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Old 09-13-2004   #1
footballguy69
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Default Palmer Too Predictable!

Chris Palmer is too predictable. The play calling is terrible. Only good thing Sunday was we spread the ball around to receivers. Defense should look into the mirror. Terrible pass rush from Deloach, Walker and Smith. More blitzs should be called especially on 3rd down and long. The defenses 3rd down allowance was horrible. We need Gary Kubiak as offensive coordinator and send Palmer somewhere else before he screws up Carr like he did Couch! And....BJ Symons will be the 2nd string QB next year. We need his quick reads and quick release. Ragone will be history!
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Old 09-13-2004   #2
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The Texans gained 336 yards even though they turned it over 4 times. If they had held on to the ball they would have easily eclipsed 400 yards of offense. What exactly do you want them to do? Playcalling had little to do with the melt down yesterday.
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Old 09-13-2004   #3
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Default 336 yards?

I am not real excited by 336 yards against last years worst defense! I still say our red zone calls are terrible1
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Old 09-13-2004   #4
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I still say our red zone calls are terrible
Ok, so let's break it down play by play:

1st drive, what didn't you like, the Hollings run on 1st down at 12:47 or the two pass incompletions on 2nd and 3rd down that followed?

Last years worst defense (in terms of yards allowed) was Atlanta - followed closely by a team near and dear.

Count the times the Texans gained 336 yards last season, period. I'm guessing it happened once or twice.

Last edited by aj.; 09-13-2004 at 07:53 PM.
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Old 09-13-2004   #5
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Its the timing of the play calls in the game that really hurt. The series in the 4th where the Texans went ...Baxter dump pass for 3, Baxter up the middle for nothing (and I heard alot of boos on that one), then Carr sack. Three and done. This is the Texans 4th quarter trend continuing from last year. That play calling series makes Mac Brown look like an X's and o's genius. JUST TERRIBLE.

Bottom line is...Andre Johnson is our best offensive threat. He had one catch the whole second half. Is that good play calling?
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Old 09-13-2004   #6
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The series in the 4th where the Texans went ...Baxter dump pass for 3, Baxter up the middle for nothing (and I heard alot of boos on that one), then Carr sack. Three and done.
Agree, that was a horrible series. Play calling or execution? The Baxter pass on 1st down wasn't a bad call. The Baxter run on 2nd was. The Carr sack was a downfield attempt but Wade couldn't contain Phillips and Carr was trapped in the pocket.

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Andre Johnson is our best offensive threat. He had one catch the whole second half. Is that good play calling?
We don't know what plays were called (in terms of Carr's progressions and reads) but I think it's safe to say that if AJ was open, Carr would have found a way to get him the ball. They were rotating a safety over on AJ all day long.

Last edited by aj.; 09-13-2004 at 08:28 PM.
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Old 09-14-2004   #7
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Originally Posted by footballguy69
I am not real excited by 336 yards against last years worst defense! I still say our red zone calls are terrible1
Actually, Atlanta was the worst defense last year, and we were right ahead of them. San Diego ranked around 27th. If you want to go off last year's numbers, then 336 yards of total offense (with four turnovers) with last year's next to worst offense isn't bad.
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Old 09-13-2004   #8
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In Regard to Baxter..this is the second string FB..coming off a season of rehab....who earlier in the game dropped a touchdown pass. The mere fact that he is doing anything more than blocking during crunch time in the 4th quarter is poor play selection "period".
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Old 09-14-2004   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meisterman
In Regard to Baxter..this is the second string FB..coming off a season of rehab....who earlier in the game dropped a touchdown pass. The mere fact that he is doing anything more than blocking during crunch time in the 4th quarter is poor play selection "period".
He was passing it to M. Breuner but baxter got in his was instead. Mark was wide open in the back of the endzone.
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Old 09-14-2004   #10
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We lost 4/5 games last year in the fourth quarter, most on the last
possession. We lose to San Diego the same way. Why? Does this just
happen?

There is a turning point when a team goes from loser to winner and vice
versa. Making excuses prolongs this process. The Texans play and are
coached under a '5 yr umbrella.' All of a sudden- somehow - the Texans
are going to begin doing the things necessary to win, as they approach
the end of the 5 years? I don't think so. Why? There has to be a start-
ing point early in the process that continues to build, a process that is
filled with 'playing to win.' Sure, a new team loses but it learns about the
kind of effort and team work it takes to win. That team steps up for each
game, eventually becoming a winner. The Texans do not play to win.
And, most important, the team has not established a starting point.

Finally, the Texans are entering the "what if" period.
...what if we blitzed more
...what if we turned Carr loose
...what if, what if, etc.
It's going to be a long season if the Texans only take what the other
team gives them, while other teams strive to dictate the agenda.
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Old 09-14-2004   #11
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If a person is not analyzing x with relevant data or facts, it's not analysis, it's called uninformed opinion, speculation, chasing red herring, or maybe even wild a$s conjecture. There's so much we don't know in terms of the input to the process (the play call - the cover assignments, whatever) that it's difficult in most cases to make an accurate assessment of the output (the result of the play) except for what we see of course. And we all know there's much more going on than what we see.

