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Old 10-21-2012   #1
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Default What happened to the turtle?

We had a 13 point league for most of the game, but we kept pushing. What happened?

I honestly thought on that bobbled snap Gary was going to call the dogs off. But Matt recovered well, & we kept playing.

30 point lead, could have made it worse, but he took a knee & I'm sure Harbaugh appreciated it.
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Old 10-21-2012   #2
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Default Re: What happened to the turtle?

Great question. The team is better and Kubiak is better. What the hell is going on around here?
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Old 10-21-2012   #3
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Default Re: What happened to the turtle?

To add on:

What happened to the 3rd and long draw play for the RB?

I can only remember us running it once in normal field position, and us actually going for a pass on another occasion, that time in our own endzone.

Really refreshing to see us drop the predictable playcalling that I've been used to seeing in usual situations for the last couple of years, and actually deciding to impose our dominance this game.
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Old 10-21-2012   #4
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Default Re: What happened to the turtle?

I think after how greenbay was still throwing on us with 3 minutes left with a BIG lead last week that maybe Kubiak had a bad taste in his mouth. Hopefully he will throw all that respect B.S out the window and we can win by 30 every game.
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Old 10-21-2012   #5
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Default Re: What happened to the turtle?

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I think after how greenbay was still throwing on us with 3 minutes left with a BIG lead last week that maybe Kubiak had a bad taste in his mouth. Hopefully he will throw all that respect B.S out the window and we can win by 30 every game.
This. Hopefully it wasn't a one time deal.
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Old 10-21-2012   #6
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Default Re: What happened to the turtle?

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This. Hopefully it wasn't a one time deal.
It's never been a one time deal. Look at last year's schedule, we were blowing teams out with Schaub.

It has been my experience, that he turtle's up when things aren't going our way, but he still wants to win the game. If we can't get to a manageable third down, if we're dropping balls, if we're "lucky" we didn't turn the ball over...... when too many of these things add up, he goes safe. Sometimes the guys on offense aren't clicking for whatever reason. He prevents that from turning into those games where we shoot ourselves in the foot.
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Old 10-21-2012   #7
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Default Re: What happened to the turtle?

We run a lot when we are up big. Normally, teams stack the box and stop the run. Thats why we look like we're turtling.

We ran the ball almost 40 times today. We did go more conservative up big, the Ravens just couldn't stop our ground game.
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Old 10-21-2012   #8
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Default Re: What happened to the turtle?

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Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
We run a lot when we are up big. Normally, teams stack the box and stop the run. Thats why we look like we're turtling.

We ran the ball almost 40 times today. We did go more conservative up big, the Ravens just couldn't stop our ground game.
i think theymean even before the half up by 20 we were still trying to score before half, note the 3 shot gun passes from schaub. Any other time we would just run out the clock, this was def a different Kubiak
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Old 10-21-2012   #9
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Default Re: What happened to the turtle?

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Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
We run a lot when we are up big. Normally, teams stack the box and stop the run. Thats why we look like we're turtling.

We ran the ball almost 40 times today. We did go more conservative up big, the Ravens just couldn't stop our ground game.
Even then, Gary Kubiak is one of the coldest blood thirsty OCs out there. We get that big lead, we pound the ball & then he catches them napping with a big bootleg for a 40+ yard Touch down.

Running the ball isn't conservative when you've got the best OL in the league (which we had last year & working towards this year) & two tail-backs that can take it to the house from anywhere on the field.
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Old 10-21-2012   #10
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Default Re: What happened to the turtle?

uhhhh i dont think we stepped on there throat we left a few 4 and 1 and 4 and 3 on the field if we would of gone 4 them man the score might have been a 50 burger or at least 40 +
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Old 10-21-2012   #11
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Default Re: What happened to the turtle?

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Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
We run a lot when we are up big. Normally, teams stack the box and stop the run. Thats why we look like we're turtling.

We ran the ball almost 40 times today. We did go more conservative up big, the Ravens just couldn't stop our ground game.
Exactly. Amazing how much better the 'play calling' is with a little execution, eh?
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Old 10-22-2012   #12
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Pure speculation, but here goes:

Kuharsky reported that Kubiak called out the Captains this past week.

I do wonder, though, if Matt Schaub had a sit down with Coach K and voiced his own opinions of what had gone wrong...what HAS gone wrong many times when we've lost games we should have won.

Remember Schaub over on the sideline during the early moments of the GB game last Sunday night? He said very plainly (A lot of people in the game thread saw it) "This is BULL****."

Now, what is bull****? GB being GB is not bull****...that's who they had been and should be this year, so it's not GB he's talking about. Is it his fellow teammates who are bull****? I doubt it. Schaub is the consummate professional when it comes to treating his fellow teammates...he's no Jay Cutler.

My theory, and I know it's just a theory, is that there was a mild intervention of some sorts whereby someone or a group of someones voices their displeasure with the conservative nature of this offense.

Look, I know we were winning games up until last week's nightmare. Truth be told, though, we were showing patterns and tendencies of sort of sandbagging it on offense...taking possessions off, so to speak. There were far too many times that this defense was bailing out the offense.

I had said in the early days of Wade's hiring that IF this defense got to be crazy scary awesome...it could become a problem down the line for this team. I'm not talking a full revolt of Buddy Ryan and Kevin Gilbride proportions, I meant that there could exist some turmoil between the two units if a defense is consistently bailing out an offense.

To me, it is arguable that Wade's defense was shouldering far too much of the load in the first 5 games of this season...a trend that was building since last season, IMO. I think the GB game, without Cushing, is where our defense collectively sandbagged it. OK, probably not JJ Watt because he's like a one-man army on every snap and probably in practice too. I'm only theorizing that it's possible that the whole team got into a funk and although Gary had a talk with the Captains, I wonder if someone had a talk with the General himself.

Because what I saw vs. Ravens was THE most electric performance on both sides of the ball. It's not just a coincidence that the defense made Herculean plays all game long, yesterday, after having such a huge turd just a week prior. The offense was shark-like all game long, never stopping and sandbagging it like a traditional Kubiak offense has in the past.

There was aggressiveness not just in play, but in playCALLING as well.

It was the first truly dominant performance I have seen by this team. It's the type of performance you see out of Saints/Patriots/Green Bay. The teams we said we want to emulate in our aggressiveness in terms of play calling.

I'm just saying that it's possible that accountability worked its way upward and not just down the hill this time. I would think that Matt Schaub is the type of leader who would cash in quite a bit of equity that he might have been storing up for a rainy day. Thoughts?
Yah, i saw the Schauby "BS"-bomb...loved it btw...

What i took away from that moment was Schaub just letting it out, because poor play from all over had finally added up and Kubiak not going for it triggered the reaction.. Receivers weren't getting open, the running game sucked, the defense was getting torched...

I remember a third down near/inside the redzone where Schaub was able to sit back in the pocket and clip his fingernails... Even got in a couple'a toes as well..i mean the line gave him enough time to check his receivers twice, but no one was open... when the line finally let a guy through, Schaub threw the ball away in disgust, maybe at Foster's feet (I don't remember)... It wasn't just play-calling and/or strategy that was getting to him, he was pissed at everyone...

So as for theories, i bet Matty went into the locker room after that game and ripped everyone's ass (cept Watt i hope)...something about him this year, it just seems like he is "the" leader...dunno what it is...
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Old 10-22-2012   #13
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Default Re: What happened to the turtle?

Fans don't like it, but running plays to eat the clock when you have a lead is a time-tested strategy in the NFL.

High completion percentage / low risk plays on offense and relying on defense when leading has taken many teams to the Super Bowl.

I'm fairly certain that Bill Walsh, the tree that spawned Kubiak's branch, did the same thing. And Walsh is widely considered a genius coach.
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Old 10-22-2012   #14
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Default Re: What happened to the turtle?

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Fans don't like it, but running plays to eat the clock when you have a lead is a time-tested strategy in the NFL.
Well, there's a distinction that you're missing. Getting first downs to eat the clock is a time tested strategy. Running the ball 3 and out when you're barely into the 4th quarter and giving the ball back to an elite QB like Manning or Brees, not so much. If you run the ball to eat the clock, you have to convert a few 3rd downs. If you don't, you have to adjust. Yesterday was perfect - eighteen running plays to end the game, because they got first downs. Earlier this season against the Broncos was almost the other side of that coin.
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Old 10-22-2012   #15
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Default Re: What happened to the turtle?

