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Old 10-08-2013   #1
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Default Keenum vs Manziel (Sumlin System)

Not sure if this was posted.

But it is very entertaining considering people would like to draft Johnny.
Check it if you haven't read it before.

http://sportswunderkind.com/johnny-m...f-case-keenum/
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Old 10-08-2013   #2
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Default Re: Keenum vs Manziel (Sumlin System)

We all know Kubiak will adore Manziel being an Aggie and all.
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Old 10-08-2013   #3
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Default Re: Keenum vs Manziel (Sumlin System)

I would argue that RG3 should be considered as well. Same system.
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Old 10-08-2013   #4
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Default Re: Keenum vs Manziel (Sumlin System)

interesting stats and comparisons on their play against BCS teams.
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Old 10-08-2013   #5
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Default Re: Keenum vs Manziel (Sumlin System)

One honest question.

Let's put Keenum in behind center on September 14, 2013 against Alabama in College Station.

Do you think he could have done what Manziel did?

Also, Manziel is not my first choice for this team. It's Hundley and my second choice is Tajh Boyd.
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Old 10-08-2013   #6
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Default Re: Keenum vs Manziel (Sumlin System)

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Originally Posted by htownfan32 View Post
One honest question.

Let's put Keenum in behind center on September 14, 2013 against Alabama in College Station.

Do you think he could have done what Manziel did?

Also, Manziel is not my first choice for this team. It's Hundley and my second choice is Tajh Boyd.
no doubt. keenum did more because he had less. but that's my opinion.
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Old 10-08-2013   #7
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Default Re: Keenum vs Manziel (Sumlin System)

folks can't call keenum a system QB without calling Johnny one too. Both from the same system.
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Old 10-08-2013   #8
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Default Re: Keenum vs Manziel (Sumlin System)

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no doubt. keenum did more because he had less. but that's my opinion.
Okay, I can buy that. But he didn't do it against any defense of Alabama's caliber. Ok St. and Penn State are great teams, but to compare their defenses to Alabama's... Heck, even the one SEC team listed, Mississippi St., isn't exactly top tier SEC competition.
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Old 10-08-2013   #9
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Default Re: Keenum vs Manziel (Sumlin System)

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Originally Posted by htownfan32 View Post
One honest question.

Let's put Keenum in behind center on September 14, 2013 against Alabama in College Station.

Do you think he could have done what Manziel did?

Also, Manziel is not my first choice for this team. It's Hundley and my second choice is Tajh Boyd.
In 2007 at Alabama Keenum came in halfway through the 3rd quarter down 7 to 23 and was just 15 yards shy of the win.
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Old 10-08-2013   #10
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Default Re: Keenum vs Manziel (Sumlin System)

This article is about Manziel and how he compares with Keenum as a college prospect. Nothing about Keenum as a Texan. Moved to the correct forum.
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Old 10-08-2013   #11
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Default Re: Keenum vs Manziel (Sumlin System)

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Originally Posted by thitch View Post
In 2007 at Alabama Keenum came in halfway through the 3rd quarter down 7 to 23 and was just 15 yards shy of the win.
during that year, keenum shared QB duties with Blake and had not started.
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Old 10-08-2013   #12
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Default Re: Keenum vs Manziel (Sumlin System)

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
I would argue that RG3 should be considered as well. Same system.
No, RG3 played under briles....kevin kolb though put up numbers in briles' system.....and well....
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Old 10-09-2013   #13
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Default Re: Keenum vs Manziel (Sumlin System)

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No, RG3 played under briles....kevin kolb though put up numbers in briles' system.....and well....
Sumlin coached under Briles and kept his offensive system. It's the same system. Kolb, Keenum, RG3, and Manziel have all played in the same system, with only very minor differences. As someone said above, conference bias screws up talent evaluation. Keenum could turn into the next Drew Brees or he could turn into the next Kevin Kolb. Whatever he turns into isn't going to be because of whatever system he ran in college. It's going to be because he was never given the same opportunity that a guy like RG3 or Kolb was given, at least in large part. And that's really the root of the Keenum debate. You have people arguing that he should get a chance to fail and you have people arguing that he should not. The people arguing he should not largely base their argument on stupid **** like the fact that he wasn't drafted, which is circular logic, or that he's only 6' tall. The only times anyone has seen Keenum play, he's been impressive. Yes, it was college and preseason, so what's the step after that?

What else could Keenum do to make some of y'all give him a chance? (not aimed at you specifically Mr Tex)
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Old 10-09-2013   #14
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Default Re: Keenum vs Manziel (Sumlin System)

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post

What else could Keenum do to make some of y'all give him a chance? (not aimed at you specifically Mr Tex)
Wait.

Do his thing, study, make all the meetings, improve himself everyday.

Bottom line, for me anyway, is that Matt Schaub just came off two of his best seasons as an NFL QB. Not stat wise, but W-L wise. He's struggling, can't deny that. But he showed enough week 1, week 2, and really week 4 to say, it's still in there somewhere. & I can see how Kubiak would think it is worth trying to find.

