Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com

Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/index.php)
-   Texans Talk (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=56)
-   -   Is there a problem with Yates? (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99871)

keyser 04-26-2013 12:44 AM

Is there a problem with Yates?
 
In following the draft, I see a lot of people suggesting we take a QB (Geno Smith particularly, though I see some others mentioned for round 2-3). I'm wondering if there is some problem with TJ Yates that I missed?

I know there are people unhappy with Schaub, but are people also unhappy with Yates? Or, was there an injury or something that I missed? Two seasons ago, I thought Yates looked good, and I thought most people were pretty happy with him. Did I miss something last year that has made people think he has regressed or did he get hurt or something?

Anyone new we draft is going to be sitting behind Schaub (and I would have thought Yates) for a year or two in any case. And, it's not as though we have an opportunity to draft Andrew Luck or something this year. Anyone we draft is going to be sitting for a while first, with the hope that he'll eventually be able to be a starting-quaity QB. It seems to me that we already have that in Yates (unless I missed something), and given that we have areas where we need players, I don't get why we would spend a high-round pick on some "project" QB.

I haven't followed the draft as closely this year, so maybe the QB prospects are better than I realize, but it seems odd for us to use one of our higher remainnig draft picks on a position where I thought we were already OK, and we have little chance of a short-term improvement from the pick.

DocBar 04-26-2013 01:02 AM

Re: Is there a problem with Yates?
 
From everything I've seen or read, Kubes is still pretty high on Yates and Keenum. I'd be shocked if they took a QB before the 5th. I would take a slide of historic proportions, imho.

This year is Yates' year to show a big jump and prove he can push Schaub for the starting job. If he doesn't do that, then Keenum would likely get a shot to show what he can do and start pushing Yates for the back up position.

Jules Winnfield 04-26-2013 01:13 AM

Re: Is there a problem with Yates?
 
yea.

he sucks.

Dont give that he's a rookie bullcrap.

That's no longer an excuse with RG3, Wilson, and Luck.

The fact that kubiak is high on him makes me feel even more confident that he sucks.

Kubiak is absolute trash when picking QBs:

Schaub
Orlovsky
Rosencopter
Beck
Grossman
Yates
Keenum

There's a trend here folks. I would absolutely love to take a shot at Geno Smith who will be the next randy moss in this draft (ridiculous personal character shots which in turn gets passed over which in turn creates a huge chip on his shoulder which in turn drives him to be a great player).

We get Geno Smith that is a threat to Schaub. It will push schaub. Schaub will finally start looking over his shoulder. Something that has never happened to schaub.

I would absolutely take a gamble on Geno Smith.

The Pencil Neck 04-26-2013 01:21 AM

Re: Is there a problem with Yates?
 
There are fans that think Schaub can't get it done and they don't think Yates or Keenum can, either. So they want to take whatever QB happens to be around in a class of crap QBs.

And then there's 76Texan who's totally convinced himself that Keenum is a future HOFer.

Yates showed a lot of guts his rookie year but in the limited time he's had since then, he hasn't shown any progress.

I think next year will have a better crop of QBs (from what I've heard) so I think next year is when we draft Schaub's replacement and give him a couple of years to get up to speed. Assuming, of course, that Yates isn't progressing and ready to take the spot.

htownfan32 04-26-2013 01:25 AM

Re: Is there a problem with Yates?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield (Post 2156409)
yea.

he sucks.

Dont give that he's a rookie bullcrap.

That's no longer an excuse with RG3, Wilson, and Luck.

The fact that kubiak is high on him makes me feel even more confident that he sucks.

Kubiak is absolute trash when picking QBs:

Schaub
Orlovsky
Rosencopter
Beck
Grossman

Yates
Keenum

There's a trend here folks. I would absolutely love to take a shot at Geno Smith who will be the next randy moss in this draft (ridiculous personal character shots which in turn gets passed over which in turn creates a huge chip on his shoulder which in turn drives him to be a great player).

We get Geno Smith that is a threat to Schaub. It will push schaub. Schaub will finally start looking over his shoulder. Something that has never happened to schaub.

I would absolutely take a gamble on Geno Smith.

Kubiak did not pick any of the bolded QBs. They were on this team one time or another, but Kubiak has only drafted Yates and Brink iirc. Keenum was UDFA.

htownfan32 04-26-2013 01:27 AM

Re: Is there a problem with Yates?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck (Post 2156414)
There are fans that think Schaub can't get it done and they don't think Yates or Keenum can, either. So they want to take whatever QB happens to be around in a class of crap QBs.

And then there's 76Texan who's totally convinced himself that Keenum is a future HOFer.