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Well, there's a distinction that you're missing. Getting first downs to eat the clock is a time tested strategy. Running the ball 3 and out when you're barely into the 4th quarter and giving the ball back to an elite QB like Manning or Brees, not so much. If you run the ball to eat the clock, you have to convert a few 3rd downs. If you don't, you have to adjust. Yesterday was perfect - eighteen running plays to end the game, because they got first downs. Earlier this season against the Broncos was almost the other side of that coin.
I do not disagree with you.

However, Kubiak is just calling the plays. I do not think Kubiak looks at 3 and out as a valid strategy. Every play is designed to be successful. Sometimes it is as simple as the players having to execute those plays. You can't really blame Kubiak if Schaub throws a ball to a receiver that is a yard short, or if they call a running play and some lineman blows his assignment. There's often a fine line between failure and success in the NFL. Sometimes that line is in control of the guys on the field.
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Old 10-22-2012   #16
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Default Re: What happened to the turtle?

IMO, this is first game ever that Kubiak let the hounds loose. His philosophy remind me of an MMA fighter who takes his opponent to ground and hopes to hold on to get a submission. This game was like Bully Beat Down in that he allowed them up only long enough to take them down again. He used running plays to take time off but kep the passes mixed in to catch them off guard. Perfect game plan.
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Old 10-22-2012   #17
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Default Re: What happened to the turtle?

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I do not disagree with you.

However, Kubiak is just calling the plays. I do not think Kubiak looks at 3 and out as a valid strategy. Every play is designed to be successful. Sometimes it is as simple as the players having to execute those plays. You can't really blame Kubiak if Schaub throws a ball to a receiver that is a yard short, or if they call a running play and some lineman blows his assignment. There's often a fine line between failure and success in the NFL. Sometimes that line is in control of the guys on the field.

exactly.. if the play call is executed .. then all is good.

when it doesn't. fans are saying "why didn't you do it the other thing?"

we passed early on green bay and people were complaining that we didn't run.. we ran early on the ravens and people complained that we didn't pass... hindsight is a beautiful thing with arm chair quarterbacks
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Old 10-22-2012   #18
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Default Re: What happened to the turtle?

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
Fans don't like it, but running plays to eat the clock when you have a lead is a time-tested strategy in the NFL.

High completion percentage / low risk plays on offense and relying on defense when leading has taken many teams to the Super Bowl.

I'm fairly certain that Bill Walsh, the tree that spawned Kubiak's branch, did the same thing. And Walsh is widely considered a genius coach.
But getting first downs is also important. Good defense, bad defense, it don't matter. When a good team decides it wants to ice the clock, it is up to your team to stop them, get them off the field. Think about all those times MJD did it to us. Think about all those time Eddy George or Edgerin James or Marshall Faulk did it to other teams.

Nothing wrong with conservative, in my book, as long as you average more than 3.3 yards per play.
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Old 10-22-2012   #19
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What about Arian's breakout game against Indy? Or the trouncing of Tennessee last year, or the beat down in Jville & Tampa Bay? all pretty similar if you ask me.
@Tennessee last year is a great example... Maybe because it was Baltimore it seems a bit more impressive, but i think Kubs called it more loosely @Tenn last year..

Of course the plays have to be executed..he's called it loose before, it just doesn't work so the way the game was called is forgotten...

Tampa Bay fits a little as well, but @Tenn last year was awesome...
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Old 10-23-2012   #20
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I do not disagree with you.

However, Kubiak is just calling the plays. I do not think Kubiak looks at 3 and out as a valid strategy. Every play is designed to be successful. Sometimes it is as simple as the players having to execute those plays. You can't really blame Kubiak if Schaub throws a ball to a receiver that is a yard short, or if they call a running play and some lineman blows his assignment. There's often a fine line between failure and success in the NFL. Sometimes that line is in control of the guys on the field.
Yeah man, but the point is the plays Kubiak has traditionally called are far too predictable. I know you watch the games so ask yourself how many times you have seen this team in the late third/early fourth quarter just run 3 straight downs and punt the ball multiple drives in a row? That's all well and good against the Gabbert's and Sanchez's of the world, but it doesn't work so well against the Rodger's and the Brady's of the world. You have to be willing and ready to step on their throats. Throw the ball a little. Keep the defense honest.

Anyway, I sincerely hope this is a new Kubiak. I need to see it a couple more times to believe it though. I am ecstatic about what I saw. I hope I see it more often. Go Texans!!
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