Defensive hole! - Houston Texans Message Board & Forum

pittbull · 10-11-2004

Man, the game on sunday was painful and the fans got what their hard earned dollars paid for, but the defense has got to do better. For the first time in 3 years, we can really say the offense is keeping us in every game, with the defense failing to add anything to the pot. Did they have a few strong stops yesterday, yes, but if you don't get off the field on 3rd down, at least 50% of the time, it's going to be a long day. No team can play at the pace the TExans did on sunday, and the defense has to allow the offense time to control the clock. Come On! 18 total plays in the first half! That's 1st year stuff, because we were inadequate offensively, but the vikes had 42 plays, which put us behind the eight ball immediately! Safety continues to be where we struggle. I love Dante Robinson, and he's going to be our future shut-down corner, but I'm starting to doubt if we went in the wrong direction in the draft, solely on the "great safety experiment" not panning out! Take away the big heart-felt 101 yard interception return, and the guy has not made a solid transition. Coleman looks out of position on alot of plays and the secondary seems lost as a whole. If you know football, that is the safeties fault! He's the QB of the defense and it hasn't looked good! I'm going to be optimistic and say this team will rebound next week & after the bye week to make a run at the playoffs, but unless the safety play gets better, 7-9 or 8-8 is as high as we can go, solely on offensive shutouts!

blockhead83 · 10-11-2004

I know the D stopped the vikings first drive, and I'm pretty sure they stopped their first two drives. The Texans offense went 3 and out basically the entire first half, forcing our defense to stay out there for over 20 minutes. They get tired I'm sure when the offense can't sustain a drive and let them rest. Notice when the offense did better in the second half....so did the defense.

pittbull · 10-11-2004

I understand that, but the Texans are not getting help in the secondary on 3rd down. If you remember, the stops were on 3rd & 1, 3rd & 2, and so forth, but in long yardage situations, and this deflates the team, the fans, the stadium, everyone involved. If we make the big stop, you take the emotion out of the other team, and gain strong momentum!

shansmacker · 10-11-2004

I know 510 yds given up looks like the D had a horrible day and yes we do need to stiffen up when we have the advantage in down and distance but yesterdays loss goes to the offences inability to sustain even one drive in the first half.I for one wasnt too dissapointed with the D as much as I was with the first half offence.

JCTexanfan · 10-11-2004

I agree with Pittbull. Our defense has some real weakness in the secondary. we are not able to make consistant stops on third down, and break the momentum of the the other team. You can't give up long pass plays on 3-1, or even 3rd and long and expect to win many games. A strong defense is the heart of any good team.

rhc564 · 10-11-2004

...no question about the lack of offense in the first half, but allowing
500 plus yards and 5 touch downs is not going to win many games...

another thought about the lack of offensive plays in the first half...
This is a direct result of 'playing not to lose.' If the offense had opened
up and used all their weapons, it is probable that the Texans would have
gained some first downs, which would translate into more offensive plays.
However, the inability of the defense to stop the Vikings in the first half
sure did not help, which is reflected in the time of possession disparity.

Finally, look at the 3rd dwn conversion stat--- 9/17 for the Vikings, 5/15 for
the Texans.

**Vinny** · 10-11-2004

I think the biggest problem lies in the lack of inside push in our pass rush, and not our secondary. You just can't ask cover men to stay with NFL WR's for more than a few seconds. We rarely blow up the pocket from the inside. Look at our own David Carr. Most of the time when he struggles with the rush is when the pocket is blown up from the inside and he has to move out to the sidelines to find a receiver. Right now our only rush is on the edge and with a blitz. Until we can start imploding some pockets from the inside we will continue to give up lots of long 3rd downs.

Grid · 10-12-2004

Our defense DOES have weaknesses.. but they played AWESOME in the later part of the game. if we needed a stop.. they gave it to us. The only time that they didnt stop the vikings cold in the 4th quarter or overtime.. was when Marcus Robinson beat Dunta Robinson to win the game.

our run defense is suffering.. our secondary however.. is getting better. and that is because our Pass Rush has improved since we started tossing out blitz packages.

our defense is not broken yet. Give it a couple more weeks... we have been looking pretty good lately.

also remember that we just took the #1 offense lead by the #1 QB and the greatest receiver of his time, randy moss.. into overtime.. and almost beat them. Perhaps our defense isnt so bad afterall?

we are also ranked 16th in the league.. despite our shortcomings.

wags · 10-12-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grid

we are also ranked 16th in the league.. despite our shortcomings.

