Originally Posted by cstyle42
It's both and it has been both. If you honestly put Kubiak and Schaub against Harbough and Flacco who do you truly thinks wins? Right now looking at it like this makes me think we should be 2-1 but will be 2-3 after going against tye former usc coach/Russell Wilson then Harbough/kap.
Isolated in a bubble with identical teams? It is probably a coin flip. Save me the "but look at their history".
Before last year Flacco had the same reputation that many attribute to Schaub. The Coaches aren't even close?
It gets so old hearing how Kubiak has been her for sooooo long and done nothing. Harbaugh inherited Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Hiloti Nata, Terrel Sugs, Bart Scott, Willis McGahee, Derick Mason, Jonathan Ogden, Todd Heap and then got to draft Flacco and Rice his first year.
Those players went on to start hundreds of games for either the Ravens or other teams for YEARS.
His team was one season removed from 13-3 and then the year before he got there was 5-11 after McNair went down and Kyle Boller and after staring 4-4 they lost 7 of 8 with Boller.
Kubiak inherited Andre Johnson. No HOF tackles, no HOF LBrs, no HOF safety, no top 20 RB. His RB? Ron Dayne. Johnson and Daniels are the only names even mentionable on the best players at their position on offense. Mario Williams was a top tier player and I'll give you Ryans. That's it.
Now lets look at 2009. Both teams went 9-7.
QB: Joe Flacco - Matt Schaub --- wash
RB: Ray Rice - Slayton --- adv BAL
WR: Mason - Johnson --- adv Hou
WR: Clayton - Walter --- wash
TE: Heap - Daniels --- wash
LT: Gaither - Brown --- adv Bal
LG: Grubs - Studdard --- adv Bal
C: Birk - Meyers --- adv Bal (both Brown and Meyers were terrible in 09)
RG: Chester - White --- adv Bal (seriously, a bloody tampon was more likely to block)
RT: Oher - Winston --- adv Hou
FB: McClain - Leach --- adv Hou (but close, McClain was great too)
Front 7: Nata, Kelly Gregg, Dwan Edwards, Terrell Suggs, Tavares Gooden, Ray Lewis, Jarret Johnson
Antonio Smith, Shaun Cody, Amobi Okoye, Mario Williams, Brian Cushing, Demeco Ryans Zach Diles
Umm... you tell me...
CB: Fabian Washington - Robinson(5 games)/Bennett --- adv Bal
CB: Domonique Foxworth - Glover Quinn --- adv Bal
SS: Dawan Landry - Bernart Pollard --- wash
FS: Ed Reed -Eugene Wilson (stop laughing)
The team won a SB with was together for 5 years as a core.
Take Flacco and Schaub out of the equation... at what point did the Texans accrue a similar talent level? Everyone points to Flacco as so much better than Schaub in the playoffs? That is laughable. Prior to last year:
134/247 1532 yards, 8td, 8int 54% comp 6 yds/att and a QB rating of 70.
That leaves you with one of two options. Either Flacco got hot or get got better with age. We are all talking about him as "clutch".... give me a break.
That doesn't mean that Schaub is all world, there are 3 QBs that are all world, no more. Schaub and Flacco are very similar QBs really. To say you can't win a SB with Schaub is ridiculous though. Before you call for his head, how many options do you have for QBs you CAN win a SB with if you can't win with Schaub?
You can "rank QBs" if you want but realistically there are a few groups of QBs. 18, 12 and Rogers. Class of their own. If you don't have one of those three you don't have an "elite" qb. The next group includes everyone from Eli to Romo to Schaub and Flacco. They are all good QBs that have a weakness that has to be hidden or at least not manifest itself. The argument to get rid of Schaub would have to include a way to get an all world QB. Sure, it may happen and maybe Luck or RGIII are that guy but you aren't going to get rid of Schaub and get one that same year. If you want to plan for the future, that's fine but you are better served to build around Schaub (which I think we've done pretty well actually) or you have to give up on the next couple of years while you groom his successor.
The truth is probably closer to "if a guy can get you to the playoffs he CAN win a superbowl" but that doesn't mean he will. People can lambast the coach/qb combination but that someone doesn't win a superbowl doesn't mean they aren't "capable" it means it didn't happen. There are several teams that CAN win a superbowl every year but not every team that CAN win WILL. Some teams that SHOULDN'T win SBs get lucky and do. Some teams that SHOULD win get unlucky and don't (Patriots v. Giants anyone)?
Sure, go out and tell me I'm wrong with some subjective "I know what I'm talking about because I've watched the game". Tell me I'm a "homer" or a "sunshine pumper"... then explain how an objective look at history proves your point and not mine.
Manning "Couldn't win a SB" for years. Hell, he couldn't win a playoff game. Brady came out of nowhere. Marino got to one.. and then? Elway "couldn't win the big one on his own" despite being captain comeback and then Dilfer wins one.
Big Ben won one his second year. Was he a better QB then that at any point since? Analyzing these games and acting as if somehow history proves what is possible and disproves that which hasn't happened yet is stupid. It would be really nice if someone that keeps saying we can't win with this or that... ok... come up with a real plan (some detail please) that gets us to where you think we need to be instead of screaming how "this sucks get rid of Schaub". Oh and by the way, we may not ever win a SB with Schaub. I'm sure that in 5 years you'd love to find me and remind me of that point... but the odds are stacked in your favor every year. If 10 teams are in the upper tier with a possibility to win and Houston stays in that group for the next 5 years then the odds of us winning one in the next 5 years are somewhere around 30%. So sit and complain, fine. Sit and get mad, fine but don't turn around and tell me that you are somehow "objective" when all you are analyzing is a hand full of plays over the last 4 years acting as if you're a) in the huddle or b) know the playcall and can actually diagnose what went wrong.
The "QB/WR/TE" formula recently is not "get a great QB and a great WR" it is "Get a QB that can run your offense and load up with 3-5 targets forcing the defense to pull nickel and dime backs off the bench and play 1/3 - 50% of the snaps. Ever watch a Pats game? Look at the Broncos or the Pack... How do they win? They spread opposition out and get rid of the ball quickly.