We don't know Carr's reads and progressions, we didn't know that Parker was not the responsibility of Aaron Glenn until the next day, we don't know when Carr checks off that it was really supposed to be a screen but instead it was a dive up the middle. John Granato gave an example this morning about a game last year where Peek made a tackle behind the line of scrimmage. Granato mentioned Peek's "great" play to the coaching staff after the game and he was told sternly that Peek missed his real assignment on that play and lucked into a tackle for a loss.

Minus 4 in turnovers, long yardage plays given up to Gates and Caldwell, 40 yard pass interference penalties, and lack of crucial 3rd down stops I can deal with. Play calling sometimes gets into the subjective, because what we see is not always what was intended. That's true for "good" plays and "bad" plays.

There was a guy who called in today and was beyatching about the Texans not throwing more "timing routes." What the hell does that mean? There was another guy who called in on Vandermeer's show and I can't remember the topic but it set Vandermeer off because he was obviously tired of hearing the left field analysis. Sure we have the right to criticize and we should. Many here and on the radio bring fair criticisms. But sometimes the herd mentality on certain things goes way beyond what's sensible imo, and it reflects poorly on us all.

Last edited by aj.; 09-14-2004 at 06:40 PM.
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Old 09-14-2004   #12
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Good stuff AJ. You are correct in that we don't always know the ins and outs. However, the mere fact that the audible on that play was a checkoff to a dive play to Baxter brings into question the whole scheme. We have playmakers all over the field, and the checkoff is to Baxter? Now, that cannot be disputed, as Carr confirmed this himself. That play was simply pathetic. The coaches job is to put the players into the best posisition to win. The best chance to win on that play was not a dive play up the gut by Baxter.
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Old 09-14-2004   #13
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Can't argue with you at all on that particular play. I said that somewhere else too, I don't know if it was in this thread or not. I'm not saying we can't be critical of play calls, I'm just saying certain broad brush criticisms on particular subjects aren't always well thought out.

Last edited by aj.; 09-14-2004 at 06:42 PM.
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Old 09-14-2004   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhc564
The Texans do not play to win. It's going to be a long season if the Texans only take what the other team gives them, while other teams strive to dictate the agenda.

You make a very good point. I was wondering if I was the only one to see it this way. Maybe its just me (and you), but it seems to me like we play our hearts out and most of the time have a lead going in to the fourth quarter...but then all of a sudden our mind set changes and we no longer play to win , but instead play to not lose. And yes there is a difference.

We are no longer the aggressive team that looks to drive down the field and put points on the board...we some how turn into a squad that looks to kill the clock and waste as much time as possible and just hope that we dont give the other team enough time to overcome our lead.

Grant it after this game I know that the turnovers killed us. I mean anytime you fumble the ball on your own goal line....thats gonna hurt you. Especially if they come right back down and score on you...your talking about a 14pt turn around in this case (the 7 we didnt score because of it and the 7 they ended up scoring). Turnover kill your drives and all of your momentum, but again our team has yet to show us that they have that killer instinct that it takes to close out a game or to put it out of reach in the final quarter.

But thats just my assessment....anybody else agree??? even slightly???
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Old 09-14-2004   #15
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And Im with everyone else on the Baxter dive up the middle...I dont know what the hell that was all about, but I assure you that it was not our best option. And if it was....and you had to check off to that...call a freaking time out and get another play cause we all know that wasnt going to cut it....not on 2nd and long atleast.
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Old 09-14-2004   #16
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Is that (the Baxter) the only bad play you saw called? If so I think one play, out of however many we ran, is not indicative of "bad play calling". If you think we lost the game because Carr checked off to Baxter on that play, then I will have to disagree. If you come up with some other plays that were "conservative" or "bad", I might agree with your take. One play in the entire game isn't sufficient evidence to back it up IMO.

AJ, you did a much better job of summing up what I was trying to say.
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Old 09-16-2004   #17
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Originally Posted by sprtsfanatic
You make a very good point. I was wondering if I was the only one to see it this way. Maybe its just me (and you), but it seems to me like we play our hearts out and most of the time have a lead going in to the fourth quarter...but then all of a sudden our mind set changes and we no longer play to win , but instead play to not lose. And yes there is a difference.

We are no longer the aggressive team that looks to drive down the field and put points on the board...we some how turn into a squad that looks to kill the clock and waste as much time as possible and just hope that we dont give the other team enough time to overcome our lead.

Grant it after this game I know that the turnovers killed us. I mean anytime you fumble the ball on your own goal line....thats gonna hurt you. Especially if they come right back down and score on you...your talking about a 14pt turn around in this case (the 7 we didnt score because of it and the 7 they ended up scoring). Turnover kill your drives and all of your momentum, but again our team has yet to show us that they have that killer instinct that it takes to close out a game or to put it out of reach in the final quarter.

But thats just my assessment....anybody else agree??? even slightly???
I guess I am the only one that feels that way.....
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Old 09-16-2004   #18
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If we don't have 4 turnovers, we win the game. End of story.
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Old 09-16-2004   #19
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Three words sum up the problem with this game:

EXECUTION, EXECUTION, and EXECUTION.

The four turnovers were a product of one of these three words. Take you pick which one applies.
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Old 09-16-2004   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bottle-O-Bud
You can't excecute if you are undiciplined. Safeties out of position, WR running wrong routes in the red zone, WR bunching up, QBs throwing on one foot, TE holding, RB not tucking etc....

Isn't that the same as Execution?
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