Yates showed a lot of guts his rookie year but in the limited time he's had since then, he hasn't shown any progress.

I think next year will have a better crop of QBs (from what I've heard) so I think next year is when we draft Schaub's replacement and give him a couple of years to get up to speed. Assuming, of course, that Yates isn't progressing and ready to take the spot.

Tajh mutha friggin Boyd

Jules Winnfield 04-26-2013 01:52 AM

Re: Is there a problem with Yates?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by htownfan32 (Post 2156415)
Kubiak did not pick any of the bolded QBs. They were on this team one time or another, but Kubiak has only drafted Yates and Brink iirc. Keenum was UDFA.


lol wut? are you serious?

nvm, you're an aggie.

The Pencil Neck 04-26-2013 02:04 AM

Re: Is there a problem with Yates?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield (Post 2156422)
lol wut? are you serious?

nvm, you're an aggie.

Some people interpret the word "pick" as "drafted". Especially around the draft.

Corrosion 04-26-2013 02:04 AM

Re: Is there a problem with Yates?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield (Post 2156409)
yea.

he sucks.

Dont give that he's a rookie bullcrap.

That's no longer an excuse with RG3, Wilson, and Luck.

The fact that kubiak is high on him makes me feel even more confident that he sucks.

Kubiak is absolute trash when picking QBs:

Schaub
Orlovsky
Rosencopter
Beck
Grossman
Yates
Keenum

There's a trend here folks.

Yep , there's a trend here .... a bunch of bargin bin picks , UDFA's and rejects compared to the top two picks in last years draft.

Yates won you a playoff game as a rookie - neither RG3 or Luck can say that much.

Schaub is one of a handfull of QB's to throw for 4500+ in back to back seasons and was well on his way to a 3rd consecutive before getting fallen on by a fat ass. He may never be the same but pre injury I felt like he could take us to a championship - now Im not so sure.

Rosencoptor played pretty well for a stretch .... the dude tried to make a damn play , just too bad it didnt go his way and ended up a turnover .... I dont blame the guy for trying to win himself a starting job. Sh!t happens and he never got a change to atone for that mistake.


Orlovsky , Beck and Grossman ..... were brought in as backups to the backup. Did you really expect them to be world beaters on par with the top two picks in the entire draft ?!


Hard to say Kubiak is trash at picking QB's when he's never used a premium pick on one (outside of the trade for Schaub who has played well when healthy) and got a playoff win from a 5th round rookie ....




Quote:

Originally Posted by htownfan32 (Post 2156417)
Tajh mutha friggin Boyd


Im pretty high on Boyd myself .... Total package , just wish he were a little taller.

thunderkyss 04-26-2013 04:01 AM

Re: Is there a problem with Yates?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Corrosion (Post 2156426)
Yates won you a playoff game as a rookie - neither RG3 or Luck can say that much.

Look, if you're going to play the game, you have to know the rules.
  1. Stats don't count when they favor Schaub/Yates
  2. Stats rule when we're talking about anyone but Schaub/Yates
  3. Wins don't count when we're talking about Schaub/Yates
  4. Play-off wins are the highest standard, unless you're talking about Schaub/Yates
  5. The eyeball test is only valid if it supporst a "Schaub/Yates sucks argument"

You've been around here long enough to know this. It is unacceptable for you to post in blatant disregard for these rules.


My opinion is that Schaub is our starter & until he is not our starter, or the F.O. questions his ability to be our starter, Tj Yates is the kind of back up we need. We can win with Tj. All of Schaub's flaws are instantly cured with the kid. But the intangibles, the thing we don't know about GenoSmith, TylerBray, or even Kirk Cousins.... the ability to read a defense, the ability to run our offense efficiently... odds are better that Tj is better prepared than any of them.

I see Tj as a stop gap. If something happens to Matt, Tj will come in & give us reasonable opportunity to win. He might be special & be able to earn the starting job.

At the very least, he'll give us the option to wait until there is a starter available within our reach, without having to spend more than we can afford.

htownfan32 04-26-2013 05:22 AM

Re: Is there a problem with Yates?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield (Post 2156422)
lol wut? are you serious?

nvm, you're an aggie.

So you're saying that Kubiak drafted
Orlovsky, drafted by the Lions,
Schaub, drafted by the Falcons,
Rosenfels, drafted by the Skins,
Beck, drafted by the Dolphins,
Grossman, drafted by the Bears,
and Keenum, who went undrafted.

Riiiight. Kubiak's definitely worked for all those teams.

