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Old 04-26-2007   #1
Bipolar The Titan
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If the Texans were just gonna dump Carr anyways, why didn't they draft Young when they had the chance? Williams is a good pick I guess but if they were just going to turn around and "upgrade" at qb the next year, why wouldn't the Texans just take Young? Doesn't make sense to me.

At what point did the Texans decide they were going another direction at qb? Was it after the last years draft? Also, what was up with Carr's contract? I mean, was it up, did he want a crazy extentsion or what? Why isn't Young a Texan? Seems like the logical choice.
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Old 04-26-2007   #2
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If the Texans were just gonna dump Carr anyways, why didn't they draft Young when they had the chance? Williams is a good pick I guess but if they were just going to turn around and "upgrade" at qb the next year, why wouldn't the Texans just take Young? Doesn't make sense to me.

At what point did the Texans decide they were going another direction at qb? Was it after the last years draft? Also, what was up with Carr's contract? I mean, was it up, did he want a crazy extentsion or what? Why isn't Young a Texan? Seems like the logical choice.
Because before last year's draft the Texans were already set at the QB position. Carr was the face of the franchise and the man of the future. Carr just never had a chance to success due to bad coaching and Kubiak was going to get him going in the right direction. Any fan that said other wise was just a UT homer or had no clue about football.
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Old 04-27-2007   #3
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that's a good question.

But in all honesty, what makes you think Vince Young was the highest rated QB on their board?

He sure showed a lot last year, but just because he went to UT and is from Houston isn't why you take a QB #1. If you are really asking this from a football standpoint...you should include Matt Leinart too. I feel VY is in the debate mostly because he's from houston and did well after the fact, during his rookie campaign in the nfl.
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Old 04-27-2007   #4
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This is not the official Texans message board, so I would have thought the mods would be more proactive regarding Titans trolls.
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Old 04-27-2007   #5
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This is not the official Texans message board, so I would have thought the mods would be more proactive regarding Titans trolls.
for what it's worth pal, this thread was moved to this area. I don't intend to be running smack or trolling or whatever you have perceived me to be up until this point. If you were to review my brief posting history on this forum it would become obvious to you that my intention here is purely coversational and informational. I find last years draft scenario interesting. I want to talk to the Texans fans about it and get their take.

I find the comment about being "set" at qb last year very interesting.

what I would like to know know, hindsight 20-20...
Would Houston be better off with Leinart, Cutler, or Young?
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Old 04-27-2007   #6
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I find the comment about being "set" at qb last year very interesting.

what I would like to know know, hindsight 20-20...
Would Houston be better off with Leinart, Cutler, or Young?
It's because McNair was too meddling and had an unnatural love for David Carr that hurt the franchise...that's my take on the whole deal.

Of course they would have been better off dumping Carr last year and drafting a QB...but you can't rewind this stuff. It is what it is and we move forward. Beating this like a dead horse over and over and over is kinda troll-like though...I will say that much on behalf of Marcus. I know you have been around enough to see the redundant threads on this.
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Old 04-27-2007   #7
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I agree with Vinny but i think it's also hard to let your #1 overall pick walk away without compensation, which they would have done last year if they hadn't picked up his extension. I know they did the same thing this year, after paying him a lot more money but without a good look at the guy, I doubt Kubiak would be confident in saying "Yup. Get rid of him."

As for who they'd be better with? I don't know, but I'd say out of the three of them, Schaub most closely compares to Leinart. So Leinart.
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Old 04-27-2007   #8
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I hope this ends up being an isolated incedent ( Mcnair coddling Carr ). You can't run a team with your heart .

I think Carr could have been OK in the right enviroment but he was not a cornerstone player . They needed a lead dog to set the bar high ... it ended up pretty laid back around the Texans camp .

This was really evident when Glenn , Sharper , and Walker left . After that it seemed the fire was gone .... 2-14 geez ... I might have cut them all after that .
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Old 04-27-2007   #9
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It's because McNair was too meddling and had an unnatural love for David Carr that hurt the franchise...that's my take on the whole deal.

Of course they would have been better off dumping Carr last year and drafting a QB...but you can't rewind this stuff. It is what it is and we move forward. Beating this like a dead horse over and over and over is kinda troll-like though...I will say that much on behalf of Marcus. I know you have been around enough to see the redundant threads on this.
you give me too much credit. I haven't really seen those threads. I'm sure they are there. ok... for anyone who wants to entertain some "out there" hypotheticals... Peyton Manning... I'm sure we can all agree that he has been the nfl's best qb the past 5 years. Suppose Peyton Manning is the Texans qb since 2002... take a deep breath, I know... but just say Carr never was a Texan... instead you had Peyton Manning. Do you think Manning, Mr. Immobile would have been able to acccomplish anything much more than Carr, given the set of circumstances that Carr had to deal with?

