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Old 05-20-2014   #1
76Texan
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Default Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

FOR those who don't know me, I was the guy who defended those two during off-seasons, after their "seemingly" disastrous campaigns.

While doing so, I spent a lot of times breaking down several "perceived" terrible plays by the defendants.

Some claimed that I made them pro - bowlers while the usual thinking was that they stink.

That, by itself, is a "small" victory for the defendants, whether in the court of law or common "justice".
Just to make the jury explore the evidences that encompass the whole case rather than just zeroing in one target is always a good step. The final judgment is always in the hand of the jury.

Unfortunately, I don't have much time this year.
The regulars here can tell by my abscence.
They also know that I believe in Football as a team sport; it is won most often with a cohesive unit (Coaching, offense, defense, ST, and fans.)

All that said, I'd like to begin the "investigation" with Tom Brady in his second year with the Patriots.

Study his numbers from every aspect and they are really close to Keenum's

Then you look at each smaller unit.
Offensive weapons.
Running game.
The O-line.

Advantage Brady, by how much? It's hard to quantify; my thinking is the running game helped Brady more.

But when it comes to defense, I hate to say it, there was no contest.
Brady had nearly a ten point advantage.

And then there's ST.

...

I like Keenum a lot because he has it upstairs, but he's always limited in statue.
From day one, I've stressed that he needs to begin by observing Drew Brees.

Right now I think he plays more like a backup .
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Old 05-20-2014   #2
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

His problems against the blitz were so frustrating. He struggled, no problem with that. But he continually struggled with the same concept. No progression in that area at all last year. Blame the offensive line all you want (and it was bad) but it wasn't all their fault. Not even close.

Also, the sacks. IIRC, of the 5 longest sacks taken last season, he had 3-4 of them including the 2 longest.
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Old 05-20-2014   #3
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Also, the sacks. IIRC, of the 5 longest sacks taken last season, he had 3-4 of them including the 2 longest.
Those are frustrating plays, but they don't speak to his ability to play QB at all, IMO. A seasoned QB learns to go fetal when it's called for, while a young QB is more apt to try and extend the play. Add to that the pressure of getting what will likely be his only chance and he'd rather go down slinging it than playing it safe, I'd assume. Add to that the team's woes and I'm sure they all felt the need to try and do too much.

Of all the things to ding Keenum for, the long sacks are not too concerning, in my view.
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Old 05-20-2014   #4
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

Well, the good thing about having O'Brien come in without a starting QB is that we can be certain that Keenum will be analyzed and given a shot. If he does not pan out with O'Brien, then it should be fairly obvious when two different NFL staffs arrive at the same conclusion.

I'd love to see the kid make it and succeed, just because it's a great story. But, that said, story is a result, not a justification.
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Old 05-21-2014   #5
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Well, the good thing about having O'Brien come in without a starting QB is that we can be certain that Keenum will be analyzed and given a shot. If he does not pan out with O'Brien, then it should be fairly obvious when two different NFL staffs arrive at the same conclusion.

I'd love to see the kid make it and succeed, just because it's a great story. But, that said, story is a result, not a justification.
Keenum has had two opportunities that most undrafted free agents do not have at all... a clean opportunity to start for 8 games and a chance to outplay three Qbs that the organization/coaching staff does not have a significant investment.

I won't even consider arguing that it is fair, but a guy like him has to take advantage of situations no matter how bad. Last year he failed and mostly showed his weaknesses. Again not fair that the Texans were not a 'perfect' but he made nothing better. Getting an off-season to SHOW this new staff this he is a legitimate NFL STARTING qb is more than he could ever ask for after 2013.
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Old 05-21-2014   #6
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Getting an off-season to SHOW this new staff this he is a legitimate NFL STARTING qb is more than he could ever ask for after 2013.
Which is why I don't understand all the bickering. It's going to happen. Keenum is going to get another chance. He'll prove some of us right & some of us wrong...
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Old 05-21-2014   #7
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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not fair that the Texans were not a 'perfect' but he made nothing better.
Nobody is saying they have to be perfect .... just competent. As Cloak said, Keenum wasn't thrown into the fire last year ... he was thrown into hell. So, if you have a scale with 'perfect' on one end and 'hell' on the other, this team was much closer to hell.

I would also say that in his first 3 games, before the team and coaches quit on the season, he did make things better. He certainly held up his end but was betrayed by poor special teams and defense.

Yes, he does have a lot of room for improvement in his game and we'll see if he makes that leap this year.
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Old 05-20-2014   #8
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

Keenum doesn't have Brady's traits -- much steeper hill for him.

But it'll be fun to see how/if things chance with different QB coaching & new system.
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Old 05-20-2014   #9
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Keenum doesn't have Brady's traits -- much steeper hill for him.
Curious what traits you think the second year (first year starter) version of Tom Brady had that Keenum doesn't, and why you think Keenum doesn't have them. Obviously, Brady has become one of the best QBs in NFL history, but because of that, people tend to over-inflate his play in those first couple years.
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Old 05-21-2014   #10
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Curious what traits you think the second year (first year starter) version of Tom Brady had that Keenum doesn't, and why you think Keenum doesn't have them. Obviously, Brady has become one of the best QBs in NFL history, but because of that, people tend to over-inflate his play in those first couple years.
I'll give you that.

