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Old 06-01-2004   #1
done88
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Default Wide open offense?

Looks like ESPN thinks Palmer is going to open up the offense.

"That starts by emptying out Palmer's playbook, which hadn't been fully implemented until now because of the personnel fluctuations.
If the offense -- which ranked last in 2002 and next-to-last in 2003 -- indeed steps it up, the first casualty could be Carr's coif."


Does this mean more passes down the field? Might we see AJ run more reverse's? Will Davis throw a pass? to Carr? On 1st and more then ten will the Texans run something other then the draw?

I'm really excited to see what he has up his sleeve. We've heard what an offensive genius he is. I hope they open it up and we get some extream excitement.
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Old 06-01-2004   #2
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Originally Posted by done88
Does this mean more passes down the field?
If the new Texan O-line proves it can protect Carr and stay away from the rampant procedure and holding penalties, the answer is likely yes. But if you think the Texans offense will ever resemble the Ram offense, you are going to be disappointed. Dom Capers & Mike Martz could not have more different football philosophies.

BTW, where did you see Chris Palmer and the word genius together in the same sentence?
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Old 06-01-2004   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
BTW, where did you see Chris Palmer and the word genius together in the same sentence?
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Originally Posted by sharon-herald.com
Baltimore, with the 26th-ranked offense, hired the latest "genius," Minnesota coordinator Brian Billick, as head coach. Billick guided the Vikings to the highest points total in league history, but he doesn't have those kinds of tools here.

Coach Chris Palmer, like Billick an offensive mastermind, eventually will turn to top overall pick Tim Couch at quarterback.
When the Texans hired Palmer everyone said he was a great offensive mind. They said his mistake was trying to move from offense to head coach. He was supposed to be one of the best offensive coordinators in the league. The problem is the Texans did not have the talent therefore he had problems. Now on the trick plays. The problem with 1st and more then 10 draws is that the Texans were not surprising anyone. They did it consistantly. Capers limited the offense because he wanted to give the defense the chance to win games. Now he will let Palmer run those trick plays and watch what happens when defensive ends have to saty home to protect against the reverse. Watch when defensive backs have to cover everyone coming out of the backfield (including the QB) and therefore are not as effective on run support. Those trick plays are valuable wheather they gain a lot of yards or not. They are more valuable for the situations they put the defense in then they are for scores or yardage. The Offense without trick plays is like the defense without stunts. Neither can be effective without them. No I don't expect the Rams. But I do expect explosiviness in the offense. The offense will be a threat to score on every play.
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Old 06-01-2004   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by done88
When the Texans hired Palmer everyone said he was a great offensive mind. ...Now he will let Palmer run those trick plays and watch what happens...
I don't want to get into a link posting contest, but I don't think "everyone" thought, coming out of Cleveland, Palmer was a great offensive mind. I'd say opinion on Palmer was mixed, and remains that today.

As far as trick plays are concerned, that RB option pass by Mack in the 4th quarter of the Jax game still burns in my gut. That was a indefensibly stupid call on Palmer's part that could have cost the Texans the game. A trick play on occasion can keep a defense on their toes and force them to play honest. No team employs these type plays better than New England. But they can't be a staple of a NFL offense and there is a right and wrong time to break them out.
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Old 06-01-2004   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
As far as trick plays are concerned, that RB option pass by Mack in the 4th quarter of the Jax game still burns in my gut. That was a indefensibly stupid call on Palmer's part that could have cost the Texans the game. A trick play on occasion can keep a defense on their toes and force them to play honest. No team employs these type plays better than New England. But they can't be a staple of a NFL offense and there is a right and wrong time to break them out.
I agree with this statement. I don't want to see every other play down the field or a trick play. However the holding back of the offense has hurt Carr's development. Teams schemed for the limited plays the Texans called last year. The Texans were playing against defenses that knew what play was coming. If they open up the offense and allow Carr change the play at the line then better things will happen. Last year when carr saw a defense he did not like his play was always wither Davis off tackle or draw. When teams heard him change the play they were licking their chops. This year Capers will turn Palmer loose and Carr will be one of the top three QB's in the NFL.
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Old 06-01-2004   #6
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Originally Posted by done88
However the holding back of the offense has hurt Carr's development.
I have the exact opposite take on this. I feel Carr held back the offense to a certain degree (along with the other young players).
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Old 06-02-2004   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
I don't want to get into a link posting contest, but I don't think "everyone" thought, coming out of Cleveland, Palmer was a great offensive mind. I'd say opinion on Palmer was mixed, and remains that today.
I disagree. He was part of some very productive offenses in Houston, New England, and Jacksonville before getting the head coaching gig in Cleveland. I think the general perception was that he wasn't ready to be a head coach and that he needed to go back to what he did well, coach an offense.

He was the wide receivers coach for the Oilers from 1990-1992 when they ran the run-and-shoot. He got a lot out of them. He joined Parcell's staff in 1993 and was the wide receivers coach for 3 years. In 1996, he became the quarterbacks coach. Look at Bledsoe's TD to INT ratio that season compared to his first 3 years in the league. It is no coincidence this was the only year he actually led the Patriots to the Super Bowl.
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1041

He got the OC gig in Jacksonville and helped Brunell significantly cut down on his INT's too. Brunell's too highest QB ratings to date were with Palmer at his side. http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1032

There is really no questioning his resume on offense.
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Old 06-02-2004   #8
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Perhaps some of the issue that we are experincing is that we have an OC that is offensivly orientated and a Head Coach that is defensivly orientated. That has to cause a bit of schisophrinia (sp) on how the team operates, particularly at the phylisophical (sp) level. We have a OC trying to figure out how to be conservative in his calls when he is by nature more open offensive minded.
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Old 06-02-2004   #9
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Originally Posted by TheOgre
I disagree. He was part of some very productive offenses in Houston, New England, and Jacksonville before getting the head coaching gig in Cleveland.

There is really no questioning his resume on offense.
Are you disagreeing with anyone questioning Palmer's resume or are you questioning whether anyone has questioned Palmer's resume? You make some points regarding Palmer's coaching history. But, he has had critics in the past. I'll link some if you want, but what's the point?

Palmer was the WR coach with the Oilers, and the R&S put up big numbers. When you have guys like Jeffires, Givens, & Hill, it's hard not to be successful. Did that make the Oiler offense a great offense? No, it was very flawed and was exposed in the playoffs.

Palmer is credited with doing an excellent job working with Bledsoe (By Bledsoe himself as well). But, Palmer was never the OC at New England. Most people think that it was "no coincidence" that Bledsoe only got to the Super Bowl with Bill Parcells as his head coach.

Palmer's offenses in Jax faired very well. But he did have a top O-line anchored by one of the great tackles in NFL history, a premier set of WRs in Smith & McCardell, an excellent pair of RB's in Taylor & Stewart, and an athletic, strong-armed QB in his prime in Brunell. And he was running virtually the same offense his buddy Kevin Gilbride did the previous year when the Jags went the AFC Championship game. It's not as if he turned a bunch of scrubs into a fine tuned unit.

Of course Palmer's offense stunk in Cleveland. No surprise, they were an expansion team. How much was it Palmer, how much the players? Who knows, who cares? Palmer has been an OC for 6 seasons total. 2 good seasons with Pro Bowl caliber players. 4 not so good seasons with expansion teams. Pretty much what you'd expect. When Palmer has a good O-line, a outstanding group of skilled position players, and a top QB...he becomes a genius. Here's to hoping that Palmer reaches genius status again this season.
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Old 06-01-2004   #10
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Some guys are down on Palmer. I like him. He is optimistic and creative. He is the best guy for the job and has a stellar record to boot. Players like and respect him and he is as straight up as they get. He'll say it right to you.

Accept some resumes that are floating out there right now at the college and NFL level and find a better candidate for offensive coordinator. Who is more qualified? Someone quoted the stats from Jacksonville in 97-99, I think that those numbers stand for themselves. Capers and Casserly know what he is capable of with the right mix - *that* is why he is our OC right.

We are going into our 3rd year. We are still coming out of infancy and just reaching 'toddlerhood'. There are teams with more superbowl wins under their belt then we have in seasons. This is a tough hill to climb. How do we compete with a team that is 20 years old? Tampa didn't win many games for a long time and only in recent years have been successful. I think that some analysts now see them as a legitimate contender Some people point out that CP did not accomplish much with the Browns when he was there. That is just crazy talk. Weren't they a new franchise at the time too? Plus he was the head coach not the offensive coordinator - He has a different role with the Texans then he did with the Browns.

The offensive players on the Texans are also the guys that Palmer scouted for a full year prior to the 2002 Draft and put in his influence throughout the selection process. These are his guys. This is essentailly his baby and a project that he is ready to show more of what it can do.
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Old 06-01-2004   #11
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For most fans the right time for a trick play is when it works and the wrong time is when it fails.
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Old 06-01-2004   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DominatorDavis
...Some people point out that CP did not accomplish much with the Browns when he was there. That is just crazy talk. Weren't they a new franchise at the time too? Plus he was the head coach not the offensive coordinator...
Palmer was also the OC for the Browns. Crazy or not, Palmer was fired. Whether the Browns lack of success was Palmers fault or not, it wasn't a high point in his career.

You and others like Palmer, some don't, some are on the fence. It really doesn't matter what success or failure Palmer has had in the past. Right now, he's the offensive coordinator of the Houston Texans and will be for the foreseeable future. It's the success of this offense that Palmer will be judged on here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DominatorDavis
The offensive players on the Texans are also the guys that Palmer scouted for a full year prior to the 2002 Draft and put in his influence throughout the selection process. These are his guys. This is essentailly his baby and a project that he is ready to show more of what it can do.
This paragraph is the bottom line on Palmer's future. This is "his baby" and I agree he'll be more aggressive this season due to the experience gained and the talent collected.
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Old 06-01-2004   #13
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the key statement in the last quote was Palmer had a full year to scout for us prior to draft. With the Browns I believe he had about 2 weeks to scout and assemble his staff or something to that effect. What I can remember is that it wasn't long
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Old 06-01-2004   #14
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I don't think too many of us have actually seen the Palmer playbook for real to project what it will be like when "opened up". The last time I remember him with full throttle on the offense was in Cleveland...and I don't remember it being a barn burner so to speak.

I easily admit that we were painfully conservative sometimes last year...in fact, I remember screaming at the TV a couple times last year in the close ones to go for the kill shot. I am hoping that we simply get more aggressive, particularly in the 2nd half if we are up or in striking distance.
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Old 06-01-2004   #15
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Capers lets Palmer act on his own for the most part but he's still plugged into the loop and has veto power over any play.

As far as opening up the playbook, I'd settle for a few third down conversions and sustained drives. Blow some people of the ball or finesse them to death, I don't care, just execute the plays like they are supposed to be executed and convert a few third downs for a change.

Palmer ran a very potent Jags offense in 97 and 98. They were 7th in the NFL in 97, and 11th in 98 in total yards. Brunell, Jimmy Smith and Keenan McCardell were the horses both years. Fred Taylor arrived in 98 and had over 1000 yards. They didn't have much of a running game in 97.

Last edited by aj.; 06-01-2004 at 12:18 PM.
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Old 06-01-2004   #16
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Chris Palmer's got to go....IMO.
Not really but my goodness.......open up the playbook for crying out loud!
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Old 06-01-2004   #17
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You can't "open up the playbook" when you can't excute simple plays.
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Old 06-01-2004   #18
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But but on Madden...
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Old 06-01-2004   #19
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Hopefully our playbook will be opened and we will throw more deep passes or see more play-action. Last year I remember running around the house yelling because they called a draw on 3rd and long.
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Old 06-01-2004   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBTexans08
Chris Palmer's got to go....IMO.
Not really but my goodness.......open up the playbook for crying out loud!
Steve Francis needs to be shipped out on the first train to Nowhere. Dotel needs to be canned. Tim Redding needs to be demoted to AAA...oh wait.

Any other overplayed fan cry I left out?
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