If you're saying he brought them in as FAs (why you would call that a "pick" is beyond me), that's a different story. In which case, Rosenfels was good except for the copter move, Keenum is unproven (and a UDFA with low expectations), Grossman Beck and Orlovsky are nothing more than backups (and never expected to start for us). None of these guys were meant to be starters for us. If we drafted say Blaine Gabbert in the first round, yes, that would be a fail. If we sign Grossman and Beck as 3rd stringers, how on earth is that reflective of our playing in a game? How much playing time did either see for us?

C'mon. It's not like these guys were meant to be our franchise QBs. Only Schaub is different in that regard. Sometimes it helps to put your thinking cap on.

Lucky 04-26-2013 07:03 AM

Re: Is there a problem with Yates?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield (Post 2156409)
Kubiak is absolute trash when picking QBs:

There's a trend here folks. I would absolutely love to take a shot at Geno Smith who will be the next randy moss in this draft (ridiculous personal character shots which in turn gets passed over which in turn creates a huge chip on his shoulder which in turn drives him to be a great player).

We get Geno Smith that is a threat to Schaub. It will push schaub. Schaub will finally start looking over his shoulder. Something that has never happened to schaub.

I would absolutely take a gamble on Geno Smith.

But by your logic, Kubiak is trash picking QBs. And if the Texans were to take Geno, Kubiak would have picked him. Which would make Geno Smith trash. Why should the Texans draft another trash QB?

Texanmike02 04-26-2013 07:41 AM

Re: Is there a problem with Yates?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by keyser (Post 2156399)
In following the draft, I see a lot of people suggesting we take a QB (Geno Smith particularly, though I see some others mentioned for round 2-3). I'm wondering if there is some problem with TJ Yates that I missed?

I know there are people unhappy with Schaub, but are people also unhappy with Yates? Or, was there an injury or something that I missed? Two seasons ago, I thought Yates looked good, and I thought most people were pretty happy with him. Did I miss something last year that has made people think he has regressed or did he get hurt or something?

Anyone new we draft is going to be sitting behind Schaub (and I would have thought Yates) for a year or two in any case. And, it's not as though we have an opportunity to draft Andrew Luck or something this year. Anyone we draft is going to be sitting for a while first, with the hope that he'll eventually be able to be a starting-quaity QB. It seems to me that we already have that in Yates (unless I missed something), and given that we have areas where we need players, I don't get why we would spend a high-round pick on some "project" QB.

I haven't followed the draft as closely this year, so maybe the QB prospects are better than I realize, but it seems odd for us to use one of our higher remainnig draft picks on a position where I thought we were already OK, and we have little chance of a short-term improvement from the pick.

I'll give you my thoughts:

I'm Texans fan. Right now I am a Schaub fan because I think you can win with him right now but I don't think he has 3 or 4 more years left. I want to draft his replacement and I think that with Geno you can do that and let him marinate in the offence a little before you roll him out. That is not a knock on Yates either. You can either Favre Geno or you can Rodgers him, it doesn't matter to me but I think there is a lot of value in Geno at the beginning of the second round. Of course I don't think we'll have a shot at him given the bedazzled cats are probably going to draft him with the first pick tonight.

As it stands this team's window is 2 years. Hopefully D'andre can come in and replace AJ as the number 1 in time. If that happens then we really just need to replace Schaub and keep trucking.

This team is set up to be a Pittsburgh kind of team at this point. We are so young at most positions and have decent depth, I want to see this window stay open for a decade and we have that opportunity if we start thinking forward just a little bit. If you don't get Schaub's replacement on the roster soon then you're gonna shut that window before too long. That is not to say that Yates isn't the next guy, it is to say that we don't know that for sure and having two potential sucessors is better than having one.

I'm not down on Yates or Schaub I'm just up on having multiple options.

Mike

Texan_Bill 04-26-2013 07:51 AM

Re: Is there a problem with Yates?
 
:popcorn:

TexanSam 04-26-2013 07:54 AM

Re: Is there a problem with Yates?
 
Yates just reminds me of a guy who will be a career backup.

deucetx 04-26-2013 07:59 AM

Re: Is there a problem with Yates?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Corrosion (Post 2156426)
Yates won you a playoff game as a rookie - neither RG3 or Luck can say that much.

He didn't win the game. The Texans did. Yates was a whopping 11/20 for 159 yards and 1td. He didn't shoulder the team and win the game. The best thing he did in the game was turn around and hand it off to the guy who broke for 153yards, 2td's and had a 6.4average. I think RG3 and Luck have just a tad bit more to do with their offense than Yates did. Freaking John Beck could have won that game.

