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Old 12-04-2012   #1
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Default Pro Football refo: Texans vs Titans

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Better from Ben

Lost in all the talk as to whether Ndamukong Suh kicked Matt Schaub in the groin, was the fact Suh destroyed Ben Jones. Well, Jones (+3.1) was much better in this one, with the only blemishes being a penalty for holding and a pressure on a stunt. Instead, his run blocking impressed, doing exceptionally well in the first half on a trio of pull blocks that highlighted his athleticism. This year has been hit and miss for the rookie, but Houston will be hoping this is a springboard to better things as we get to the business end of the season.

Struggling Off the Edge

Going up against a combination of Roos and Stewart is never easy. But you’d have be forgiven for thinking with Stewart limited to three plays there may have been something there for the Texans’ edge rush. There wasn’t. Whitney Mercilus (-3.7) produced an exhibition of why stats can only be trusted so much. He picked up two sacks, which is good right? Only both sacks were of the clean up variety, one of his pressures was unblocked and the other was the only time he actually beat a man to cause any pressure. That’s a terrible return on 57 pass rushes, beating a man just once.
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- Sophomore corner Brandon Harris was targeted seven times, giving up just four receptions but for 78 yards (though he did break up two passes).
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...itans-week-13/


I looked...Didn't see this posted...

Please forgive me for my sin if it was.
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Old 12-04-2012   #2
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Default Re: Pro Football refo: Texans vs Titans

Regarding Merci....That's exactly how I saw the game and I couldn't figure out everyone's excitement....

Going against a hobbled Tennesee unit I wanted to see more domination from the OLB's....I saw the clean up, chase down sacks after the QB began to scramble...Didn't see Merciless beat his man much....

He did play better than Brooks Reed as far as pass rushing, but that wasn't a high bar to jump...
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Old 12-04-2012   #3
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Default Re: Pro Football refo: Texans vs Titans

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Regarding Merci....That's exactly how I saw the game and I couldn't figure out everyone's excitement....

Going against a hobbled Tennesee unit I wanted to see more domination from the OLB's....I saw the clean up, chase down sacks after the QB began to scramble...Didn't see Merciless beat his man much....

He did play better than Brooks Reed as far as pass rushing, but that wasn't a high bar to jump...
I'm not going to diss his performance, but increasingly I think teams are gearing up to stop Watt, sometimes with double teams, which may leave others relatively unblocked (or picked up by an RB). So to some degree, I think this is made possible by the presence of guys like Watt whom the other team has identified as the guy you won't let beat you. And yet he still does.
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Old 12-04-2012   #4
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Default Re: Pro Football refo: Texans vs Titans

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PFF Game Ball

Another day, another game ball for J.J. Watt. He just keeps earning them.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...itans-week-13/
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Old 12-04-2012   #5
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Default Re: Pro Football refo: Texans vs Titans

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Regarding Merci....That's exactly how I saw the game and I couldn't figure out everyone's excitement....

Going against a hobbled Tennesee unit I wanted to see more domination from the OLB's....I saw the clean up, chase down sacks after the QB began to scramble...Didn't see Merciless beat his man much....

He did play better than Brooks Reed as far as pass rushing, but that wasn't a high bar to jump...
Barwin is freaking invisible now. I get stats don't tell the whole story, but they say something and he was not there.
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Old 12-04-2012   #6
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Default Re: Pro Football refo: Texans vs Titans

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Originally Posted by BigBull17 View Post
Barwin is freaking invisible now. I get stats don't tell the whole story, but they say something and he was not there.
I want to go back and watch him specifically over the last few weeks. It seems like he's being asked to drop in to coverage a ton. I feel like I see him 15 yards off the line of scrimmage. Almost like Wade wants to allow him to cover the tight ends so the safety's can blitz.

That strikes me as silly, but that's why I need to go look.
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Old 12-04-2012   #7
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Default Re: Pro Football refo: Texans vs Titans

I know at least twice he forced Locker to step up into the pocket. One resulted in a sack by Watt (I believe) and the other that another DLman hit Locker just after he threw it.

Im sure there are more. He hasnt been crazy good but he got a few sacks and was around the ball.
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Old 12-04-2012   #8
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Default Re: Pro Football refo: Texans vs Titans

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Originally Posted by ChrisG View Post
I know at least twice he forced Locker to step up into the pocket. One resulted in a sack by Watt (I believe) and the other that another DLman hit Locker just after he threw it.

Im sure there are more. He hasnt been crazy good but he got a few sacks and was around the ball.
That's why evaluating performance can be very problematic. There are many ways you can help influence a play to become a sack, incompletion or interception without having any statistics that acknowledge your role in helping someone else generate stats for themselves which help the team overall.
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Old 12-04-2012   #9
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Default Re: Pro Football refo: Texans vs Titans

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Originally Posted by ChrisG View Post
I know at least twice he forced Locker to step up into the pocket.
I don't specifically remember those plays and I won't dispute that...

