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Old 07-17-2011   #1
76Texan
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Red face Kareem Jackson's plight.

Previously, I had mentioned that Jackson was a victim of the two-receiver pattern quite a few times.

It involves a cover 3 scheme for the defense.
The receiver that KJ lined up on would run some sort of an inside route (whether a skinny post or a post route.)
The receiver (or TE) on the opposite side of the field (Quin covering) would run a crossing route through the middle.

The single safety in the middle can either step down on the crossing route or stay deep to help Jackson defend the inside route.
If the safety steps down too quickly, the QB would go long with nobody to man the middle.
Unless the other CB (Quin) quickly moves up top to take the place of the safety, Jackson becomes the goat.

The Texans actually did it right once, where Quin was about to collect an INT, only to have Nolan also got back and deflected the pass into the receiver's hands.
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Old 07-17-2011   #2
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

The Texans offense was no stranger to this pattern; they ran it successfully a few times themselves.

One example is the 53-yd defensive inteference that the Colts CB had to commit in week one to avoid a longer TD pass.

Here are some screen shots to depict the play.

The Colts originally showed cover 2.
I simply depict the LCB as Jackson and the RCB as Quin.

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Old 07-17-2011   #3
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

The Texans were in a 2-TE, single back set.
Foster would fake a run to the right;
The FS would step down to play the run.

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Old 07-17-2011   #4
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

Walter run the skinny post;
the LCB (Jackson) would turn him in toward the middle and trailed to the outside, guarding the corner route or a come-backer.

AJ ran the crossing route.
The SS would step down to check him.
The RCB (Quin) hesiatated a bit (he needed to be sure that AJ ws not to come back to his side) before he head up top to take over the SS place in the middle.
A little hesitation was all it took.

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Old 07-17-2011   #5
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Old 07-17-2011   #6
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Old 07-22-2011   #7
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Funny how all these bad situations seemed to find kj.

I thunk being cursed is worse than sucking.
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Old 07-22-2011   #8
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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Funny how all these bad situations seemed to find kj.

I thunk being cursed is worse than sucking.
That team was nothing short of snake bit last season .....
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Old 07-22-2011   #9
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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Funny how all these bad situations seemed to find kj.

I thunk being cursed is worse than sucking.
See, that's why I mean by generalization.

If you know football, and you love football, go through each of these plays with me, and give me your opinion how, what, and why things can be better.
Don't be a common fan.
You say you're not.
Learn me what I don't know!
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Old 07-22-2011   #10
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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Funny how all these bad situations seemed to find kj.

I thunk being cursed is worse than sucking.
If we collectively scrutinized our other corners, you would find just as many.

If we collectively scrutinized Kyle Wilson or Antonio Cromartie, you'll find just as many.

There are several reasons why some of us are hung up on KJac, some are good, some are bad...... but we're focused on him none-the-less & every little thing he does is big news.

We're talking about Jason Allen like he should be a pro-bowler....... that should be enough to warn us that something ain't right... slow down.... rethink the whole situation.

There are somethings every corner should be able to do. There are somethings that no corner can be expected to do.

We know about his speed issue.... no one is denying that.
We know about his falling down....

In this thread, 76 has shown us how other teams played a common 2 receiver route... AJ whupped their asses... these aren't Texans' starters, these are bonafide would-be-starters on other teams. But it is an impossible route for a CB to cover on his own. With the other players out of position it is easy to see why some uninformed critics would lay the blame solely at the feet of the CB. Then you throw in the television production crews, who will sensationalize grass growing if they could....... & you've got fans watching KJac getting burned again & again & again. (Even though it wasn't KJac who got burned).
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Old 07-22-2011   #11
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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
See, that's why I mean by generalization.

If you know football, and you love football, go through each of these plays with me, and give me your opinion how, what, and why things can be better.
Don't be a common fan.
You say you're not.
Learn me what I don't know!
I will as soon as I'm off my phone and on the computer.

What I think you should do though is look at the plays where Kareem screwed up.

All corners get beat or "appear to get beat".

That's why you have to have a short memory at the position. So yeah, you can point out plays where aso got beat or revis got schooled. Difference is those guys make their safeties job easier. Kjax doesn't. Even if you're expecting help that doesn't mean you let the wr do what ever they want. You still should be in playmaking distance. Sometimes the safeties will bite on other things. Tis the nature of being a safety.

The difference between the good corners and the shitty ones is that the good ones have the ability to atleast occasionally bail out bad play from others around them.

If you can only perform when the safeties are exactly where they should be, then you're not that good.

If you seem to screw up Everytime a safety is out of position then you are too handicapped to play the position. It's football. People around you are going to mess up.


Funny how other corners didn't find themselves in the same positions kj was in even though they were playing in the same defense and often times against better receivers.

Kjs footwork was awful. Once guys got past him he had no make up speed. He didn't make plays on the field. He wasn't strong at the Los.

I will go back and look at the plays but if you want to talk football we can talk about his timid demeanor in coverage and his shitty techniques.

I get he was a rookie, but he looked lost. Not very instinctual.

It looked like at times like he had no preparation throughout the week and was just told to react to whatever route was run. You see other corners occasionally jump routes because they've seen it on film, and have a feeling it's about to be run. They key off something. Jackson was all reactionary with poor technique.

It's fine too look at plays and say he should have had help, but you have to take into account the total picture. You're a corner you're going to get beat. My coach used to tell the DBS that all the time. But then he'd follow it up with "at least be in position to tackle the guy or slow him down".

Getting beat doesn't mean you have to give up super long td's or huge chunks of yardage.

What exactly did Kareem do to make the safeties job easier?
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Old 07-22-2011   #12
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it is an impossible route for a CB to cover on his own. With the other players out of position it is easy to see why some uninformed critics would lay the blame solely at the feet of the CB. Then you throw in the television production crews, who will sensationalize grass growing if they could....... & you've got fans watching KJac getting burned again & again & again. (Even though it wasn't KJac who got burned).
Who has laid blame solely on anyone?

The safeties aren't even here anymore.

I've yet to see anyone defend the safeties and say kjax made them look worse than what they were. Even though if you think about it logically that was probably the case.

Wilson wasnt a world beater but he looked a lot better when dunta, reeves, and Quinn were at corner. Pollard had a very good season the year before.

Funny how they both fell off and looked like shit when the kiddie corners took the field.

Last year though, it was a collective effort of suckiness from all parties involved.

The safeties weren't good enough to mask the cb's deficiencies and the corners weren't good enough to mask the safeties miscues.

It's a two way street back there in coverage. Sometimes one or the other will mess up. Sometimes both. But the question is do you have enough talent back there to balance things out.

We did not. The coaching was poor, the safeties were poor and yes despite the many cries to the contrary in this thread Kareem Jackson was poor.

Pointing out someone elses mistake is not evidence that Jackson actually played well. All that means is that he us not talented enough to cover up others mistakes.

Also, this two receiver route you guys are talking about is not impossible to cover. Harder? Maybe. "impossible to cover". . . No.
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Old 07-22-2011   #13
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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Pointing out someone elses mistake is not evidence that Jackson actually played well. All that means is that he us not talented enough to cover up others mistakes.

Also, this two receiver route you guys are talking about is not impossible to cover. Harder? Maybe. "impossible to cover". . . No.
Just about all of the photos in this thread have the offense running the same 2 receiver route. All of them show corners, more experienced than KJac in the same position. Including Aso, no position to make a play.

No one is talking about how bad those corners are. KJac is getting scrutinized here for doing the same thing others have done.

Dunta sucked flat out. I dont' believe he would have helped this team one bit in 2010. I don't think he should have been starting in 2009.
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Old 07-22-2011   #14
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Just about all of the photos in this thread have the offense running the same 2 receiver route. All of them show corners, more experienced than KJac in the same position. Including Aso, no position to make a play.

No one is talking about how bad those corners are. KJac is getting scrutinized here for doing the same thing others have done.

Dunta sucked flat out. I dont' believe he would have helped this team one bit in 2010. I don't think he should have been starting in 2009.
All corners get burned.

I didn't expect kjax to be flawless. And the colts corners suck too.

Show me aso getting roasted all year long like kj and maybe I'll see the point.

Abs btw, I think he actaully has talent. But all this stuff about him not looking as bad as he was is ridiculous. Dude was awful last year and he'll be the first to tell you that.

If the route was not able to be adequately defended in man coverage offenses would run it a lot more often and offenses would be a lot more unstoppable.

In fact I've see NFL corners defend that route perfectly.
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Old 07-22-2011   #15
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While you're at it show some footage of Deion being roasted.

Not sure what on earth any of that has to do with Kareem being as bad as he was last year, but might as well show the breakdown.
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Old 07-22-2011   #16
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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While you're at it show some footage of Deion being roasted.

Not sure what on earth any of that has to do with Kareem being as bad as he was last year, but might as well show the breakdown.
I've already presented a couple of game analyis (Colst week 1) and Jets.
It showed that KJax was the CB that had the best performance of the day in each.
Give me time and and I will upload screenshots to show all of that.
(But why can't you show me anything that prove your point , that KJax sucked?)

Now, I don't have Sanders, but if you reread this whole thread, you can see Aso getting burned against the Chargers, not just by the same two-receiver route (in which he was much further away from the action than KJax), but also a 34-yd backshoulder fade on which he was also called for PI.
He also got called for holding and PI on two other seperate plays where he can't afford to let the receiver cut back to the outside. (These are in the gamebook at NFL.com, I don't need to post screenshots of penalties, do I?)
He also got beat as he allowed Floyd to cut back to the outside on another play, but Rivers left the ball just long due to pressure.

Or as Lucky put it, he was "owned" by Floyd the whole game.

Here's a slant route:

http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/.../15yd%20slant/

Here's a post route:
http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/...0post%20route/
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Old 07-22-2011   #17
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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I've already presented a couple of game analyis (Colst week 1) and Jets.
It showed that KJax was the CB that had the best performance of the day in each.
Give me time and and I will upload screenshots to show all of that.
(But why can't you show me anything that prove your point , that KJax sucked?)

Now, I don't have Sanders, but if you reread this whole thread, you can see Aso getting burned against the Chargers, not just by the same two-receiver route (in which he was much further away from the action than KJax), but also a 34-yd backshoulder fade on which he was also called for PI.
He also got called for holding and PI on two other seperate plays where he can't afford to let the receiver cut back to the outside. (These are in the gamebook at NFL.com, I don't need to post screenshots of penalties, do I?)
He also got beat as he allowed Floyd to cut back to the outside on another play, but Rivers left the ball just long due to pressure.

Or as Lucky put it, he was "owned" by Floyd the whole game.

Here's a slant route:

http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/.../15yd%20slant/

Here's a post route:
http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/...0post%20route/
2 games out of 16 - not great odds. Plus all we saw were slide shows of why K. Jac got beat, our how he was unfairly played due to illegal stuff by WRs, our he looked bad because of safties. And i think most of us dont even bother trying to PROVE how he sucked last season because most everyone "besides" you saw how he played and how bad he sucked. Is is easier to convience someone that their our aliens (K. Jac was good) our that the world isnt flat (K. Jac was bad) i think the obvious here.
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Old 07-22-2011   #18
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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2 games out of 16 - not great odds. Plus all we saw were slide shows of why K. Jac got beat, our how he was unfairly played due to illegal stuff by WRs, our he looked bad because of safties. And i think most of us dont even bother trying to PROVE how he sucked last season because most everyone "besides" you saw how he played and how bad he sucked. Is is easier to convience someone that their our aliens (K. Jac was good) our that the world isnt flat (K. Jac was bad) i think the obvious here.
Personally, I don't have a problem saying KJac didn't play well.

My problem is people expecting him to have played better.

My problem is people thinking Dunta played better.

My problem is people thinking Jason Allen played better.

KJac is being scape goated here.... He was bad.... but no worse than you should expect from a rookie corner. He was not the worse corner we had last year..... one of the two best.. I think so.

He most definitely wasn't the biggest problem in our secondary. & he isn't our biggest liability in pass defense.
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Old 07-22-2011   #19
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Personally, I don't have a problem saying KJac didn't play well.

My problem is people expecting him to have played better.

My problem is people thinking Dunta played better.

My problem is people thinking Jason Allen played better.

KJac is being scape goated here.... He was bad.... but no worse than you should expect from a rookie corner. He was not the worse corner we had last year..... one of the two best.. I think so.

He most definitely wasn't the biggest problem in our secondary. & he isn't our biggest liability in pass defense.
Dunta did play better k jax was not one of the better DBS last year and he is not being scapegoated because he still has a job.

Pollard was scapegoated. Not kj.

I don't ever recall a corner getting all twisted up at the Los and roasted for a long td the way Roy williams did him.

He actually had me missing reeves. Atleast he uses to be in playmaking distance. Dunta was not good, but dammit I missed him too.

Kj had me missing almost every scrub corner we've ever trotted out there.


He was not good and I'm not sure how you guys can't see that. Pulling up a few plays out of the hundreds he played is not evidence. Pulling up a couple of plays from aso is not evidence. It's a mere sample. I looked at them and you can't really tell much from still shots.

You can't really see what the technique looks like which is most of the battle. You can't see quickness in and out of cuts. You can't see how fluid the backpedal is or what they look like when they turn their hips.

I think you guys are the ones over simplifying things.

Using a small sample size and then declaring that because the safety wasn't where he needed to be kj looked bad.

We don't Where the safety needed to be. And we don't know how the coaches had the secondary playing.

There is a such thing as a corner being in one on one coverage with one or both of the safeties being in a middle zone. Just because you think it should be cover two doesn't mean it is.

I saw enough last year to come to two conclusions. He has talent, he had an awful first year. That's it. Breaking down particular plays is not something I'm going to do. I saw enough bad things all on my own watching the games last year, and none of the bad things were due to him not having help.

At times he was put in a bad position, but the coaches thought they had a number one corner which is all their fault.
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Old 07-22-2011   #20
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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Or as Lucky put it, he was "owned" by Floyd the whole game.
Great job of pointing out the only game of 300+ yards passing the Raiders allowed in 2010. The Raiders (with Asomugha) had the 2nd ranked pass defense in yards allowed in 2010.

Kareem Jackson and the Texans pass defense? 5 games of 300+ passing yardage allowed and 32nd (also known as last) in the league in passing yardage. The Texans allowed more passing yardage (267 ypg) than any other defense over the past 5 seasons. I don't know how 1 million screen shots can erase that fact.
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