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Old 10-13-2004   #1
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Default Do we really need to draft ILB?

I posted this here because its about Texans, not about "future stars of the NFL".. but I understand if ya move it. on to the post.



Well on a whim, since ive seen so many people mention us drafting at ILB, I decided to check on the average age of LBs in the NFL. It was harder to find than I thought.. and I dont have a concrete answer.. but as far as i can tell.. we are not suffering from old age at ILB.

Sharper has been in the NFL for 8 years, Foreman for 6. Ray Lewis, the most dominating LB in the league has been playing for 9 years, and I think it is safe to say he wont be retiring too quickly. Junior Seau has been playing for 15! years.

So then.. I would say we have AT LEAST 3 more years of Sharper, and PLENTY of time with Foreman.

Alot of people also talk about replacing Foreman.. well the guy is WELL above average and seems to be getting better every year. I thought he was more of a vet than than that.. but he has only been playing 6 years and honestly he could still improve even more. Currently he is ranked just a little bit above Sharper. I know.. yall all say that the difference isnt in statistics, but in how much more sharper seems to dominate. Well.. you cant have an all-star playmaker at every position, and Foreman is honestly on the verge of making that step into the "all-star" spotlight. He is growing on me more and more as I watch him play. he is a quality ILB.

I say forget about ILB.. if we want to draft for depth.. do it on the second day of the draft. Our ILBs are just fine as they are and we have more important needs right now.
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Old 10-13-2004   #2
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Originally Posted by Grid

Our ILBs are just fine as they are and we have more important needs right now.
I agree , the Texans have plenty to work with at the linebacker position . Day one of the draft should lean twards the D-Line and secondary (Coleman mostlikely wont be a texan next season) or possibly another reciever (Bradford will find it tough to get the same kind of money he's getting now , either he accepts a pay-cut and worse than that loss of some playing time to Armstrong or he finds a new team) . O-line depth is ALWAYS as well .
In this years draft i expect the Texans to take BPA or possibly trade up if someone just knocks their socks off , they wont be drafting because of need like in previous years.
The draft is one of my favorite things about football, lots to speculate on , second guess the managment and so on .
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Old 10-13-2004   #3
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well id expect BDPA (best defensive player available).. unless an offensive juggernaut just falls into our lap.


will we REALLY be getting rid of Coleman though? 9 years in the NFL so yah i suppose he is getting up there in years.. but he had a huge season last season.. and its possible he COULD be having a huge season this season if he wasnt learning a new position.

I dunno.. how big a cap hit would he be? would we be better off keeping him since Aaron Glenn cant be staying with us that much longer?

If we DO intend to let him go.. I kinda wish we would have put him on the market and traded him before the deadline.. he has been an AWESOME CB for us.. and I KNOW there are teams out there who would have given a 2nd rounder for him, maybe a 1st. We have Marlon Mcree (very underrated FS) backing him up. I guess we just cant afford to since we dont have anyone on the depth chart after Mcree.. and with Dunta Robinson starting at CB, we need the presence of Coleman. Honestly though.. I wish we would have just picked up a FS off free agency and traded Coleman... we can use the draft pick more than we need to be competeing for the playoffs at this point. But i imagine alot of fans would be in an uproar if we made a move like that, which would allude to us not taking the season seriously.

this is all conjecture though.. cause im not 100% positive that we intend to let him go.. I guess we will have a better idea depending on how he plays the rest of the season.
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Old 10-13-2004   #4
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Didn't Coleman just tie the record for lonest return in the NFL? Give him a few more games and I think you will be saying "We gotta resign this guy"
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Old 10-13-2004   #5
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Originally Posted by rittenhouserobz
Didn't Coleman just tie the record for lonest return in the NFL? Give him a few more games and I think you will be saying "We gotta resign this guy"
I dont want to run the guy out of town , not even close , my point is he is in a contract year and unless he takes a pay cut i dont see him staying with the Texans . I do like the options / flexability that Coleman gives . He very well could be that 6'2" nickle back Powda was talking about , with Mcree at safety in obvious passing situations . And you are absolutely correct in the statement that the smaller corners are being exploited but that is a league wide trend at this point .
Wonder if the coaches ever thought of putting Dunta at FS and move Coleman back to corner ? HE did play Safety his first two years in college , and has very good tackling skills not to mention serious closing speed . I suppose being the "Quarterback of the defense" is a bit much to ask of a rookie ? Being 5'10" 180 wouldnt be a stretch at the position , Blaine Bishop of the Titans a few years back was one of the best in the NFL during the prime of his carreer . If putting your best players on the field is a priority that would be an idea to ponder .
A player like Coleman gives the coaches a lot of flexability , its up to them to put it all to work . My only question come contract time is not "do we re-sign him" but is he worth the large contract he will command ? Can they afford him under the cap ?
Back to the draft .... D-line should be priority ONE . The games are won and lost in the trenches . Payne hasnt played up to the standard we have become accustomed to(he does have somewhat of an excuse, for this season at least) and Gary Walker was WAY OVERPAID , i doubt he has two good years left in him (always hurt). Plain and simple they have to get better against the run without commiting a safety to get better on D, no if's and's or but's.
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Old 10-13-2004   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grid
well id expect BDPA (best defensive player available).. unless an offensive juggernaut just falls into our lap.


will we REALLY be getting rid of Coleman though? 9 years in the NFL so yah i suppose he is getting up there in years.. but he had a huge season last season.. and its possible he COULD be having a huge season this season if he wasnt learning a new position.

I dunno.. how big a cap hit would he be? would we be better off keeping him since Aaron Glenn cant be staying with us that much longer?

If we DO intend to let him go.. I kinda wish we would have put him on the market and traded him before the deadline.. he has been an AWESOME CB for us.. and I KNOW there are teams out there who would have given a 2nd rounder for him, maybe a 1st. We have Marlon Mcree (very underrated FS) backing him up. I guess we just cant afford to since we dont have anyone on the depth chart after Mcree.. and with Dunta Robinson starting at CB, we need the presence of Coleman. Honestly though.. I wish we would have just picked up a FS off free agency and traded Coleman... we can use the draft pick more than we need to be competeing for the playoffs at this point. But i imagine alot of fans would be in an uproar if we made a move like that, which would allude to us not taking the season seriously.

this is all conjecture though.. cause im not 100% positive that we intend to let him go.. I guess we will have a better idea depending on how he plays the rest of the season.
I think the question with Coleman is will he resign with us? Resigning him as a safety may not be what he wants because CBs usually make more than safeties. Also, I am not sure if we wouldn't let Coleman go either because right behind him is Marlon Mcree who has been in this defense for two years and has played at a good level. Personally, I think Glenn is the one slipping these days. He has given up TDs in every game this year (Two against Minn alone). I like the guy but he could be loosing a step or two but the season is still young.
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Old 10-13-2004   #7
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one of those TDs on Glenn.. the receiver pushed off on him to get open and no flag was thrown.


I agree that we need to draft an LB, or two. But I think we need OLBs..not ILBs. We still need a dominating force in the pass rush.. maybe Babin will become one.. but im not seeing it yet. I look for us to get a tweener LB in the 3rd.

the first and second.. im expecting Dlinemen... maybe with both picks. Or possibly Dlineman and FS.. or DLineman and CB... or if some awesome offensive player falls into our laps in the first.. possibly only a Dlineman in the second.

All i know for sure is that we ARE gonna get us someone for the Dline.
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Old 10-14-2004   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grid
well id expect BDPA (best defensive player available).. unless an offensive juggernaut just falls into our lap.

I dunno.. how big a cap hit would he be? would we be better off keeping him since Aaron Glenn cant be staying with us that much longer?

If we DO intend to let him go.. I kinda wish we would have put him on the market and traded him before the deadline.. he has been an AWESOME CB for us.. and I KNOW there are teams out there who would have given a 2nd rounder for him, maybe a 1st. We have Marlon Mcree (very underrated FS) backing him up.
First priority should be a be a NT, but as far the scouing reports go, there isn't any to plug in next year. So the priority switches Oline.

The Oline needs another blood infusion without paying FA money. Wade is ok, but a Rookie is more cap friendly. Get one and it will payoff big time in the following years.

And Honestly, nobody will give away even a 2nd rounder for Glenn. Way too high concerning his age. Better keep him and look for another CB as replacement with at least a 2nd rounder. Best case would be alternating between Glenn and the Rookie, or the Rookie as a nickelback.

