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Old 12-16-2013   #1
tedr
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Default What sets the good organizations apart?

After seeing the debacle this year that is the Texans, I've begun wondering what do the solid franchises have in common? Teams like the Steelers, Ravens, Patriots, Colts, Packers, Giants, and 49ers have done pretty well over an extended period of time. You might have an argument about the inclusion of some of the teams, or lack thereof, and that's fine.

Is it solid ownership, coaching, an ability to consistently evaluate talent, an ability to adapt to the changing environment, or simply luck, or a combination of all? I believe all organizations want to be the very best in all these areas, but most fall short. So again, what do the good organizations do that so many are not able to?

Last edited by tedr; 12-16-2013 at 03:41 PM.
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Old 12-16-2013   #2
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

I think a fair amount of luck would play into it. Also typically all teams hit runs where things arent good. Often times we dont remember them as well because they arent "our" team.

Of course solid ownership, coaching, talent evaluation etc are big factors.
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Old 12-16-2013   #3
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

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Originally Posted by tedr View Post
After seeing the debacle this year that is the Texans, I've begun wondering what do the historically solid franchises have in common? Teams like the Steelers, Ravens, Patriots, Colts, Packers, Giants, and 49ers have done pretty well over an extended period of time. You might have an argument about the inclusion of some of the teams, or lack thereof, and that's fine.

Is it solid ownership, coaching, an ability to consistently evaluate talent, an ability to adapt to the changing environment, or simply luck, or a combination of all? I believe all organizations want to be the very best in all these areas, but most fall short. So again, what do the good organizations do that so many are not able to?
No offense intended, but you must be young because those franchises have been unexpurgated shoite for the majority of my lifetime. Only recently did they come into stability.
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Old 12-16-2013   #4
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

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Originally Posted by Surreal McCoy View Post
No offense intended, but you must be young because those franchises have been unexpurgated shoite for the majority of my lifetime. Only recently did they come into stability.
None taken- by an extended period of time I'm talking about the last ten to fifteen years in most cases; with the Steelers and 49ers a bit longer. It's impossible to be good every single year, and I realize that...these teams though seem to have been consistently better than most franchises.
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Old 12-16-2013   #5
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

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Originally Posted by Surreal McCoy View Post
No offense intended, but you must be young because those franchises have been unexpurgated shoite for the majority of my lifetime. Only recently did they come into stability.
Was going to point out that in my decade watching NFL I've known the packers and 49ers to be bottom feeders till relatively recently.

You don't get stability without a top end QB, you might get to the big dance though with a good enough roster (bears,cards,eagles).

I think the second you become playoff contenders, your FAs hit a premium, so you'd better be damn good if you want to build through the draft, which we haven't been the last few years, just as that happened, we busted on mercilus, reed, Brandon Harris, countless Oline etc.

It's not that build through the draft is wrong, but you can't limit yourself to that and then be **** at it.

When was the last time we signed a vet minimum FA that improved the starting lineup as well? Pollard? We haven't been good at finding value of late.

I don't believe this is truly a 2-14 team, I just think it got exposed early on this season in more ways than we fixable, a bit like what Kubiak said about kris brown and not being able to fix it in-season.

We also probably put too much of the playbook on tape in those comeback wins to leave many surprises. We also got the injury bug quite bad, which I don't accept as an excuse because the backups in year 8 should be good enough.

I still think we are built for stability, I just worry how long it might take to find the QB we need to realise it.

I'm wondering if the fact that Washington are likely to pick #2, not needing QB, or left tackle could help us bag a loot for someone who really wants clowney.

Getting loads of top picks when there isn't a true #1 out there might set us up for the next decade, as long as we can sort QB.
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Old 12-17-2013   #6
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

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Originally Posted by welsh texan View Post
Was going to point out that in my decade watching NFL I've known the packers and 49ers to be bottom feeders till relatively recently.

You don't get stability without a top end QB, you might get to the big dance though with a good enough roster (bears,cards,eagles).
The Steelers might be the exception to the rule. I can't remember them missing the play-offs more than 2 years in a row. Their "low" was trotting out one & done teams with the likes of Cordelle Stewart at QB.

Other than that, the Patriots, Packers, & Colts were the Houston Texans of the league for a long, long time before they became the Patriots, Packers, & Colts.
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Old 12-17-2013   #7
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

Great Owner
Great HC
Great QB
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Old 12-17-2013   #8
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BullNation4Life View Post
Great Owner
Great HC
Great QB
Agreed and I think in that order too. One of those 3 being great can at times (temporarily) overcome the other 2.

The Patriots turned the corner when Kraft took over. The Bucs likewise when Malcolm Glazier bought the team (and they went back down when he turned it over to his sons due to illness).

IMO, the owner sets the culture. The Oilers/Titans were always a circus thanks to Bud. It will be interesting to see what that franchise does now.

The same was true with Al and the Raiders. Just look at the Cowboys. Jerry turned a storied franchise into a choke .. errr joke. Though at one time he was lucky and had greatness at 2 of those 3 (HC and QB).

McNair has always been a "play it safe" type of owner with way too much patience. It's been said that any coach would love to coach for McNair because of his patience and loyalty. That translates into they know they can be mediocre and still have job security. Kubiak was here WAY too long.

