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Old 09-30-2008   #1
Texanmike02
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Default Perspective

Is it just me or are we having this kind of apocalyptic panic every time we play a string of teams that is decidedly better than are?

The long and short of this team is this. We are the Titans of the late 90's early 2000's. We are getting close. I don't think this is a team that will slowly climb from 7 wins to 12 or 13. This team, to me, will be a 7 winish team (8 or 9 is an outside possibility) for a couple of years (read that this and maybe next... though I really think next year will be a 11 or 12 win season). We have talent in a lot of places. We are missing talent in some key places. Add 3 or 4 guys to this defense and its instantly a vastly different team. I realize that you can say that about most teams... but you can actually do that in an off season.

I think the offense is much closer to what we saw in week 4 than what we saw in weeks 1 and 2. Its on defense that we need a few VERY key pieces to this puzzle. Plug in a big guy in the middle of the line. Replace greenwood. Get a real cover corner. This team is instantly better. Its nice to talk about how we didn't address the needs of this team last year or the year before last, but like everything else in football, its about small progressions keeping the situation manageable.

After the 2-14 season you weren't going to look up and go 13-3. You weren't going to go 10-6. You look to make up ground. Overhaul the OL (vastly different the next year and even more different the following year... now with brown we will finally get some continuity on the line and you guys will be amazed at what that does). Bring in a few components to build on, mario, demeco. Now you have manageable goals for the next year. Add some more pieces, if you can't add starters, add . Look at the roster turnover between years 1 and two of Kubes.

If you can't add starters, add depth. We've taken some gambles. Some haven't paid off (JJ yet) others have. Slaton on the other hand seems to be well on his way to paying off. JJ isn't bad depth, that's for sure. On DL, look at the posibility of having Mario,AO,TJ, and maybe Okam, if he develops (if not, another big guy in the middle) in the rotation. I'm a fan of turning AO into a DE at least part time, switching he and Mario and letting them stunt the hell out of the T/G.

There are bright spots for this team. I originally had us going 9-7... I bought into the hype so to speak because I think this is a 7-8 win team. Its a better team than last years, but its going to have some growing pains. We saw that in Pittsburgh. That was a disaster. We saw that on the punt return.. young players getting turned around... new players not sure of assignments... we'll see it again. Likely for a long time.


Not a fan of Smith's? I'm not saying I am president of his fan club. But I'm not president of the fire him club. Its pretty hard to run a defense when you're over matched talent wise. This just in.... we are over matched. Kind of hard to stop the run by scheming for it when your DL is undersized. I know we've got Okam but he's not ready. Not now. That's why he was a 6th rounder instead of a 2nd rounder.

The bottom line, is this is a team to wait on. How long did Tenn wait on mediocrity before coming dominant. I think we're that same kind of team. I see us putting people in poisition to play in this league for a long long time. If we're not vastly better by the middle of next year, starting to look like a 10+ win team... then its time to panic.

Mike
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Old 10-01-2008   #2
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Default Re: Perspective

You beat me to it. I couldnt agree more.

I was as upset as anyone after each of our first 3 losses. But really what did we expect? There is no way we were going to start off this season looking good. People will say yeh but we shouldn’t of looked as bad as we have. BS!! First off we have 3 NEW starters on our offensive line. One is a ROOKIE, our LT (considered the most important position on the line). We have a NEW OL coach teaching a NEW system that (and this is very important) cannot be fully practiced against our D because of possible injuries to our DL.

You cant practice cut blocking like you can a power run blocking scheme. That alone will cause a big learning curve. Throw in the fact that we started the season off against the friken Pittsburg Steelers, Titans and the Jaguars all on the road. Three of the top Defenses in the NFL. I have to say the way our OL played against the Jags really impressed me. Sure they didn’t dominate but they showed more improvement over the last couple of weeks than anyone realistically could of expected.