OLB is way more important than the ILB. All pressure is created from the outside rush, and the run can only be stopped by the LBs. Babin have to develop, so that will only get better. Go for another Lb to gain depth at LB or another OLB for the spot of Wong with a 3rd.
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Old 10-14-2004   #9
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The team does not need OLB's, the have three right now and one is a rookie and the other second year. Peek and Babin will develop this year, and they will be ready to start on opposite sides next year. Wong can move inside, which is where he has already played with the Vikings. This makes Foreman the third ILB like everyone wants. Maybe draft a LB later in the rounds, but it is not the necessity for the draft. Dline is what is needed. They arent stopping anything which is why foreman and sharper have so many tackles already.
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Old 10-14-2004   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georgewashington
Wong can move inside, which is where he has already played with the Vikings. .

Moving Wong inside does put the best athlete's on the field but at a cost . Peek is the 3rd OLB right now , with him starting who is the back-up on either side ? Moving Wong inside more or less forces the need to draft an OLB or pick one up in free-agency .
As far as Sharper and Foreman having a high number of tackles , that is the nature of the 3-4 D , Lineman take up the blocks , Linebackers Fill the gaps and outside contain , meaning they will have a high amount of tackles . The stat that hurts is when your Secondary has the vast majority of tackles .... meaning the LB's arent able to make the stop before the RB gets into the secondary ...... that is the sign of a team with real problems stopping the run .
The Texans have issues on the D-line especially since Gary Walker cant seem to stay on the field , even when he is he hasnt made the plays . The guy is Overpaid , Oft' injured , unproductive and nearing the end of his carreer . Games are won and lost in the trenches.
There are still a few holes on Defense , I'd expect BPA at any rate . I doubt that either LB position is of major priority at this point .
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Old 10-13-2004   #11
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at this point in the season it seems evident to me we cannot hold the line of scrimmage on either side of the ball.

mckinney needs to step it up because to me hes been a liability.

and either payne needs to get over his injury or maybe we need a new nose tackle...even if you disagree with my assesment of payne, we can no doubt use a quality 4th defensive lineman to rotate.

and i also think we have a huge need for a big nickle back. glenn, robinson, and faggins are all 5'10 or shorter and they're being exploited...specifically faggins. we need a solid 6'2 nickleback i think.

if bradford leaves, adding another deep threat would be nice but i dont feel its crucial ,and needless to say if coleman goes we'll need another free safety.

so far our biggest trouble has been run defense ,and inconsistent play by the offensive line...one of those issues will be adressed in free agency and the other in the draft.
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Old 10-13-2004   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powda
at this point in the season it seems evident to me we cannot hold the line of scrimmage on either side of the ball.

mckinney needs to step it up because to me hes been a liability.

and either payne needs to get over his injury or maybe we need a new nose tackle...even if you disagree with my assesment of payne, we can no doubt use a quality 4th defensive lineman to rotate.

and i also think we have a huge need for a big nickle back. glenn, robinson, and faggins are all 5'10 or shorter and they're being exploited...specifically faggins. we need a solid 6'2 nickleback i think.

if bradford leaves, adding another deep threat would be nice but i dont feel its crucial ,and needless to say if coleman goes we'll need another free safety.

so far our biggest trouble has been run defense ,and inconsistent play by the offensive line...one of those issues will be adressed in free agency and the other in the draft.
The Texans did that last year both through free agency Robaire Smith & Todd Wade both whom were considered above average coming into the prime of their careers. The poor run defense is due to fundamentals, I question the lines coaching not the personel there needs to be sound pad to pad contact on the runner.
What the line lacks is speed, its difficult to coach speed & thats why we need to add a slightly less hefty DT to the mix with both run stopping & QB sacking skills. Oh yeah he needs to be just as strong but without the bulk, there is at least one coming out in the draft and his name is David Pollack.

IF you get the chance watch Gerogia play, they also have an awesome ILB prospect Odell Thurman, if he is still available when the Texans make their 2nd pick I'd could certainly agree. He would not be a project like most ILB coming out of College very Ray'esk, could start next year he's that complete.
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Old 10-13-2004   #13
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I think we do need to draft an ILB. We need pressure up the middle to balance the guys on the outside. Sharper has some rush skills but Foreman has none. Foreman is just a reactionary guy that makes a ton of tackles 5-10 yards past the line of scrimmage.

If you look at the Steelers over the last few years, they have been more productive when ILB Kendrall Bell has excelled.