Don't brand me troll for asking this question... it's just interesting to "shoot the breeze" in this way... I'm not trying to engage in a peeing contest here with you good people... just trying to find some acceptance through thoughtful, intelligent posting. I can tell by the landscape of this mb that there is no place for the hard core smack, so I will of course save you that, although I do have a reputation for such communication... it's just that I have a policy of "when in rome"... here I am respectful in the way the community wants it because I want to participate.

So, would P-Man take you to the promised land?

follow up question... what do you say if it turns out Carr has a monster year with the Panthers? What then?
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Old 04-27-2007   #10
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I wasn't trying to brand anyone a troll, but I did refer to the redundant cascade of this never-ending subject...a trolling type situtation. I told Marcus to let us take care of it and I've seen enough redundant threads about this to understand his pov. I "troll" on some subjects...it's all good.
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Old 04-27-2007   #11
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you give me too much credit. I haven't really seen those threads. I'm sure they are there. ok... for anyone who wants to entertain some "out there" hypotheticals... Peyton Manning... I'm sure we can all agree that he has been the nfl's best qb the past 5 years. Suppose Peyton Manning is the Texans qb since 2002... take a deep breath, I know... but just say Carr never was a Texan... instead you had Peyton Manning. Do you think Manning, Mr. Immobile would have been able to acccomplish anything much more than Carr, given the set of circumstances that Carr had to deal with?

Don't brand me troll for asking this question... it's just interesting to "shoot the breeze" in this way... I'm not trying to engage in a peeing contest here with you good people... just trying to find some acceptance through thoughtful, intelligent posting. I can tell by the landscape of this mb that there is no place for the hard core smack, so I will of course save you that, although I do have a reputation for such communication... it's just that I have a policy of "when in rome"... here I am respectful in the way the community wants it because I want to participate.

So, would P-Man take you to the promised land?

follow up question... what do you say if it turns out Carr has a monster year with the Panthers? What then?
No, but we would've been better and probably made the playoffs before now.

One thing that should be mentioned is that we have (had, whatever) higher draft picks this year as a result of a 6-10 season that could've been better if we'd chosen Leinart, for instance. So, we got something back in the form of 2007 draft picks--and we still have Mario, so these things don't kill you forever. Only thing for sure is that LAST YEAR we would have had a better team with Leinart or Young.

On Carr and the Panthers: I hope that does happen, but, even if it does, it won't be for a few years. Carr needs to be coached up a lot. He's been coached badly for years, and Kubiak couldn't believe how unNFL ready he was. If it did happen that soon (I'd be shocked first off), I'd say that David Carr needed a new home REALLY BAD, because it wouldn't have happened nearly that fast around here.
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Old 04-27-2007   #12
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ok... for anyone who wants to entertain some "out there" hypotheticals... Peyton Manning... I'm sure we can all agree that he has been the nfl's best qb the past 5 years. Suppose Peyton Manning is the Texans qb since 2002... take a deep breath, I know... but just say Carr never was a Texan... instead you had Peyton Manning. Do you think Manning, Mr. Immobile would have been able to acccomplish anything much more than Carr, given the set of circumstances that Carr had to deal with?
This is just my opinion, and I'm not a "Carr hater" (or "homer" for that matter)...

But Manning is world's above Carr as a QB. Where do we start? PM can make pre-snap reads and make adjustments, Carr couldn't. PM can audible hot routes to take advantage of match ups with the D (no doubt from his extensive viewing of game film), DC didn't. PM can feel the rush and step up into the pocket, making precision throws off of one foot a second before getting hit. He knows where his #2, #3, and #4 options are and how to get the ball to them in stride so they can rack up YAC.

Carr is a mediocre QB, at best. This isn't a slam any more than saying Brad Johnson or Trent Dilfer are mediocre QBs (both have rings, btw). He just is who he is, and a look at his college scouting report reveals that he is the same player today as he was 5 years ago. Blame it on coaching, poor offensive line, Carr's head, all of the above, whatever, but he is not a player that will make vast strides in improving his game.