On defense if you look at the personnel you have to question whether the coach is really at fault. We have an undersized Dline that just isn’t equipped to stop the run. We have average OLB’s and young secondary. Hell you could put all pros at both corner spots and they would still get burned because we cannot get pressure on the QB. Im not starting a KEEP Richard Smith movement but really what is he supposed to do with the hand that has been dealt to him? You say develop a identity? We have one. We are an undersized slow outside young defense that needs some impact players in key positions to compliment the good ones we have.

I still believe this team is heading in the right direction. We have improved every week and now we can take that improvement and work on it at home for the next 4 weeks. Say Im drinking the coolaid or whatever you want. I am going to root for this team just as passionately as I have since day one. I believe after this home stand most of you will to.
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Old 10-01-2008   #3
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Default Re: Perspective

this is a superb thread. I think a lot of people get caught in our microwave society...but yes, this team is looking like it has a future. You couldn't say that before...yes, we want wins now, and they will come. But as far as bigger and better things, we're on our way. Great posts!
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Old 10-01-2008   #4
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Default Re: Perspective

"Not a fan of Smith's? I'm not saying I am president of his fan club. But I'm not president of the fire him club. Its pretty hard to run a defense when you're over matched talent wise. This just in.... we are over matched. Kind of hard to stop the run by scheming for it when your DL is undersized. I know we've got Okam but he's not ready. Not now. That's why he was a 6th rounder instead of a 2nd rounder. "


So Smith's excuse for consistently fielding one of the worst Ds on Sundays is talent? Tell me, how bad are we talent wise that poor Richard cant seem to even field a competitive unit for 3 years running?

Look at Jim Schwartz in Tenn. That defense was last in the league after 06. Then last year they're top 5, this year they look like the best unit in the league thus far. Were there any major additions? No, although they did lose their best CB Pacman Jones...

I wonder if COACHING had anything to do with that change?!?!?! If we cant expect our DC to get the defense to play like overachievers then he shouldn't be our DC.

PS: Okam was a 5th rounder.
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Old 10-01-2008   #5
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Default Re: Perspective

Just wait until next year.

Next year we could easily have two more new offensive lineman. That will be a good (though often used) excuse to wait until the year after that until the line is any good. By that time Pitts might be showing his mileage and drop down from his averge self.

Given health and a between the tackles running back, the rest of the offense might be good. It will still depend on that re-gelling line though. Johnson might be slowing down by the time that gets fixed. If so, his will have been an incredibly wasted career.

The defense has a long way to go in talent and coaching. If the Texans need bigger defensive lineman, why did they waste such a high pick on a small one? That is lack of direction.

Can a team with no defensive direction replace almost all of its defensive backs and outside linebackers in a year or two? Doubtful when they can't even get up the nerve to replace a failed defensive coordinator when they already have one on staff to replace him. Smith should have been let go this summer, but he got 'one more year'.

Next year. One more year. Just wait and see.

Nice bromides, but not very proactive.

Comparing the Texans to teams that struggle and then find succes is all well and good. However, they are more similar to a team that struggles year after year and never have much success beyond a playoff loss every ten years or so before plunging back down to irrelevance.
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Old 10-01-2008   #6
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Default Re: Perspective

TexanMike said:
"Is it just me or are we having this kind of apocalyptic panic every time we play a string of teams that is decidedly better than are?"


Therein lies the problem. After 7 years and 3 years of Kubiak probably 13 of the 16 games we play are against teams better than us.
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Old 10-01-2008   #7
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Default Re: Perspective

Reminds me of the movie Groundhog Day. Only instead of a day it's a year. Over and over and over again. We are stuck in the black hole of mediocrity. Every time we begin to "go to the light" we get yanked back down.

I like the optimism though. Although, it might be a matter of time before it starts wearing thin, if it hasn't already.
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Old 10-01-2008   #8
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Default Re: Perspective

I will paraphrase the Sage of Hampton

Quote:
It's easy to sum it up if you're just talking about perspective. We're sitting here, and I'm supposed to be a fan, and we're talking about perspective. I mean listen, we're sitting here talking about perspective, not a game, not a game, not a game, but we're talking about perspective. Not the game that I go out there and cheer, travel for and pay every game like it's my last but we're talking about perspective man. How silly is that?

