Originally Posted by eriadoc
While I agree with KT's post and think it's a good one, let me offer an alternative perspective that ties in at the end.
Kubiak should absolutely be judged on those guys that KT said. And where I was optimistic about Kubiak back in the day was based on what he had done with Plummer and Griese. He took two guys that really weren't good and made them good enough to have Pro Bowl years. Griese actually did go to the Pro Bowl. When you add to that the fact that Elway and Young, who were already HOFers, had their best seasons under Kubiak, it showed to me he could take a good QB and elevate their game even more. I still believe that to be true.
What I do not believe to be true is that he can identify that really good QB to elevate. Griese - Plummer - Schaub establishes a pattern. Either he's arrogant enough to believe that he doesn't need a great talent at QB, or he's too insecure to handle a great talent at QB, or he simply can't identify one. Maybe he believes his system is good enough to compensate for the lack of talent at that position. I don't know. But I've lost faith in Kubiak, that's for sure.
I never thought Griese was really good. He was more average to me or slightly above it. If he made the Pro Bowl it was probably more like a Pro Bowl year like Schaub had this season.
As far as Plummer goes, he was very good before coming to Denver. He was just stuck on a complete abomination of a team with the Cardinals. Those were some awful Cardinals teams, but Plummer had shown for years that he was mobile and could make plays. It wasn't a surprise at all to see Denver's offense improve a lot with Plummer where they ended up in the AFC Championship game beating the patriots in round 2. Plummer got burnt out though, and seemed to really hate playing football after while. I don't know if the Cardinals years did that to him or what, but he had enough once he was traded to another struggling franchise in the Bucs.
Elway was Elway though. He is one of the best of all time for a reason, and I don't think he was the type that needed some great system or coach to make him look great. Elway was one of the best improv QB's I've ever seen in this league especially in the clutch. I think that Kubiak benefited more from having Elway then Elway having Kubiak, but that's just my opinion.