As for Yates, he is what he is. Folks aren't high on him (most aren't) because he hasn't shown much progress from one season to the next. He still stared down receivers and hasn't shown much of a ceiling at this point for potential. At this point he doesn't bring anything to the table you can't find elsewhere. He played tough that rookie year but we also didn't count on him. We relied on other weapons and you want to be able to count on your starting quarterback to be more than a handoff guy.

Hopefully he will progress but just because you have him you still keep pulling talent into the position. Schaub isn't getting any younger after all. You want someone you can develop and if you put all your chips on Yates despite that he hasn't shown progress and he turns out to not take that next step you are screwed. Call it having a plan B....or C in this matter.

GNTLEWOLF 04-26-2013 08:17 AM

Re: Is there a problem with Yates?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Texanmike02 (Post 2156451)
I'll give you my thoughts:

I'm Texans fan. Right now I am a Schaub fan because I think you can win with him right now but I don't think he has 3 or 4 more years left. I want to draft his replacement and I think that with Geno you can do that and let him marinate in the offence a little before you roll him out. That is not a knock on Yates either. You can either Favre Geno or you can Rodgers him, it doesn't matter to me but I think there is a lot of value in Geno at the beginning of the second round. Of course I don't think we'll have a shot at him given the bedazzled cats are probably going to draft him with the first pick tonight.

As it stands this team's window is 2 years. Hopefully D'andre can come in and replace AJ as the number 1 in time. If that happens then we really just need to replace Schaub and keep trucking.

This team is set up to be a Pittsburgh kind of team at this point. We are so young at most positions and have decent depth, I want to see this window stay open for a decade and we have that opportunity if we start thinking forward just a little bit. If you don't get Schaub's replacement on the roster soon then you're gonna shut that window before too long. That is not to say that Yates isn't the next guy, it is to say that we don't know that for sure and having two potential sucessors is better than having one.

I'm not down on Yates or Schaub I'm just up on having multiple options.

Mike

I have been up all night because of my job but,I like this explainantion. It seems reasonable and well thought out instead of reactionary or hostile to any person or group of persons. It is an explainantion rather than an argument. It is not demeaning to either Schaub or Yates(nor Kubiak), but allows one to scratch that itch of slight dissatisfaction without having to either be a sunshiner or a hater. Looks to the future and asks that bases be covered without disregarding anyone's talent or contributions to the team. REP

Hervoyel 04-26-2013 09:05 AM

Re: Is there a problem with Yates?
 
I am not a fan of Schaub "the player" nor am I a fan of Yates "the player". Both great guys I'm sure but neither is the answer to the QB question in my mind. Schaub we've seen for years and Yates I think we've seen enough of. Career backup. That's it.

I'm on record as ready to see what comes after the Schaub era but at no point have I ever really thought that would be the Yates era.

All this fecal matter that Jules is spewing about Kubiak being lousy at picking QB's though is just that. Fecal matter. That's a list of reclamation projects, late round flyers, and UDFA toys he's picked up over the years to tinker with. Kubiak always has a project QB hanging around somewhere because he's a guy who likes to sift through the rubble to see if someone else missed something.

That's not a bad thing. That's actually a great thing. For all the reasons there are to ***** about Kubiak I'm surprised that anyone would complain about him looking for passed-over talent.

When he's serious about finding a replacement for Schaub he'll draft that guy and it won't be in the 4th or 5th round.

Yates isn't going to be the starter here. He's going to be our Cody Carlson but that's about it.

eriadoc 04-26-2013 09:10 AM

Re: Is there a problem with Yates?
 
Rookies make mistakes. Hell, Peyton Manning threw something like 28 INTs his rookie year. I don't think anyone is putting Yates in the Manning/Brady/Brees/Rodgers group, but the guy has shown some moxie and some ability. I'd like to see what he can do. I already know what Schaub can do. Yates has had some time to develop. Now he just needs experience.

That doesn't mean I don't want the Texans to pick a QB, but maybe not this year. I'm not high on Barkley, Nassib, or even Smith.

Watch Yates' response to the pressure throughout this drive (esp. the 1:55 and 3:25 marks) and think back to Schaub last year. The guy has something that is worth developing.

HuttoKarl 04-26-2013 09:34 AM

Re: Is there a problem with Yates?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by htownfan32 (Post 2156415)
Kubiak did not pick any of the bolded QBs. They were on this team one time or another, but Kubiak has only drafted Yates and Brink iirc. Keenum was UDFA.

I love that there is so much hatred for Schaub out there...since he came on board, we've been pretty successful. He's not the best QB in the league by any stretch, but he's pretty damn good. I'm very happy we have him and not someone like Vince Young (remember the clamoring for that guy), HWSNBN, or some chump like Jimmy Claussen or Mark Dirty Sanchez.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:57 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger