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Old 02-19-2013   #40
tru80texan
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Default Re: Vance Joseph on DBs

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
All rookies are going to display flaws when coming to the NFL. Whether his name is Joe Haden, Patrick Patterson, Kyle Wilson, or Kareem Jackson.


First of all, the "didn't turn his head around" is overplayed by guys who don't know what they are looking at. It's called pass interference. If you don't touch the guy, it's not interference no matter where your head is. You won't find a coach that won't teach a DB how to play a receiver face to face.

There is a time to look for the ball & there is a time to play the receiver. There is also a time when the player should play the ball but if that time has passed, he should play the reciever. Rookies find themselves in the latter situation way too often, but as long as they don't touch the receiver, it's all good. The ref may call it, but in the film room the coach is going to say, "You should have turned there, but you didn't. You recovered fine, don't worry about the ref."

Then as far as turning his hips..... you either got it or you don't. You're not going to take a guy who doesn't have it & teach it to him in three years. Learning how fast an NFL receiver will get on top of you, learning how fast an NFL receiver will blow right past you, learning how strong an NFL receiver is, learning how fast and strong an NFL receivers hands are, even the most NFL ready corner is going to have a learning curve here, regardless what his name is.



Do you not think Joe Haden, Kyle Wilson, and Patrick Peterson are better at those basic cornerback techniques now than they were when they were rookies? Do you think Glover Quin & Devin McCourty might not have that ability & maybe that's why they're playing safety now & not corner?



If I've got Derrell Revis on one side of the field, then I've got help on my side of the field, I'm not on an Island as much as Kareem was. I'm able to face the QB longer & jump routes, and gamble. My mistakes won't look so bad, because someone is going to stop Roy Williams from running 70 yards to the endzone.

If you watched Kareem play as a rookie, you could see he had speed, he had cover skills, he was physical at the line, & he was a sure tackler. He made some rookie mistakes, he got beat by some veteran receivers (& some not so veteran receivers). But if you only focused on the bad plays & did not pay attention to the good plays (& there were a lot more good plays), then yeah I can understand thinking he was the worst CB in the league.

But to believe he went from the worst CB in the league to one of the best in 3 seasons... yeah, that was all coaching. I understand if you don't think he's one of the best, but he is.

One of the best...wow. Your judgement is a bit skewed w/out a doubt. You don't dub a player "one of the best" based on one season. Plain & simple.

Kareem was horrid in every aspect as a rookie. Manhandled in press coverage(which is ironic that you mentioned Roy Williams because he literally tossed KJ to the side as he caught & ran for a TD), very poor awareness & recognition(biting on double moves & not looking for the ball), poor technique & foot work(often slipping to the ground), poor tackling, & the aspect that can't be taken away was his speed but it was often deemed a nonfactor as his other flaws often left him in positions where he could not recover w/ his speed. There were slim to no bright spots & maybe you should reference back to those games because it seems your memory is failing you in the worse way. I understand being a fan of a player, but to divert blame & disregard a players former faults that have already been acknowledged by many seems just foolish to me. KJ never displayed the potential that Revis, Peterson, or Haden did as rookies & comparing him to such players once again shows an act of foolishness imo. Peterson & Haden played on bad teams, & still do, so please don't try the excuse about surrounding talent because it simply does not hold water.

KJ' s 2nd season showed a small improvement, but he was still amongst the worst at the position. With that being said he did show noticeable improvement in year 3 but hardly enough to deem him 1 of the best. He was not an All Pro nor was he a Pro Bowler. He simply got better w/ still more room to improve. Let's hope it continues, but let's please not be foolish enough to believe we can simply deny, erase, or rewrite his history because you don't like it. That's not how it works & he seems to have finally learned from his past failures.
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