As far as my take of Carr in Carolina....I'd venture that their offensive line will look a whole lot worse when he starts taking snaps.
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Old 05-01-2007   #13
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..."out there" hypotheticals... Peyton Manning... I'm sure we can all agree that he has been the nfl's best qb the past 5 years. Suppose Peyton Manning is the Texans qb since 2002... take a deep breath, I know... but just say Carr never was a Texan... instead you had Peyton Manning. Do you think Manning, Mr. Immobile would have been able to acccomplish anything much more than Carr, given the set of circumstances that Carr had to deal with?
...
Manning probably would have gotten hurt.
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Old 05-01-2007   #14
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you give me too much credit. I haven't really seen those threads. I'm sure they are there. ok... for anyone who wants to entertain some "out there" hypotheticals... Peyton Manning... I'm sure we can all agree that he has been the nfl's best qb the past 5 years. Suppose Peyton Manning is the Texans qb since 2002... take a deep breath, I know... but just say Carr never was a Texan... instead you had Peyton Manning. Do you think Manning, Mr. Immobile would have been able to acccomplish anything much more than Carr, given the set of circumstances that Carr had to deal with?
I see what you're getting at. You're asking are we smart enough to know that a guy getting sacked over 200 times in 4 years means the OL sucks.

well, we know that we have protection issues. But the most honest guys here will tell you about the fresno tuck, they'll tell you about the fetal position, they'll tell you about the times our QB tripped on his own two feet, and just waited for the defense to jump on him.

Not like that play where Vince tripped on his own feet, then jumped up and threw a pretty dang good pass to Drew Bennette(I think it was Bennette) but Faggins just jumped in front of him and took that ball away.

Or when Plummer ate the dirt in our preseason game, but he bounced up and threw like a 30 yard strike.

Our guy layed there, and took the sack.

People around here want to be nice, but if you count all the times David pulled the ball back in (on a three step drop no less) that ended up in sacks, then half of his sacks in 2006 were on him.
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follow up question... what do you say if it turns out Carr has a monster year with the Panthers? What then?

I'd say it took getting cut for him to wake up and start playing football.

Now let me ask you this. What would you say, if Benette, Wade, Henry & Brown go on to the ProBowl, and all of them make it to the play-offs, while you & Vince watch from Hooters?? What then?? How would you feel if David Givens is out for another season??

Y'know, stuff happens. We all make questionable decisions that don't work out the way we planned(Chris Brown... Lendale White.. PacMan Jones).. no reason to keep bringing it up.
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Old 04-27-2007   #15
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This is not the official Texans message board, so I would have thought the mods would be more proactive regarding Titans trolls.
I may be more proactive on you....keep it to the thread or find another thread to participate in. We got the moderation handled thankyouverymuch.
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Old 04-27-2007   #16
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If the Texans were just gonna dump Carr anyways, why didn't they draft Young when they had the chance? Williams is a good pick I guess but if they were just going to turn around and "upgrade" at qb the next year, why wouldn't the Texans just take Young? Doesn't make sense to me.

At what point did the Texans decide they were going another direction at qb? Was it after the last years draft? Also, what was up with Carr's contract? I mean, was it up, did he want a crazy extentsion or what? Why isn't Young a Texan? Seems like the logical choice.
The answer to your question is they didn't yet know that Carr wasn't a great QB about to emerge, and they screwed up royally. Nothing against Williams, but they did. Just keep in mind that they might've taken Leinart instead. I'd be happy with either one of those two QBs and our second round pick back this year and next (Schaub trade) for losing Williams. They screwed up, but Williams is no slouch, had a bad foot last year, and will be a force to reckon with this coming year.
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Old 04-27-2007   #17
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They screwed up, but Williams is no slouch, had a bad foot last year, and will be a force to reckon with this coming year.
I am concerned about Williams foot. Those types of things can become chronic for a career. Have there been any updates down there on his condition?
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Old 04-27-2007   #18
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I am concerned about Williams foot. Those types of things can become chronic for a career. Have there been any updates down there on his condition?
There was a podiatrist on one of the radio shows this week that said plantar fasciatis is not a chronic issue. Once you get it totally healed, there is no reason to expect a repeat. No personal knowledge but that is what was said.
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Old 04-27-2007   #19
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There was a podiatrist on one of the radio shows this week that said plantar fasciatis is not a chronic issue. Once you get it totally healed, there is no reason to expect a repeat. No personal knowledge but that is what was said.
Although there are rare occasions that plantar fasciitis can re-occur and become an issue, you are correct that it is not typically a chronic issue.(personal knowledge)... However, if the plantar fasciitis is not treated - with rest, it can develop into other issues, from favoring that particular foot..
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Old 04-27-2007   #20
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I thought the Young debate had long gone away by now, but I'll bite....

Say we did take Young. We'd have Young and let's say the #19 pick in this year's draft like th Titans do.

Instead, we took Mario and we have the #10 pick. You COULD argue that a desperate team would be willing to trade a 2007 and 2008 2nd round picks to move from 19 to 10. Denver seems to be willing to move from 21 to 10 for a 2nd and a 3rd this year.

So, you could easily argue that the Young comparison becomes, which would you rather have:

Vince Young VS. Mario Williams AND Matt Schaub.

Schaub won't ever be the electrifying playmaker that Vince is, but he could end up being a much better pocket QB and to boot, we have Mario Williams. We won't ever know the grade of the '06 draft until we know how both Mario and Matt turn out.
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