hypocritical to praise a poor excuse for a #2 wr. Pitiful play is pitiful play regardless of the position or the players name imo.
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Old 01-31-2013   #6
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Default Re: WR catch rate: Texans

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Didn't say he was a #2, just that he was the Texans second best.

That leads me to believe that even if we could pick up a legitimate #2, he is still valuable.
It's just that each fan has a different "definition" of a #2 receiver.

Then, we look back and recall at the time when Kubiak called Walter and Jacoby 2a and 2b; he was really honest there. That is what he looks for in his system: Two guys to complement AJ: One who can stretch the field, and aother to do all the yeoman's work.
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Old 01-31-2013   #7
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Default Re: WR catch rate: Texans

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
It's just that each fan has a different "definition" of a #2 receiver.

Then, we look back and recall at the time when Kubiak called Walter and Jacoby 2a and 2b; he was really honest there. That is what he looks for in his system: Two guys to complement AJ: One who can stretch the field, and aother to do all the yeoman's work.
I don't know about that. People thought Kubiak & Shanahan "wanted" a RBbC thing in the backfield, but both have shown that when they get a guy who can run, break tackles, catch, & block, they have no problem relying on him as a "feature" back.

Walter is our #2, he & Jacoby were 2a & 2b...... because we didn't have a #2.

I don't think that is what Kubiak wants, I think that's just what he's been able to get with the priority he's been able to put on WR considering all the other issues we've had on the team.

I agree with ckhouston & Rey. Walter isn't worthless, I have no problem if he ended up being the #3 WR on this team.... which is what he is.

I also have no problem with him being the #2 if no one can beat him out. That at least shows us that we don't hand out starting positions just because & they need to be earned.

But I think we need to step up the competition by throwing some elite talent at the position. A 1st or 2nd round WR in the upcoming draft, or a pseudo elite FA.
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Old 01-30-2013   #8
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Default Re: WR catch rate: Texans

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Originally Posted by ckhouston View Post
Combine % and YPR and Walter is our second best receiver. I don't think he is going anywhere.
not to turn this into another walter thread, but i dont completely trust his numbers because it seems we have to scheme to get him open. great hands, and he's money in traffic, but he cant get any separation and is invisible on most plays.
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Old 01-30-2013   #9
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Default Re: WR catch rate: Texans

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Originally Posted by ckhouston View Post
Combine % and YPR and Walter is our second best receiver. I don't think he is going anywhere.
and that is why Kubiak is so loyal to him, that + his blocking that many seemingly want to disregard. Posey was blocking better towards end of season but that was about all.
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Old 01-30-2013   #10
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Default Re: WR catch rate: Texans

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
and that is why Kubiak is so loyal to him, that + his blocking that many seemingly want to disregard. Posey was blocking better towards end of season but that was about all.
Yeah, and Kubiaks judgment on whom he is loyal to has always been spot on & never called into question. Kubiaks loyality is one of his worst attributes that is often criticized for being a day late & dollar short on making appropriate personnel moves. Marciano, Frank Bush, Kris Brown anyone....

It doesn't matter how deep & desperate some of y'all dig to try & justify Walter, in the end he is still not a legit #2 wr & almost all outside of Houston not drinking the Battle Koolaid know it. Its a shame how foolish some of us act by actually trying to convince ourselves & others into believing that some how averaging 2.6 catches for 32.4 yards & .13 TD's per game is actually worthy of being a starter in the NFL. The silliness is endless.

If any fan from any other team mentioned those numbers to us & then followed it w/ "that's our great #2 wr", he would be laughed at like no other & called a fool by many. Now we know how some Texan fans look to others w/ this Walter gibberish. The blocking is 100% overrated because I have yet to hear that ANY of the wr's have issues run blocking nor is it a glaring issue that all notice. Thus they all seem adequate at it, but the desperation kicks in w/ the Walter lovers & something, no matter how little & frivolous it is, needs to be found to justify the good ol' Kevin Walter. Geez....
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Old 01-30-2013   #11
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Default Re: WR catch rate: Texans

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Originally Posted by tru80texan View Post
Yeah, and Kubiaks judgment on whom he is loyal to has always been spot on & never called into question. Kubiaks loyality is one of his worst attributes that is often criticized for being a day late & dollar short on making appropriate personnel moves. Marciano, Frank Bush, Kris Brown anyone....

It doesn't matter how deep & desperate some of y'all dig to try & justify Walter, in the end he is still not a legit #2 wr & almost all outside of Houston not drinking the Battle Koolaid know it. Its a shame how foolish some of us act by actually trying to convince ourselves & others into believing that some how averaging 2.6 catches for 32.4 yards & .13 TD's per game is actually worthy of being a starter in the NFL. The silliness is endless.

If any fan from any other team mentioned those numbers to us & then followed it w/ "that's our great #2 wr", he would be laughed at like no other & called a fool by many. Now we know how some Texan fans look to others w/ this Walter gibberish. The blocking is 100% overrated because I have yet to hear that ANY of the wr's have issues run blocking nor is it a glaring issue that all notice. Thus they all seem adequate at it, but the desperation kicks in w/ the Walter lovers & something, no matter how little & frivolous it is, needs to be found to justify the good ol' Kevin Walter. Geez....
Don't mistakenly think I am supporting Walter BUT if you identify a problem, come with a solution or at least say you don't have one. I see few in draft who should be avail that will supplant Walter immediately. Posey was a failure as has been Jean.

You may consider blocking being over rated but is well known to be a requirement of Kubiak's to get on the field.

Also, just as a note about my thinking, I have constantly mocked WR in first round for 2013.

Ridicule Gary's loyalty but it ranks behind McNair's. Not saying it is not an issue but remains something to deal with.
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Old 01-31-2013   #12
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Default Re: WR catch rate: Texans

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
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Originally Posted by ckhouston View Post
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Interesting but Walter's stats don't look that bad to me in themselves. More concerned about the Posey, Jean and Martin failure to launch. That is totally ridiculous. Posey caught 43% & Martin 36%. What bothers me is how many dink passes we see that are successfull but do not move ball much. If a pass does not get you 5 yards or more, better to run. There are some exceptions of course but for most part.
Combine % and YPR and Walter is our second best receiver. I don't think he is going anywhere.
and that is why Kubiak is so loyal to him, that + his blocking that many seemingly want to disregard. Posey was blocking better towards end of season but that was about all.

Andre Johnson, Owen Daniels, & Kevin Walter accounted for 215 catches, 2,832 yards, & 12 TDs

Roddy White, Tony Gonzales, and Julio Jones accounted for 264 catches, 3,479 yards, & 25 TDs

Comparing Walter to our receivers doesn't really put KDub's production in perspective to real #2 WR production.
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Old 01-31-2013   #13
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Default Re: WR catch rate: Texans

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Originally Posted by Fiddler View Post
Andre Johnson, Owen Daniels, & Kevin Walter accounted for 215 catches, 2,832 yards, & 12 TDs

Roddy White, Tony Gonzales, and Julio Jones accounted for 264 catches, 3,479 yards, & 25 TDs

Comparing Walter to our receivers doesn't really put KDub's production in perspective to real #2 WR production.
Might need to pick a different team for a reasonable comparison.

Foster had more yards rushing this year than the entire Falcons team.

The Texans rushed over 500 times, almost 125 more times than Atlanta. So OF COURSE their top 3 receivers are going to have more catches, because they passed the ball more.

That being said, here are a few interesting TEAM stats between the two:

1. The average yard per catch for the Big Three on BOTH teams was 13.2
2. The aveage yard per catch for all other players was higher for the Texans by a full yard
3. The Falcons had 65% of their attempts go to their Big Three, while the Texans only had 60%
4. The Falcons had 75% of their total receiving yards gained by their Big Three, while the Texans had 70%

What does all that mean? That the Texans did a better job of utilizing their entire receiving, tight end and running back corps in their passing game.

Now let's talk about the Patriots, who kicked Texan ass twice this season. Their Big Three were targeted at the same rate at the Texans Big Three, had fewer yards per catch and fewer of their total team receiving yards.

And yet, all of their other receivers averaged almost the same yards per catch as their Big Three. In other words, they killed everyone with a multitude of smaller weapons.

And in all honesty, if you are asking me to choose between a Big Three like Atlanta or the Patriot Receiver by Committee, I'll take the proven success of New England.
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Old 01-30-2013   #14
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Default Re: WR catch rate: Texans

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Where was that "time to get rid of Walter" thread again?

I dont want to see him gone .... I just want to see him pushed down the depth chart.

We all know the bigger issue is the QB .... he just cant make some throws or fit balls into tight windows and the offense is limited because of it. That probably has more to do with people thinking the playcalling is predictable than anything else. (But its funny how the Pats ran those same plays against the Texansand it was a brilliant game plan).
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Old 02-02-2013   #15
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Default Re: WR catch rate: Texans

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This should help


I was talking to a buddy today actually about this. He doesn't want a young wr because of the break in time,but I responded with simple numbers. Owen daniels had more targets than torrey smith and josh gordon, yet those guys produced more yards by far. I mean, if you take torrey smith the last 2 yrs, he's averaging 100 targets,50 recs, 800 yds and 8tds. Josh gordon had 96 tagets,50 catches and 800 yds playing with a 0 opposite of him and a rookie qb. I don't see why the texans couldn't draft a wr to play opposite andre who couldn't get 16-18 ypc with 50 recs and 800 yds or so. This isn't new, but maybe schaub needs to stop checking down to daniels and start pressing the ball to guys who can actually do more than catch and fall down.
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Old 02-02-2013   #16
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Default Re: WR catch rate: Texans