In terms of total defense, which is the big defensive stat, we are ranked 26th. We are giving up 368.2 yards a game.

Grid · 10-12-2004

well.. put it this way... we were 16th LAST WEEK before going up against the best offense in the league.... and I wouldnt say that our performance against the Vikes was a disappointing one.

Tayton · 10-13-2004

Personal opinion, Walker and Payne are not playing very well, we are in desperate need of a Safety, and Demarcus Faggins is getting beat regularly on third down. I was really pulling for Faggins but I have watched him often this year and he is giving a large cushion and still getting beat in third and long situations.

mdfan · 10-13-2004

I think we need taller and faster corners to keep up and jump with taller receivers. And maybe need to get rid of the 3-4 defense.

**infantrycak** · 10-13-2004

You're not going to find many CB's coming out faster than Robinson. As for size, look at the top rated CB's to come out the last few years--Newman, Hall, Robinson, Jammer, Buchanon--Jammer is the tallest at 6'. WR's have a huge advantage in that they know where they are going. DB's have to react to what the WR's do, and with an emphasis on no contact, they can't do it by bump control anymore. One of the best assets for a CB is short distance closing speed. It seems that it is much rarer for the taller players to have the reactions and closing speed to be great cover CB's. There are a couple of 6' 1" guys coming out next year.

HJam72 · 10-13-2004

We need fast, short CBs with really super-duper thick bottoms on their shoes. Athletic shoe clogs.

**beerlover** · 10-13-2004

Check this link out to figure what exactly the Texans are up against-

http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3074974

Not easy, no pain no gain, stay the course.

10-11-2004	#3
pittbull All Pro Join Date: May 2004 Location: Houston Age: 39 Posts: 532 Rep Power: 10	true hit I understand that, but the Texans are not getting help in the secondary on 3rd down. If you remember, the stops were on 3rd & 1, 3rd & 2, and so forth, but in long yardage situations, and this deflates the team, the fans, the stadium, everyone involved. If we make the big stop, you take the emotion out of the other team, and gain strong momentum! __________________ The Original, No Duplicating!!!

10-13-2004	#13
infantrycak Lead Moderator Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Houston, TX Age: 45 Posts: 37,421 Rep Power: 76017	You're not going to find many CB's coming out faster than Robinson. As for size, look at the top rated CB's to come out the last few years--Newman, Hall, Robinson, Jammer, Buchanon--Jammer is the tallest at 6'. WR's have a huge advantage in that they know where they are going. DB's have to react to what the WR's do, and with an emphasis on no contact, they can't do it by bump control anymore. One of the best assets for a CB is short distance closing speed. It seems that it is much rarer for the taller players to have the reactions and closing speed to be great cover CB's. There are a couple of 6' 1" guys coming out next year. __________________ The Art of War

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10-11-2004	#1
pittbull All Pro Join Date: May 2004 Location: Houston Age: 39 Posts: 532 Rep Power: 10	Defensive hole! Man, the game on sunday was painful and the fans got what their hard earned dollars paid for, but the defense has got to do better. For the first time in 3 years, we can really say the offense is keeping us in every game, with the defense failing to add anything to the pot. Did they have a few strong stops yesterday, yes, but if you don't get off the field on 3rd down, at least 50% of the time, it's going to be a long day. No team can play at the pace the TExans did on sunday, and the defense has to allow the offense time to control the clock. Come On! 18 total plays in the first half! That's 1st year stuff, because we were inadequate offensively, but the vikes had 42 plays, which put us behind the eight ball immediately! Safety continues to be where we struggle. I love Dante Robinson, and he's going to be our future shut-down corner, but I'm starting to doubt if we went in the wrong direction in the draft, solely on the "great safety experiment" not panning out! Take away the big heart-felt 101 yard interception return, and the guy has not made a solid transition. Coleman looks out of position on alot of plays and the secondary seems lost as a whole. If you know football, that is the safeties fault! He's the QB of the defense and it hasn't looked good! I'm going to be optimistic and say this team will rebound next week & after the bye week to make a run at the playoffs, but unless the safety play gets better, 7-9 or 8-8 is as high as we can go, solely on offensive shutouts! __________________ The Original, No Duplicating!!!