Having said that, forcing a guy to step up into the pocket is not anything special.
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Old 12-04-2012   #10
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Default Re: Pro Football refo: Texans vs Titans

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Originally Posted by noxiousdog View Post
I want to go back and watch him specifically over the last few weeks. It seems like he's being asked to drop in to coverage a ton. I feel like I see him 15 yards off the line of scrimmage. Almost like Wade wants to allow him to cover the tight ends so the safety's can blitz.

That strikes me as silly, but that's why I need to go look.
He does have coverage responsibility some.
We also ask him to do a lot of different things that take away from his pass rush.

In his capacity within the scheme, I think it's unrealistic to ask to average more than 2.5 QB disruption per game. I think 2 is more realistic, really.
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Old 12-04-2012   #11
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Default Re: Pro Football refo: Texans vs Titans

Nice to see the game is starting to slow down for Ben Jones. Veteran O-lineman have good things to say about his mental game, and they've apparently taken a shine to him -- he's a bit of a character.

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Old 12-04-2012   #12
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Default Re: Pro Football refo: Texans vs Titans

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Regarding Merci....That's exactly how I saw the game and I couldn't figure out everyone's excitement....

Going against a hobbled Tennesee unit I wanted to see more domination from the OLB's....I saw the clean up, chase down sacks after the QB began to scramble...Didn't see Merciless beat his man much....

He did play better than Brooks Reed as far as pass rushing, but that wasn't a high bar to jump...
I don't know if I grade the same way as they do, or you do. I'd like to see him beat his man as well & chase the QB around. I didn't see that.

But I don't "take-away" points because of a hustle sack. A sack is a sack & it hurts just as much as a "he beat his man" sack. It's like batting the ball down or chasing the RB down on a screen.

And while he wasn't beating his man, he was pushing him back making the pocket smaller a lot. I was impressed with his strength.

I liked his energy & even without the two hustle sacks I think he did a better job closing the pocket than Barwin did. No one (other than Watt) gets a sack a game. That's not a requirement.
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Old 12-04-2012   #13
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Default Re: Pro Football refo: Texans vs Titans

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Originally Posted by Fiddler View Post
I don't know if I grade the same way as they do, or you do. I'd like to see him beat his man as well & chase the QB around. I didn't see that.

But I don't "take-away" points because of a hustle sack. A sack is a sack & it hurts just as much as a "he beat his man" sack. It's like batting the ball down or chasing the RB down on a screen.


I liked his energy & even without the two hustle sacks I think he did a better job closing the pocket than Barwin did. No one (other than Watt) gets a sack a game. That's not a requirement.
I think they are taking away points on plays where he was innefective or got handled by the o-linemen. I doubt they are taking away points for what basically amounts to a hustle sack...or a sack caused by another player flushing the QB to them...

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And while he wasn't beating his man, he was pushing him back making the pocket smaller a lot. I was impressed with his strength.
JMO, but I think you are confusing strength with speed/quickness. Merciless has more quickness than Barwin and Reed by a long shot. It's not even close at this point.

When you get up field fast on a tackle, you make them slide faster and farther back. When an OL is overly concerned about your quickness on the edge it's easier to catch them off guard/off balance and beat them with a bull rush...

They are sliding back really fast and then all of a sudden you get into their body and just use momentum against them....

But if all that means is that you catch them off guard a little, but they quickly recover and just stonewall you right there, then it doesn't matter....


Look at outside pass rushers from other teams. Look at how many times they actually beat the Tackles...Sacks aside...Just look at how much they beat them.

Our outside guys aren't doing it nearly enough.

Thing with Merciless is that, IMO, he wasn't great at it but 1) he has the most room to improve 2) he's already better than Reed or Barwin....but that aint saying much
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Old 12-04-2012   #14
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Default Re: Pro Football refo: Texans vs Titans

I heard Lance Zierlein say Mercilus might be the best OLB on the team at this point, so I'm going with that, FWIW...
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Old 12-04-2012   #15
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Default Re: Pro Football refo: Texans vs Titans

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Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
I heard Lance Zierlein say Mercilus might be the best OLB on the team at this point, so I'm going with that, FWIW...

From same article...

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Struggling Off the Edge

Going up against a combination of Roos and Stewart is never easy. But you’d have be forgiven for thinking with Stewart limited to three plays there may have been something there for the Texans’ edge rush. There wasn’t. Whitney Mercilus (-3.7) produced an exhibition of why stats can only be trusted so much. He picked up two sacks, which is good right? Only both sacks were of the clean up variety, one of his pressures was unblocked and the other was the only time he actually beat a man to cause any pressure. That’s a terrible return on 57 pass rushes, beating a man just once.
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Old 12-04-2012   #16
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Default Re: Pro Football refo: Texans vs Titans

Nvm
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