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Old 01-29-2013   #1
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Default Ranking the 2012 Offensive Lines

Ranking the 2012 Offensive Lines
Khaled Elsayed | 2013/01/28
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Each year we present our list of the top offensive lines in football. Itís not built on which teams gave up the most sacks, or who had the most rushing yards.

It goes far beyond that.

No, we understand that the success a team has in running the ball or protecting the quarterback is more than just a reflection of the offensive line. It involves the skill players making plays, whether thatís getting rid of the ball before pressure can develop, breaking a tackle to turn a 2-yard run into a 20-yard one, or making sure that blitzing defensive back is halted in his progress.

Our 2012 Offensive Line Rankings look solely at those guys who are offensive linemen, and how theyíve performed. Itís broken down into three categories (Pass Protection, Run and Screen Blocking, and Penalties) and between them they give us an overall score which leads to the rankings.

Now, letís countdown to No. 1 (2011 rank in brackets Ė green Improving, red dropping).
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10. Houston Texans (-5 spots)

PassBlock Ė 8th, RunBlock Ė 12th, Penalty Ė 6th

Stud: There isnít a more complete left tackle in the game at the moment than Duane Brown (+35.6). His athleticism is on the tape for all to see, in a way you donít often imagine from men his size.

Dud: They couldnít afford to keep Eric Winston and the end result was a big dropoff courtesy of Derek Newton (-8.7). He just couldnít execute in the run game the way Winston had.

Summary: They lost two starters and it showed at times against bigger and better defenses. Still, the duo of Chris Myers and Duane Brown excelled and they rarely let their quarterback feel pressure. All things considered, it could have been a lot worse.
read more: https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...fensive-lines/
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Old 01-29-2013   #2
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Default Re: Ranking the 2012 Offensive Lines

It's ironic that this subject was posted today. I was actually thinking about starting a thread w/ this info that I read today concerning the o-line play of 2012 compared to years past.
http://www.stateofthetexans.com/?p=10105

It seems, as the write up suggested, that we may have been spoiled a bit by the play & production of the right side that consisted of Winston & Briesel in 2011. Looking at the numbers it seems the o-line was very similar to the o-line play of past excluding 2011. Maybe the right side needs time to grow because it didn't play like most expected w/ Caldwell & Butler, but instead was led by 3 1st time starters w/ 2 rookies being part of a rotation. It did seem Newton made mistakes at the worst possible times, but was essentially getting his 1st opportunity to start. They did get better towards the end of the season & it never hurts to draft the position for depth purposes, but we had to be fooling ourselves if we believed the o-line would be unaffected by the loss of 2 starters.

Given the information & youth on the o-line, just how important of a need is or should they be given time to grow before giving them the hook. Newton specifically.
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Old 01-30-2013   #3
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Default Re: Ranking the 2012 Offensive Lines

I think Caldwell and Butler will be gone in FA and Newton is your starting RT next year. He should be given a chance to grow into the position because he was essentially a rookie last year having only played 17 snaps in 2011. Statistically Newton had a good year in pass protection, much better than Winston, but he left alot to be desired in run blocking which he'll grow into with better strength and conditioning. Newton missed a couple games due to injury but he looked much better after he came back. I also think Brooks play time at RG was important because he'll be our RG of the future with Jones being primary backup at all the interior positions. We'll need some depth in the draft, including an OG to replace W. Smith after the 2013 season at LG, but I think the future of our O-line is a bright one. They're going to be fine next year barring any injuries.
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Old 01-30-2013   #4
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Default Re: Ranking the 2012 Offensive Lines

Eh, I disagree a bit on Newton. Was it basically a rookie year? Yes. But when you have a Superbowl contending team do you sit back and put all your chips and hopes on him 'possibly' developing or bring in someone in case he doesn't take that step? So just handing the position to Newton would be a bad move imo. He didn't improve as the season went on. He would have a good game and then a bad one. He was very inconsistent and was our worse graded lineman by far. It wasn't even close.

This is basically how Newton graded out during the season/playoffs. He missed two games:

Week 1: -4.5 (Miami)
Week 2: 2.8 (Jax)
Week 3: -6.3 (Den)
Week 4: 0.7 (Tenn)
Week 5: -1.0 (NYJ)
Week 6: 0.8 (GBay)
Week 7: -1.4 (Balt)
Week 8: 0.6 (Buff)
Week 9: -4.1 (Chi)
Week 10: 2.3 (Jax)
Week 11: -1.6 (Det)
Week 12: 1.7 (Ind)
Week 13: -2.6 (Min)
Week 14: 3.9 (Ind)
Week 15: -1.2 (Cinci)
Week 16: -3.6 (New England)

That is the definition of inconsistency. No signs of progress. In fact his best games were against the weakest competition in Jacksonville, Indy which were the ONLY teams he graded in the green. Against better teams...nada.

I'm not saying as in 'cut this guy!' Just that someone does need to be brought in and nothing just handed off to Newton. Last year he had a battle with Butler and let's be real...they both sucked in the preseason. We're contenders NOW not two years later (the hopefully will be then as well lol)while this guy develops. The line was an issue and just leaving it 'as is' and hoping someone takes that next step could lead us to the same inconsistency we saw this past season.

Were we spoiled by 2011? Yeah, possibly. At the same time look at our key personnel offensively. It is Foster. His running style is one of patience and finding the running lane that develops. But the inconsistency in the blocking up front made that a hinderance and overly difficult for him to progress in a manner we're use to.

So by all means let Newton hold his spot in a real competition. He earns it then that is good and means he worked his butt during the offseason. But definitely don't just go in thinking 'Oh we just need depth at RT' because Ryan Harris actually outperformed Newton so we have 'depth'. We need someone ready to step up and contribute and there is no where near a guarantee Newton is that.
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Old 01-30-2013   #5
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Default Re: Ranking the 2012 Offensive Lines

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Originally Posted by deucetx View Post
Eh, I disagree a bit on Newton. Was it basically a rookie year? Yes. But when you have a Superbowl contending team do you sit back and put all your chips and hopes on him 'possibly' developing or bring in someone in case he doesn't take that step? So just handing the position to Newton would be a bad move imo. He didn't improve as the season went on. He would have a good game and then a bad one. He was very inconsistent and was our worse graded lineman by far. It wasn't even close.

This is basically how Newton graded out during the season/playoffs. He missed two games:

Week 1: -4.5 (Miami)
Week 2: 2.8 (Jax)
Week 3: -6.3 (Den)
Week 4: 0.7 (Tenn)
Week 5: -1.0 (NYJ)
Week 6: 0.8 (GBay)
Week 7: -1.4 (Balt)
Week 8: 0.6 (Buff)
Week 9: -4.1 (Chi)
Week 10: 2.3 (Jax)
Week 11: -1.6 (Det)
Week 12: 1.7 (Ind)
Week 13: -2.6 (Min)
Week 14: 3.9 (Ind)
Week 15: -1.2 (Cinci)
Week 16: -3.6 (New England)

That is the definition of inconsistency. No signs of progress. In fact his best games were against the weakest competition in Jacksonville, Indy which were the ONLY teams he graded in the green. Against better teams...nada.

I'm not saying as in 'cut this guy!' Just that someone does need to be brought in and nothing just handed off to Newton. Last year he had a battle with Butler and let's be real...they both sucked in the preseason. We're contenders NOW not two years later (the hopefully will be then as well lol)while this guy develops. The line was an issue and just leaving it 'as is' and hoping someone takes that next step could lead us to the same inconsistency we saw this past season.

Were we spoiled by 2011? Yeah, possibly. At the same time look at our key personnel offensively. It is Foster. His running style is one of patience and finding the running lane that develops. But the inconsistency in the blocking up front made that a hinderance and overly difficult for him to progress in a manner we're use to.

So by all means let Newton hold his spot in a real competition. He earns it then that is good and means he worked his butt during the offseason. But definitely don't just go in thinking 'Oh we just need depth at RT' because Ryan Harris actually outperformed Newton so we have 'depth'. We need someone ready to step up and contribute and there is no where near a guarantee Newton is that.
I'm not saying Newton isn't a problem, but handing him the job is essentially what Kubiak chose to do when the Texans were suppose to be considered Super Bowl contenders this year. Not the best practice by any means, but showed you kubiaks faith in him. After a year of experience & growth do we think Kubiak will bring in adequate competition, not talking about a 6th or 7th round pick, or will he hold the course & expect Newton to improve. Knowing kubiaks history of being a year or 2 late on making needed moves I wouldn't he surprised if the position is not addressed in the fashion that we would expect.

Also, how are these grades being calculated? Looking at the fact that newton graded out negatively in the 2 playoff games seems somewhat surprising to me considering the fact that Schaub was very rarely touched against both NE & Cincy & Cincy actually led the NFL in sacks. Considering the competition you would think he would've graded out better as opposed to the NE game being considered 1 of his worst showings.
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Old 01-30-2013   #6
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Default Re: Ranking the 2012 Offensive Lines

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Originally Posted by tru80texan View Post
I'm not saying Newton isn't a problem, but handing him the job is essentially what Kubiak chose to do when the Texans were suppose to be considered Super Bowl contenders this year. Not the best practice by any means, but showed you kubiaks faith in him. After a year of experience & growth do we think Kubiak will bring in adequate competition, not talking about a 6th or 7th round pick, or will he hold the course & expect Newton to improve. Knowing kubiaks history of being a year or 2 late on making needed moves I wouldn't he surprised if the position is not addressed in the fashion that we would expect.

Also, how are these grades being calculated? Looking at the fact that newton graded out negatively in the 2 playoff games seems somewhat surprising to me considering the fact that Schaub was very rarely touched against both NE & Cincy & Cincy actually led the NFL in sacks. Considering the competition you would think he would've graded out better as opposed to the NE game being considered 1 of his worst showings.
Definitely agree. Kubiak's loyalty is a hinderance sometimes. Not sure if it all falls on him as I'm sure we can toss Rick Smith in there. Not sure about that guy's cap management as he doesn't seem to make things happen with restructures in the way I see other teams do. He just clears out and moves on.

In both those playoff games Newton allowed the most QB hurries (well tied with good ol' Wade Smith who I still wonder how he got to the probowl). Only two in the Bengals game but 4 in the Patrtiots. Remember he got benched for Ryan Harris some time in the 3rd quarter of the Pats game who did a bit better. Not sure if he is his competition though but who knows. Knowing Kubiak he just might be since we may go after a TE. We're long overdue after all lol.
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Old 01-30-2013   #7
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Default Re: Ranking the 2012 Offensive Lines

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Originally Posted by tru80texan View Post
I'm not saying Newton isn't a problem, but handing him the job is essentially what Kubiak chose to do when the Texans were suppose to be considered Super Bowl contenders this year. Not the best practice by any means, but showed you kubiaks faith in him. After a year of experience & growth do we think Kubiak will bring in adequate competition, not talking about a 6th or 7th round pick, or will he hold the course & expect Newton to improve. Knowing kubiaks history of being a year or 2 late on making needed moves I wouldn't he surprised if the position is not addressed in the fashion that we would expect.

Also, how are these grades being calculated? Looking at the fact that newton graded out negatively in the 2 playoff games seems somewhat surprising to me considering the fact that Schaub was very rarely touched against both NE & Cincy & Cincy actually led the NFL in sacks. Considering the competition you would think he would've graded out better as opposed to the NE game being considered 1 of his worst showings.
Newton wasn't just handed the job, he was the backup for Rashad Butler and competed with him in camp to win the position, but Butler went on IR so he didn't have much of a chance to lose it. When you lose a starter, it's not uncommon to have a less experienced backup take over. And it's not like the team didn't try to address the position further, they picked up Ryan Harris mid-season and worked him into the RT rotation. Harris had a lot of injury issues though, and I think that's why he was limited in his play.

Let's not pretend Kubiak did nothing to address the position though, and he certainly can't foresee Butler's injury. Cutting Winston hurt the team for sure, but it was a calculated risk that didn't go our way.
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Old 01-31-2013   #8
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Default Re: Ranking the 2012 Offensive Lines

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Originally Posted by deucetx View Post
Eh, I disagree a bit on Newton.

This is basically how Newton graded out during the season/playoffs. He missed two games:

Week 1: -4.5 (Miami)
Week 2: 2.8 (Jax)
Week 3: -6.3 (Den)
Week 4: 0.7 (Tenn)
Week 5: -1.0 (NYJ)
Week 6: 0.8 (GBay)
Week 7: -1.4 (Balt)
Week 8: 0.6 (Buff)
Week 9: -4.1 (Chi)
Week 10: 2.3 (Jax)
Week 11: -1.6 (Det)
Week 12: 1.7 (Ind)
Week 13: -2.6 (Min)
Week 14: 3.9 (Ind)
Week 15: -1.2 (Cinci)
Week 16: -3.6 (New England)

That is the definition of inconsistency. No signs of progress.
Great post..... but I disagree. I don't know what to make of their numbers because I've yet to figure out how they get them. I've read the explanation & everything, but I've watched the OLmen & my opinion always differ from theirs.

Not saying I'm right, or they're wrong. & if you agree with their ratings, rankings, & scores..... that's fine.

I factor in that Newton was getting his first NFL experience this year & I was impressed with what I saw through the first 8 or 9 games. I thought he was an immediate upgrade over Winston in the passing game but was a big drop off in the run game.

But I saw all the things I like to see that suggests he can play at this level. I liked his feet, his lateral movement, his hands, his eyes.. all in pass pro. In the run game, I liked his speed, his power & his agility. Needs more upper body strength & needs to get mean.

I don't know that he'll ever match Winston's play on the play side, but I think he has the ability to play well above Eric on the backside. My criticism of Eric Winston & the reason I never understood paying him $5M/yr was his pass protection & his play on the backside of the run... he was way below avg in both.

If he starts scoring higher in KC as a run blocker &/or pass pro, I'm going to chaulk it up to change of scenery. If there was any player on this team that I thought was "too" comfortable, it was Eric Winston.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deucetx View Post
So by all means let Newton hold his spot in a real competition. He earns it then that is good and means he worked his butt during the offseason. But definitely don't just go in thinking 'Oh we just need depth at RT' because Ryan Harris actually outperformed Newton so we have 'depth'. We need someone ready to step up and contribute and there is no where near a guarantee Newton is that.
Ryan Harris, imo, doesn't have any power. There may have been three plays all year where I said, "That was a good.... whatever" in regards to Ryan Harris.

But I don't have a problem bringing in a guy to compete with Newton.

But I thought our offense dropped off when Newton got hurt. Even when he got back, we still performed below what we had before he got hurt. I think his play was our biggest limiting factor going down the stretch, he didn't get any movement on the line & he was constantly in Schaub's lap.... especially against New England working against smaller guys.

I was all for cutting him until someone reminded me he recently injured his knee & that could be the reason for his drop in play.

So I'm waiting to see how he recovers, but I still wouldn't mind seeing competition.

Everyone wants to believe that we stuck Winston in & all of a sudden, we had a great offensive line & that was far from the case. He was probably our first tackle that actually played at an NFL level.... well, there was Salaam. But I don't think he improved enough from his first day to his last day.
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Old 01-30-2013   #9
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Default Re: Ranking the 2012 Offensive Lines

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I think ... Newton is your starting RT next year. He should be given a chance to grow into the position because he was essentially a rookie last year having only played 17 snaps in 2011. Statistically Newton had a good year in pass protection, much better than Winston, but he left alot to be desired in run blocking ...
Newton had a +0.3 pass block grade (22nd among RTs) while Winston had a 2011 +12.6 pass block grade (5th among RTs).

There was only one RT with a worse run block grade than Newton in 2012.

What I've seen from Newton at times is physical awkwardness. I hope we bring somebody else in.
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Old 01-31-2013   #10
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Default Re: Ranking the 2012 Offensive Lines

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Newton had a +0.3 pass block grade (22nd among RTs) while Winston had a 2011 +12.6 pass block grade (5th among RTs).

There was only one RT with a worse run block grade than Newton in 2012.

What I've seen from Newton at times is physical awkwardness. I hope we bring somebody else in.
What I was referring to was Winstons stats in 2011 when he was a Texan.

Winston in 2011 had 7 penalties for 54 yds., and 7.5 sacks as a 6 yr. vet playing next to Brisiel, another veteran player.

Newton in 2012 had 7 penalties for 41 yds., and 4 sacks as an essential rookie playing next to another rookie.
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