10-11-2004	#2
blockhead83 All Pro Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: College Station, Texas Age: 29 Posts: 715 Rep Power: 10	I know the D stopped the vikings first drive, and I'm pretty sure they stopped their first two drives. The Texans offense went 3 and out basically the entire first half, forcing our defense to stay out there for over 20 minutes. They get tired I'm sure when the offense can't sustain a drive and let them rest. Notice when the offense did better in the second half....so did the defense.

10-11-2004	#4
shansmacker Rookie Join Date: May 2004 Age: 50 Posts: 27 Rep Power: 0	I know 510 yds given up looks like the D had a horrible day and yes we do need to stiffen up when we have the advantage in down and distance but yesterdays loss goes to the offences inability to sustain even one drive in the first half.I for one wasnt too dissapointed with the D as much as I was with the first half offence.

10-11-2004	#5
JCTexanfan Rookie Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston Age: 47 Posts: 4 Rep Power: 0	I agree with Pittbull. Our defense has some real weakness in the secondary. we are not able to make consistant stops on third down, and break the momentum of the the other team. You can't give up long pass plays on 3-1, or even 3rd and long and expect to win many games. A strong defense is the heart of any good team.

10-11-2004	#6
rhc564 Veteran Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 173 Rep Power: 9	...no question about the lack of offense in the first half, but allowing 500 plus yards and 5 touch downs is not going to win many games... another thought about the lack of offensive plays in the first half... This is a direct result of 'playing not to lose.' If the offense had opened up and used all their weapons, it is probable that the Texans would have gained some first downs, which would translate into more offensive plays. However, the inability of the defense to stop the Vikings in the first half sure did not help, which is reflected in the time of possession disparity. Finally, look at the 3rd dwn conversion stat--- 9/17 for the Vikings, 5/15 for the Texans.

10-11-2004	#7
Vinny shiny happy fan Join Date: Apr 2004 Age: 49 Posts: 20,714 Rep Power: 55750	I think the biggest problem lies in the lack of inside push in our pass rush, and not our secondary. You just can't ask cover men to stay with NFL WR's for more than a few seconds. We rarely blow up the pocket from the inside. Look at our own David Carr. Most of the time when he struggles with the rush is when the pocket is blown up from the inside and he has to move out to the sidelines to find a receiver. Right now our only rush is on the edge and with a blitz. Until we can start imploding some pockets from the inside we will continue to give up lots of long 3rd downs.

10-12-2004	#8
Grid Hall of Fame Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 4,299 Rep Power: 2271	Our defense DOES have weaknesses.. but they played AWESOME in the later part of the game. if we needed a stop.. they gave it to us. The only time that they didnt stop the vikings cold in the 4th quarter or overtime.. was when Marcus Robinson beat Dunta Robinson to win the game. our run defense is suffering.. our secondary however.. is getting better. and that is because our Pass Rush has improved since we started tossing out blitz packages. our defense is not broken yet. Give it a couple more weeks... we have been looking pretty good lately. also remember that we just took the #1 offense lead by the #1 QB and the greatest receiver of his time, randy moss.. into overtime.. and almost beat them. Perhaps our defense isnt so bad afterall? we are also ranked 16th in the league.. despite our shortcomings.

10-13-2004	#11
Tayton Veteran Join Date: Sep 2004 Age: 47 Posts: 148 Rep Power: 9	Personal opinion, Walker and Payne are not playing very well, we are in desperate need of a Safety, and Demarcus Faggins is getting beat regularly on third down. I was really pulling for Faggins but I have watched him often this year and he is giving a large cushion and still getting beat in third and long situations.

10-13-2004	#12
mdfan Rookie Join Date: Oct 2004 Age: 37 Posts: 5 Rep Power: 0	I think we need taller and faster corners to keep up and jump with taller receivers. And maybe need to get rid of the 3-4 defense.

10-13-2004	#14
HJam72 Hall of Fame Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Over here. Age: 40 Posts: 10,472 Rep Power: 18004	We need fast, short CBs with really super-duper thick bottoms on their shoes. Athletic shoe clogs.

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10-13-2004	#15
beerlover Site Contributor Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 11,357 Rep Power: 15075	Check this link out to figure what exactly the Texans are up against- http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3074974 Not easy, no pain no gain, stay the course.

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