That said, I think DL is our biggest need going into this offseason. Payne and Walker just don't look as good as they did in 2002.
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Old 10-13-2004   #14
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I agree with the original poster here. You can't have all stars at every position. If we bolster our LB's it takes away from the line and secondary. Also I think it ultimately comes down to how much he produces along with how much he is being paid.
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Old 10-13-2004   #15
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The Texans did that last year both through free agency Robaire Smith & Todd Wade both whom were considered above average coming into the prime of their careers.
the texans did address that last year...they've addressed our o-line every year of our existance...BUT...if you've had an oppurtunity to watch the games...or watch them numerous times on tape as have i...you know its still a weakness. something has to be changed. you mention poor fundementals and or poor coaching...wich has some validity ,but its still no excuse for the CONSISTENTLY poor performance of our d-line. they cannot hold the line of scrimmage. ive watched it over and over again. my suggestion was the addition of either a new nose tackle (depending on paynes ability to completly regain his pre-injury performance) or a 4th quality d-lineman to rotate with our current players.

your suggestion? a new coach (wich i wont arrgue with)

and


Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover

Oh yeah he needs to be just as strong but without the bulk, there is at least one coming out in the draft and his name is David Pollack.

adding a 270-280 d-lineman to play in a 3-4 deffesnse? ummmmm....im not buying that.

as for our offensive line woes...the left side is young and they will get better. i have little doubt in that. mckinney is my issue. hes a good locker personality, a solid community person, and a likeable guy on radio. he's also a liability. the only reason he hasnt been more exposed is because typically when the defense only rushes 4 defenders he's the odd man out who doubles up on whoever needs the help. when hes one on one------hes domminated.

and as i said in my previous post i think we have a serious need for a "big" nickleback.
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Old 10-13-2004   #16
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We will need a solid DB at some point in the next couple years, as Glenn and Coleman are both getting older. Glenn may turn out to be the next coming of Darrell Green, but who knows? It would be a good idea to get another Dunta Robinson (like they grow on trees lol). And yes, I think we do need another ILB. Foreman makes a lot of tackles, and those who look at stats see that. The stats don't mention how many of those are made downfield though. Part of what makes Sharper a gamebreaker is he'll make big tackles for losses, create turnovers, and stops plays that would end up being A Very Bad Thing (tm) if he missed it. I'm not saying Foreman is bad .... just average. He's the perfect guy to have as your 3rd ILB. We don't have that kind of depth right now, and I doubt we will next year either, because I really think we need to look at getting a NT, or at least another DT.
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Old 10-14-2004   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powda
the texans did address that last year...they've addressed our o-line every year of our existance...BUT...if you've had an oppurtunity to watch the games...or watch them numerous times on tape as have i...you know its still a weakness. something has to be changed. you mention poor fundementals and or poor coaching...wich has some validity ,but its still no excuse for the CONSISTENTLY poor performance of our d-line. they cannot hold the line of scrimmage. ive watched it over and over again. my suggestion was the addition of either a new nose tackle (depending on paynes ability to completly regain his pre-injury performance) or a 4th quality d-lineman to rotate with our current players.

your suggestion? a new coach (wich i wont arrgue with)

and





adding a 270-280 d-lineman to play in a 3-4 deffesnse? ummmmm....im not buying that.

as for our offensive line woes...the left side is young and they will get better. i have little doubt in that. mckinney is my issue. hes a good locker personality, a solid community person, and a likeable guy on radio. he's also a liability. the only reason he hasnt been more exposed is because typically when the defense only rushes 4 defenders he's the odd man out who doubles up on whoever needs the help. when hes one on one------hes domminated.

and as i said in my previous post i think we have a serious need for a "big" nickleback.
you presume too much, fabricate the facts & completly misconstrue the truth. The Texans are one year ahead of your idea thats fact, they also used a large chunk of cap room to accomidate this need so I don't see this happeneing two years in a row.
as far as the coaching make sure you limit that to the defensive line coaching, not the head coaching. And yes I've been to two games in person watched the last one @ home (I was not too happy about the late hit on Carr when his shoulders/head where driven into the ground with no flag). The defensive line lacks speed big time, sure the idea is to lock up the interior with big bodies & occupy space but with todays athelete like a Culpepper it is not effective, hence dunta was brought off the end to basicly get in Culpeppers face. The NFL is all about speed. I completley agree with the Texans decision to draft Dunta Robinson he has quickly become my favorite Texan, to suggest Wilfork would have been a better pick well then your an ignoramus.

The Texans have a fine young offensive line that will improve with time as they develop playing as a unit don't be so negative have some patience. Speed kills if we go with a DE/DT it should be the quickest, most intellegent & strongest prospect available, hence it should be David Pollack, if he is still available when the Texans select.
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