Originally Posted by IDEXAN
I'm guessing you've never played football ? OK, well I have, both in high school and in college, though I assure my collegiate football experience was very unremarkable and the scholastic end of it not much better. But while playing in HS and college, I can't tell you how many incidents I've seen of bullying, varying degrees to be sure. And actually a couple of them were pretty flagrant, pretty nasty situations in other words. It's part of the territory, it's a very, very physical sport played by some really tough guys, certainly at the NFL level. And it's also tough mentally and psychologically because much of it is about being the most macho person in the contest, winning whichever mano-a-mano contest a player might be involved in that's always playing out on the field be it CB vs WR, OT vs edge-rusher, OC vs NT, TE vs LB, etc. In other words, a guy has to have a certain mentality or psyche along with athletic talent, or he's not got what it takes for serious football, certainly not pro ball. And seminars or sensitive training or whatever aren't gonna correct the situation, not for the bully or his victim. Best solution would be to change occupations to office work, or something, anything that's civilized because pro football isn't.
Originally Posted by IDEXAN
I'm gonna have to do this Jen, I don't want to, but I must to make my point.
While I appreciate the gentlemanly salutation, and I think it's mighty white of you to do so, you didn't make a point at all related to the topic that seems to be at the core of this.
And that's not Martin's 'wussiness' and the insistence on pushing topics of race anticipation and the wussification of the NFL.
Your post said you peaked in an unremarkable college career. So how in the world do you understand what would be going on in a Dolphins NFL locker room? Using yourself as the referent and then arriving at a conclusion based on such a faulty premise surely leads to a faulty conclusion, no?
Instead of going after the party that appears to be a demanding, imposing bully with a track record of less-than-stellar acts on and off the field and a history of bullying others (once bullied himself) who might also be a racist - you're going after the victim and psychoanalyzing.
To what end?
The wussification of the NFL? Preemptive marginalization of a potentially legitimate issue (racism) before we even know any details?
To compare your locker room to his and your bullying experience to his strikes me as a misstep out of the posting gates, conceptually. After that, the comparison (and righteousness) just got worse. I think basing psychoanalysis using such flimsy criteria isn't the most constructive way to go about marginalizing Martin.
The entire post just looked like an end around for some strutting, chestthumping machismo that adds nothing to the thread, in tone or content. And I think it takes some measure of courage to come out the way he has. I don't think you really understand the scope and variety of bullying - I know I don't. And I've seen all sorts of types in all sorts of contexts. I don't see how anyone can label his actions as cowardly or wussy. He had a lot to risk by bringing this to light, acting as he did. I'm not going to valorize him as a hero, but I don't think he's nearly as frail or sheepish as you do.
If this gets Incognito out of the league, renders him an untouchable - I think maybe the league is better off.
I think talking about his actions and the systems that actively/passively supported it are also worth talking about. These seem to be the bigger issues.