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
I was talking to a buddy today actually about this. He doesn't want a young wr because of the break in time,but I responded with simple numbers. Owen daniels had more targets than torrey smith and josh gordon, yet those guys produced more yards by far. I mean, if you take torrey smith the last 2 yrs, he's averaging 100 targets,50 recs, 800 yds and 8tds. Josh gordon had 96 tagets,50 catches and 800 yds playing with a 0 opposite of him and a rookie qb. I don't see why the texans couldn't draft a wr to play opposite andre who couldn't get 16-18 ypc with 50 recs and 800 yds or so. This isn't new, but maybe schaub needs to stop checking down to daniels and start pressing the ball to guys who can actually do more than catch and fall down.
Schaub simply cant make those throws into tight windows .... he lacks the zip to fit them in. That's why we see so many checkdowns ..... I'd rather he check them down that turn the ball over ...
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Old 02-02-2013   #17
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Default Re: WR catch rate: Texans

There are things that don't show up on the stats sheet.
Gordon, for example, had quite a few long catches where the secondary simply bombed (similar to how Demps allowed a couple of plays.)

In the first half of the Dolphins game alone, Walter could have had 2 TDs.
On the first one, Schaub had a guy in his grill and threw the ball away.
On the second one, he drew a defensive PI to give the Texans first and goal at the 2, after which Foster scored on a TD run.

But no, people don't need to watch the game; all they have to do is to pull up some fantasy football numbers.

I have the screenshots and will either post them or up a link to photobucket sometimes today.
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Old 02-02-2013   #18
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Default Re: WR catch rate: Texans

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I was talking to a buddy today actually about this. He doesn't want a young wr because of the break in time,but I responded with simple numbers. Owen daniels had more targets than torrey smith and josh gordon, yet those guys produced more yards by far. I mean, if you take torrey smith the last 2 yrs, he's averaging 100 targets,50 recs, 800 yds and 8tds. Josh gordon had 96 tagets,50 catches and 800 yds playing with a 0 opposite of him and a rookie qb. I don't see why the texans couldn't draft a wr to play opposite andre who couldn't get 16-18 ypc with 50 recs and 800 yds or so.
With a true first round talent (whether we get him in the second or whatever) I would think it would be possible. But, with wins being such a premium, I doubt Kubiak will have the foresight to look to the future & get the youngun on the field early. If we're lucky & we can find a guy who works like Martin, maybe he can earn early playing time, then it's up to him to do better with that opportunity than LeStar, Martin, & Posey has.

But if we find ourselves too close to .500, we won't see any new faces that aren't necessary due to injury. Andre, Walter, OD, & Graham are going to have to find a way to win with Schaub.
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This isn't new, but maybe schaub needs to stop checking down to daniels and start pressing the ball to guys who can actually do more than catch and fall down.
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Schaub simply cant make those throws into tight windows .... he lacks the zip to fit them in. That's why we see so many checkdowns ..... I'd rather he check them down that turn the ball over ...
Schaub's got some limitations. Refusal to throw it deep isn't one of them. We've consistently been among the more explosive teams in the league for at least the last 5 years.

And now his arm "simply" isn't strong enough to make throws he's regularly made over the last 6 years.... uh-huh..

Maybe some of you are afraid to be caught on the wrong side of another QB thing, like David Carr. Maybe some of you are trying so hard to convince yourselves that Schaub is as bad as Carr to give you some sliver of hope that we'll replace him. I don't know what it is but as a long time critic of Matt Schaub I know what his issues are & what they aren't, & I've seen what he's been able to do in spite of those limitations.

As a longtime NFL fan, who respects both of your NFL opinions, I fear that you've been hypnotized by all that is RG3, or Kaepernick, or Wilson. I want one too, but I'm not willing to give up on a good NFL QB for what has failed to generate any long-term success in the NFL. The new Vick, that's all I'm seeing so far.

Maybe, one of them will be the next McNabb, McNair or Cunningham...... maybe. But more time than not, they end up as the next Vick, or the next Young.

I worry most about Russell Wilson, his situation reminds me too much of Shuan Kings Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
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Old 02-02-2013   #19
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Default Re: WR catch rate: Texans

Walter at the top of the screen; AJ in the slot.
Due to play action fake, the LBs stepped up.
The middle safety had to cut off AJ, leaving Walter wide open in the middle;
too bad, Schaub had to throw the ball away due to pressure:


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Old 02-02-2013   #20
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Default Re: WR catch rate: Texans

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post




Schaub's got some limitations. Refusal to throw it deep isn't one of them. We've consistently been among the more explosive teams in the league for at least the last 5 years.

And now his arm "simply" isn't strong enough to make throws he's regularly made over the last 6 years.... uh-huh..
I think you have to look at how they made those big plays - They get Schaub out of the pocket and allow him to put a lot of air under the ball allowing the reciever to run under (adjust to) the ball .... These arent throws that require a lot of accuracy or zip on them with a flat trajectory. Those are the throws Schaub cant make and hasnt made or been asked to make.
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