I never thought Matt would have the issue he's having this year, but with that in mind, chances are even better that Keenum will get his shot. Matt's either going to play himself out of the job or he's going to get hurt. If you really want Keenum to have a real shot, then tweet him, tell him you support him, tell him to be ready. One way or another he's going to get his shot. It sucks that he won't get multiple shots like Kolb or RG3. He's only going to get one. If he fails, no one is going to say, "Well... he's on that Houston offense, they've got some coaching issues....... I'll give him another shot."

He's going to get 1 & if he does well, he'll get another, then another.
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Old 10-09-2013   #15
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Default Re: Keenum vs Manziel (Sumlin System)

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Wait.

Do his thing, study, make all the meetings, improve himself everyday.

Bottom line, for me anyway, is that Matt Schaub just came off two of his best seasons as an NFL QB. Not stat wise, but W-L wise. He's struggling, can't deny that. But he showed enough week 1, week 2, and really week 4 to say, it's still in there somewhere. & I can see how Kubiak would think it is worth trying to find.

I never thought Matt would have the issue he's having this year, but with that in mind, chances are even better that Keenum will get his shot. Matt's either going to play himself out of the job or he's going to get hurt. If you really want Keenum to have a real shot, then tweet him, tell him you support him, tell him to be ready. One way or another he's going to get his shot. It sucks that he won't get multiple shots like Kolb or RG3. He's only going to get one. If he fails, no one is going to say, "Well... he's on that Houston offense, they've got some coaching issues....... I'll give him another shot."

He's going to get 1 & if he does well, he'll get another, then another.
Lost me there bud...There isn't a sturdy leg Kubiak has to stand on to justify trotting Schaub back out there.

I keep hearing the experts say he gives us the best chance to win...well no he doesn't if he continues to toss pick 6's & ints. At this point, any qb who doesn't do that gives us a better chance than he does.

& there's at least 2 guys on the roster right now who probably can stay away from doing that....you can probably find a vet or 2 on the FA market who can probably do that as well.
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Old 10-09-2013   #16
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Default Re: Keenum vs Manziel (Sumlin System)

Quote:
Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
Sumlin coached under Briles and kept his offensive system. It's the same system. Kolb, Keenum, RG3, and Manziel have all played in the same system, with only very minor differences. As someone said above, conference bias screws up talent evaluation. Keenum could turn into the next Drew Brees or he could turn into the next Kevin Kolb. Whatever he turns into isn't going to be because of whatever system he ran in college. It's going to be because he was never given the same opportunity that a guy like RG3 or Kolb was given, at least in large part. And that's really the root of the Keenum debate. You have people arguing that he should get a chance to fail and you have people arguing that he should not. The people arguing he should not largely base their argument on stupid **** like the fact that he wasn't drafted, which is circular logic, or that he's only 6' tall. The only times anyone has seen Keenum play, he's been impressive. Yes, it was college and preseason, so what's the step after that?

What else could Keenum do to make some of y'all give him a chance? (not aimed at you specifically Mr Tex)

Sumlin never coached under Briles. Sumlin came from OU and they ran the system that Mike Leach installed when he was OC at OU before he took the Tech job. The system Art Briles uses is a lot different from the Mike Leach/ Dana Holgerson Air Raid that was run at OU/Tech/UH/A$M.
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Old 10-09-2013   #17
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Default Re: Keenum vs Manziel (Sumlin System)

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Originally Posted by texanhead08 View Post
Sumlin never coached under Briles. Sumlin came from OU and they ran the system that Mike Leach installed when he was OC at OU before he took the Tech job. The system Art Briles uses is a lot different from the Mike Leach/ Dana Holgerson Air Raid that was run at OU/Tech/UH/A$M.
Correct. http://college-football-coaches.find...s-Kevin-Sumlin
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Old 10-08-2013   #18
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Default Re: Keenum vs Manziel (Sumlin System)

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Originally Posted by legacy_gt View Post
Not sure if this was posted.

But it is very entertaining considering people would like to draft Johnny.
Check it if you haven't read it before.

http://sportswunderkind.com/johnny-m...f-case-keenum/
I caught hell in the johnny manziel thread saying pretty much everything this guy said...Manziel isnt anymore talented than Case...i'd argue case is more talented than Manziel....the biggest thing that separates them in what they were able to achieve in terms of individual accolades and team success is talent around them and conference bias.

As i said in the manziel thread, people were enamored with his numbers and shocked that he was able to put up numbers in the mighty SEC...dont. Get me wrong, they were good for a freshman but certainly not heisman worthy. Over half of his TD's came against non-SEC teams. He performed great against Bama and was a big reason why they won...but its not like we hadnt seen that before. Hell, A&M's own Reggie Mcneal did the same thing to OU when they were #1 as a frosh.....and he came off the bench to do it.

the reality of it is is that conference bias is the single biggest thing
That screws up evaluating talent.
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