The Texans need a good kick in the pants and someone needs to come in here and offset the "nice guy/patient" culture around Reliant (that has been set by McNair himself).
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Old 12-19-2013   #9
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

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Originally Posted by BullNation4Life View Post
Great Owner
Great HC
Great QB

^^^^
These

1.An owner comitted to winning above all else.
2.HC/GM Leader of men who wont except anything but the best and is willing to do whatever it takes to win on or off the field. That means giving up his time for the cause.
3. Same as above, and losing makes the QB sick at his stomach the next morning. QB that is at his best at the end of games. Winning time

The Texans have none of these type people at these positions currently in their org.
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Old 12-17-2013   #10
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
The Steelers might be the exception to the rule. I can't remember them missing the play-offs more than 2 years in a row. Their "low" was trotting out one & done teams with the likes of Cordelle Stewart at QB.
The low times for the Steelers was during the late-80's in the last days of Noll. They went 7 years with 1 playoff appearance before Cowher took over.

Under Cowher, they had a 3 year playoff drought from 98 to 2001.

They really have done a great job with being consistent over the years. Especially considering they went to the playoffs 1 time in almost 40 years at the beginning of their existence. And they were a bad team for Noll's first three years before he got them turned around.
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Old 12-17-2013   #11
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

I think McNair's a good owner. I think he's an owner that wants to win. I don't mind him being patient. I prefer patience to someone who swaps out coaches every couple of years.

But I think getting the right GM, Coach, and QB is very, very difficult.
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Old 12-16-2013   #12
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedr View Post
Teams like the Steelers, Ravens, Patriots, Colts, Packers, Giants, and 49ers have done pretty well over an extended period of time.
Well for the most part you have some very stable QB situations sometimes coupled with very stable coaching.

Patriots - Belichick & Brady are the time period.
Colts - Manning now Luck, prolonged portion Dungy.
Packers - Favre now Rogers
Steelers - Big Ben, very stable coaching with Cowher and Tomlin
Niners - haven't really been that stable since the Montana and Young days even with a very poor division until recently.
Giants - not stable and for the most part have played in a crappy division
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Old 12-16-2013   #13
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Well for the most part you have some very stable QB situations sometimes coupled with very stable coaching.

Patriots - Belichick & Brady are the time period.
Colts - Manning now Luck, prolonged portion Dungy.
Packers - Favre now Rogers
Steelers - Big Ben, very stable coaching with Cowher and Tomlin
Niners - haven't really been that stable since the Montana and Young days even with a very poor division until recently.
Giants - not stable and for the most part have played in a crappy division
Looking at it again, you can make a case that the 49ers don't belong on the list. They did just recently get good again, and for the most part, the decade of the 2000s for them was not good.

However, as up and down as the Giants have been, they have won two Super Bowls in the last 6 years, and been to three since 2000, so they must be doing something right...I also don't think their division has been as bad for the last 10 years as you might think.

Your overall point, though, is spot on. Great quarterbacking, combined with great coaching, seems to be the winner.
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Old 12-16-2013   #14
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

It's all about the QB.

And if it wasn't, it is now.
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Old 12-16-2013   #15
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

Great Qb
Good to great coach
Good defense

In that order.
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Old 12-16-2013   #16
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

The owner has good luck hiring a football guy .

The football guy has luck finding a head coach and has a knack for talent .

The head coach is at the front of a new wave whether it be the Tampa 2 , the WCO , no huddle , and has a QB to execute the offense . Walsh , Holgrem , Reid , McCarthy , as examples .

The brass makes good decisions on the cap . Try not to overpay when you have a player behind him . Develop depth .
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Old 12-16-2013   #17
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedr View Post
After seeing the debacle this year that is the Texans, I've begun wondering what do the solid franchises have in common? Teams like the Steelers, Ravens, Patriots, Colts, Packers, Giants, and 49ers have done pretty well over an extended period of time. You might have an argument about the inclusion of some of the teams, or lack thereof, and that's fine.

Is it solid ownership, coaching, an ability to consistently evaluate talent, an ability to adapt to the changing environment, or simply luck, or a combination of all? I believe all organizations want to be the very best in all these areas, but most fall short. So again, what do the good organizations do that so many are not able to?
Ravens, Steelers, Patriots, and the Giants have all had accountability from the coaching staff on those teams. Ray Lewis really helped out being on the Ravens, but coaching for the most part.

The Colts, Patriots, and the Packers have all had one thing. Elite level HOF QB's. I included the Patriots in the other paragraph because BB is great, but his legacy wouldn't be anywhere near as good without Brady. BB has been a pretty poor GM for that franchise if you ask me. He coaches the team well though, and Brady is a monster. Manning and Rodgers are self explanatory to me.

I have no idea why you included the 49ers as they have only been good for the past two seasons. Before that they were a constant roller coaster switching coaches every 4 years because they chose bad hires and Smith played pretty bad for a long time.
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Old 12-16-2013   #18
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

I do think coaching can make a good team great. But the QB is really the key. The sad truth is that a franchise QB only comes along once every few years.

Ultimately though the difference between Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning is luck.
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Old 12-16-2013   #19
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

Two things I am watching right now that reflect Texans mindset that have set them apart, Glover Quin is a Lion and Ed Reed was a Texan. Justin Tucker just kicked his 29th consecutive FG. Tucker was signed as an UDFA the same year Texans used a 5th RD draft pick on Bullock.
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Old 12-17-2013   #20
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

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Two things I am watching right now that reflect Texans mindset that have set them apart, Glover Quin is a Lion and Ed Reed was a Texan. Justin Tucker just kicked his 29th consecutive FG. Tucker was signed as an UDFA the same year Texans used a 5th RD draft pick on Bullock.
^^^^
This on all level throughout the org.

1.QB
2.GM/HC, getting elite level talent throughout the draft and adding talent in FA and how it relates to poin #3.
3. Cap management

The Texans have failed on all of these levels and are on pace for 2-14 because of these failures.
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