Now I know that I'm supposed to lead by example and all that but I'm not shoving that aside like it don't mean anything. I know it's important, I honestly do but we're talking about perspective. We're talking about perspective man. We're talking about perspective. We're talking about perspective. We're not talking about the game. We're talking about perspective. When you come to the stadium, and you see me cheer, you've seen me cheer right, you've seen me give everything I've got, but we're talking about perspective right now.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/bas...on_transcript/
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Old 10-01-2008   #9
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Default Re: Perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texanmike View Post
If we're not vastly better by the middle of next year, starting to look like a 10+ win team... then its time to panic.

Mike
Isn't that pretty much what we said last year?
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Old 10-01-2008   #10
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Default Re: Perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by maddogmrb View Post
Isn't that pretty much what we said last year?
that's what YOU said last year... I was perfectly well aware that this team is not a finished product. I've said every year, I expect improvement... I'm always the one everyone says "stop being so negative" to. At the beginning of the season I said this team had too many holes to compete and was an 8 or 9 win team. I also said it was more likely that we win fewer than 8 games than it was that we win 10.

Quote:
I'm going with 9-7. Its better than before I sat down and analyzed the schedule but I'm worried about 2 games, Cincy and Oak. Cincy because man they should be able to put up some points this year. I know about Chad, but I think he had a bad year. He'll be back.... and TJ WHOSYOMAMMA... our DBs are going to really struggle that game IMHO. With Oakland. Any team that can play defense can hang around. Those are the two pitfalls I can see. I think we will jump up and surprise too so I think 8-8 or 9-7. I don't see us doing much better or worse because there are as many winalble games as there are loseable games. Now the usual injury disclaimer applies.
A lot of people are mad because this team is what it is. This isn't the colts at 1-2. This is a team that is very average who is 0-3. Sit down. Rank the teams from 1-32. I bet you don't get past 10 before you've put all the teams we've played in there. Its the perfect storm folks. We start with a well coached very prepared 3-4 defense. Then we get a titans team that is better than anyone imagined (I think I just threw up in my mouth a lil) and then a Jags team who everyone knows is always half a step behind the top tier teams in the league. Oh and they were road games.

The team looks better every week. Our defense will hamper us throughout the year though. We're just not yet there. But if you don't see the pieces starting to fall in place... you're watching from a 11-5 perspective instead of reality.

Mike
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Old 10-02-2008   #11
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Default Re: Perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texanmike View Post
that's what YOU said last year...
Mike
Actually no, that is not what I said last year. I said they would be lucky to duplicate their record if they didn't substantially upgrade the defense in the offseason.

I appreciate your optimism but, if you look at our schedule please tell me which teams we are decidely better than and should be a "no doubt" victory for us. IMO, that would be none! Therefore, we are still in the bottom 4th of our league and it is a stretch to call us an "average" team.
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Old 10-02-2008   #12
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Default Re: Perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by maddogmrb View Post
Actually no, that is not what I said last year. I said they would be lucky to duplicate their record if they didn't substantially upgrade the defense in the offseason.

I appreciate your optimism but, if you look at our schedule please tell me which teams we are decidely better than and should be a "no doubt" victory for us. IMO, that would be none! Therefore, we are still in the bottom 4th of our league and it is a stretch to call us an "average" team.
Perhaps I have not made it clear. I'm not calling this a playoff year. I'm saying that those that were, will be disappointed. I'm saying that this is still a building year and that we have added significant pieces to the puzzle. I just don't think that we're as bad as we've looked, I also don't think we're as good as many thought that we were. I think this is a 7-9 win team.

Mike
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Old 10-03-2008   #13
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Default Re: Perspective

in my stronger moments i'm reminded to go over to ht.com and look at our roster and sort the names by number of years in the league. it's refreshing to remember that 70% of our team is in it's 3rd or 4th year. our oline are babies, we could get alot better with the players we have.

in my weaker moments, until we change DC's and get more talented players....
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Old 10-01-2008   #14
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Default Re: Perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texanmike View Post
Is it just me or are we having this kind of apocalyptic panic every time we play a string of teams that is decidedly better than are?