Brady fumbled the ball 12 times as a first year starter, in 14 games.

Keenum fumbled the ball 9 times in 8.

I've got no misconceptions about the guy Tom Brady was. He wasn't a great QB back then, but he was clutch. Always managing to get his team what they needed when they needed it most.

Can't say the same for first year Keenum.

So I understand the guys who are wanting to move on & find our franchise QB, because unless you see Romo as a franchise QB, it's hard to think about Keenum as the face of our franchise.

I think Romo is a franchise QB.

Still, I feel if we don't have a franchise QB, get me another Schaub. A healthy Schaub & I think Keenum can be that.

But don't stop looking for that franchise QB, even though you might hurt Keenum's feelings.
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Old 05-21-2014   #11
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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I'll give you that.

Brady fumbled the ball 12 times as a first year starter, in 14 games.

Keenum fumbled the ball 9 times in 8.

I've got no misconceptions about the guy Tom Brady was. He wasn't a great QB back then, but he was clutch. Always managing to get his team what they needed when they needed it most.

Can't say the same for first year Keenum.

So I understand the guys who are wanting to move on & find our franchise QB, because unless you see Romo as a franchise QB, it's hard to think about Keenum as the face of our franchise.

I think Romo is a franchise QB.

Still, I feel if we don't have a franchise QB, get me another Schaub. A healthy Schaub & I think Keenum can be that.

But don't stop looking for that franchise QB, even though you might hurt Keenum's feelings.
MSR for your last 2 posts in this thread. Good points and arguments.
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Old 05-21-2014   #12
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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But don't stop looking for that franchise QB, even though you might hurt Keenum's feelings.
Hey, I've said all along that I want an honest competition (at every position, really). I want Savage and Yates to get an honest competition. And I want the best man to win. I want that best man to be Keenum, but I don't want Keenum to be handed the job like QBs in Texans past have. I am rooting for him to win the job, not to just be handed the job. If he doesn't win it, then I don't want him on the field. And I said the same thing about Schaub. If he was good enough to beat out Rosenfels and whoever else, then he shouldn't have had an issue if the job were put to an open competition. But it never was. If Keenum somehow wins the starting job, it'll be in large part because of his perseverance and mental toughness, a couple traits I think will serve him well throughout his NFL career, however long or short it may be.

So yeah, draft a QB every year. Just make sure the starter has to win the job. If he's good enough, that'll be the least of his (and the team's) concerns.
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Old 05-20-2014   #13
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
Keenum doesn't have Brady's traits -- much steeper hill for him.

But it'll be fun to see how/if things chance with different QB coaching & new system.
What was Bradys trait, May I Ask?
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Old 05-20-2014   #14
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

Can Keenum get better like those other two guys got better?

Sure.
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Old 05-20-2014   #15
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Can Keenum get better like those other two guys got better?

Sure.
No, in my opinion. The problems he has are not the kind you can learn out of. He's still ok as a backup.

Hope he proves me wrong.
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Old 05-28-2014   #16
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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What was Bradys trait, May I Ask?
The ability to find the open receiver. He was a natural at scoping the field on any play and finding a guy that was open that he could throw the ball to. In those first two SB runs, Brady would constantly have games where he threw to like 7 to 9 guys. He had so many barely above average receivers back then. He managed to move the chains on 3rd downs a lot and performed well in the clutch.
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Old 05-28-2014   #17
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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The ability to find the open receiver. He was a natural at scoping the field on any play and finding a guy that was open that he could throw the ball to. In those first two SB runs, Brady would constantly have games where he threw to like 7 to 9 guys. He had so many barely above average receivers back then. He managed to move the chains on 3rd downs a lot and performed well in the clutch.
And what were the reasons for him to last until the sixth? May I ask?

According to a book quoted by Wikipedia, the Pats were considering him and Tim Rattay (who went in the 7th) before settling on him as a developmental project.
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Old 05-20-2014   #18
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Originally Posted by WolverineFan View Post
His problems against the blitz were so frustrating. He struggled, no problem with that. But he continually struggled with the same concept. No progression in that area at all last year. Blame the offensive line all you want (and it was bad) but it wasn't all their fault. Not even close.

Also, the sacks. IIRC, of the 5 longest sacks taken last season, he had 3-4 of them including the 2 longest.
Good; which was supposed to be on the card.
Everybody (or so it seems) is on this; which is totally legitimate?
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Old 05-20-2014   #19
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Good; which was supposed to be on the card.
Everybody (or so it seems) is on this; which is totally legitimate?
I'm interested to understand what you're saying here, 76, but honestly can't figure it out. Can you elaborate? Thanks.
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Old 05-20-2014   #20
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Originally Posted by WolverineFan View Post
His problems against the blitz were so frustrating. He struggled, no problem with that. But he continually struggled with the same concept. No progression in that area at all last year. Blame the offensive line all you want (and it was bad) but it wasn't all their fault. Not even close.

Also, the sacks. IIRC, of the 5 longest sacks taken last season, he had 3-4 of them including the 2 longest.
We'll get to that.
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