The long and short of this team is this. We are the Titans of the late 90's early 2000's. We are getting close. I don't think this is a team that will slowly climb from 7 wins to 12 or 13. This team, to me, will be a 7 winish team (8 or 9 is an outside possibility) for a couple of years (read that this and maybe next... though I really think next year will be a 11 or 12 win season). We have talent in a lot of places. We are missing talent in some key places. Add 3 or 4 guys to this defense and its instantly a vastly different team. I realize that you can say that about most teams... but you can actually do that in an off season.

I think the offense is much closer to what we saw in week 4 than what we saw in weeks 1 and 2. Its on defense that we need a few VERY key pieces to this puzzle. Plug in a big guy in the middle of the line. Replace greenwood. Get a real cover corner. This team is instantly better. Its nice to talk about how we didn't address the needs of this team last year or the year before last, but like everything else in football, its about small progressions keeping the situation manageable.

After the 2-14 season you weren't going to look up and go 13-3. You weren't going to go 10-6. You look to make up ground. Overhaul the OL (vastly different the next year and even more different the following year... now with brown we will finally get some continuity on the line and you guys will be amazed at what that does). Bring in a few components to build on, mario, demeco. Now you have manageable goals for the next year. Add some more pieces, if you can't add starters, add . Look at the roster turnover between years 1 and two of Kubes.

If you can't add starters, add depth. We've taken some gambles. Some haven't paid off (JJ yet) others have. Slaton on the other hand seems to be well on his way to paying off. JJ isn't bad depth, that's for sure. On DL, look at the posibility of having Mario,AO,TJ, and maybe Okam, if he develops (if not, another big guy in the middle) in the rotation. I'm a fan of turning AO into a DE at least part time, switching he and Mario and letting them stunt the hell out of the T/G.

There are bright spots for this team. I originally had us going 9-7... I bought into the hype so to speak because I think this is a 7-8 win team. Its a better team than last years, but its going to have some growing pains. We saw that in Pittsburgh. That was a disaster. We saw that on the punt return.. young players getting turned around... new players not sure of assignments... we'll see it again. Likely for a long time.


Not a fan of Smith's? I'm not saying I am president of his fan club. But I'm not president of the fire him club. Its pretty hard to run a defense when you're over matched talent wise. This just in.... we are over matched. Kind of hard to stop the run by scheming for it when your DL is undersized. I know we've got Okam but he's not ready. Not now. That's why he was a 6th rounder instead of a 2nd rounder.

The bottom line, is this is a team to wait on. How long did Tenn wait on mediocrity before coming dominant. I think we're that same kind of team. I see us putting people in poisition to play in this league for a long long time. If we're not vastly better by the middle of next year, starting to look like a 10+ win team... then its time to panic.

Mike
who the hell are you?
and what did you do with TexanMike???

Actually, I don't think its true panic. Its more frustration than anything else.
We're frustrated with the defense that can't hold anyone under 30 pts. We're frustrated with dumb decisions that cost us chances we can't afford to lose. We're frustrated with guys who haven't hit the same level of play they were at last year. We're frustrated with the fact that Ahman Green is still drawing a paycheck.

Its not panic. Its frustration.
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Old 10-01-2008   #15
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Default Re: Perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
who the hell are you?
and what did you do with TexanMike???

Actually, I don't think its true panic. Its more frustration than anything else.
We're frustrated with the defense that can't hold anyone under 30 pts. We're frustrated with dumb decisions that cost us chances we can't afford to lose. We're frustrated with guys who haven't hit the same level of play they were at last year. We're frustrated with the fact that Ahman Green is still drawing a paycheck.

Its not panic. Its frustration.
I haven't changed, the team has. I try to stay pretty even keeled. When ya'll are too high... I try to dampen the euphoria, because we're not there yet.. when ya'll get too low... I try to bring it back up. As much as I enjoy getting lost in euphoria and hate drowning in dispair on sundays, once the game is over, I enjoy being objective. Maybe that's why I'm such a content fan lol

Mike
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