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-   -   ProFootballFocus FA safety ranking (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98996)

76Texan 03-06-2013 09:50 AM

ProFootballFocus FA safety ranking
 
Quin is graded at #18 among Free Agents available.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...gent-safeties/

How much should the Texans offer him, whether you agree with their grading or not.

deucetx 03-06-2013 10:09 AM

Re: ProFootballFocus FA safety ranking
 
I like the number a lot of guys are tossing around here on the boards. Somewhere in the ballpark of $3-4 million per and maybe 4 years. Seems pretty reasonable to me but with free agency you never know. NFL owners/GM's start acting like rappers in a strip club and let it rain to absurd amounts.

tru80texan 03-06-2013 10:15 AM

Re: ProFootballFocus FA safety ranking
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 76Texan (Post 2132082)
Quin is graded at #18 among Free Agents available.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...gent-safeties/

How much should the Texans offer him, whether you agree with their grading or not.

Well considering by your sites own disclaimer, the rating doesn't tell the whole story. There are plenty of names on that list ahead of Quin who are not quite as good or as young as Quin IMO. Especially if you consider a player such as Chung who wasn't even starting at the end of the season for his respective team.

I obviously believe he is higher then #18 & ultimately I believe he should be paid less then Manning, in the $3-4M/year range possibly. I wouldn't be surprised if someone offered him more because just as the Texans did w/ Manning, who wasn't a starter in Chicago, someone will pay a bit more for potential & youth. The difference is Quin is a starter while Manning never was for a long duration w/ the Bears.

eriadoc 03-06-2013 10:30 AM

Re: ProFootballFocus FA safety ranking
 
FWIW, only 4 guys ahead of him on that list took as many or more snaps, and only 4 more even took 70% of his snaps. Ed Reed took 22 more snaps and is rated well below Quin on this list. LaRon Landry was rated below even Reed and took 6 fewer snaps than Quin.

Vinny 03-06-2013 10:34 AM

Re: ProFootballFocus FA safety ranking
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by eriadoc (Post 2132106)
FWIW, only 4 guys ahead of him on that list took as many or more snaps, and only 4 more even took 70% of his snaps. Ed Reed took 22 more snaps and is rated well below Quin on this list. LaRon Landry was rated below even Reed and took 6 fewer snaps than Quin.

Most of the players under him are chumps. All the players above him can play. Reed is an exception because of his age (not a chump).

tru80texan 03-06-2013 10:44 AM

Re: ProFootballFocus FA safety ranking
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny (Post 2132115)
Most of the players under him are chumps. All the players above him can play. Reed is an exception because of his age (not a chump).

I don't know about that one. I have a hard time believing players such as Sanders, Spievey, Leonhard & a few others listed are better then Quin. I think some of that is supported by their lack of snap counts compared to Quin. Im even willing to throw Chung in there as below Quin because he has regressed as of late.

Vinny 03-06-2013 10:50 AM

Re: ProFootballFocus FA safety ranking
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tru80texan (Post 2132121)
I don't know about that one. I have a hard time believing players such as Sanders, Spievey, Leonhard & a few others listed are better then Quin. I think some of that is supported by their lack of snap counts compared to Quin. Im even willing to throw Chung in there as below Quin because he has regressed as of late.

You can argue the merits of any of those above him but you gotta admit, the list of players under him are largely "just a guys". Quin is an OK player...but he's nothing special.

76Texan 03-06-2013 10:55 AM

Re: ProFootballFocus FA safety ranking
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tru80texan (Post 2132121)
I don't know about that one. I have a hard time believing players such as Sanders, Spievey, Leonhard & a few others listed are better then Quin. I think some of that is supported by their lack of snap counts compared to Quin. Im even willing to throw Chung in there as below Quin because he has regressed as of late.

Leonhard just had too many injuries to be a starter; Chung is getting there soon if he can't stay healthy this next year, but as far as playing goes, Quin can't compare with a healthy Chung.

Dutchrudder 03-06-2013 11:02 AM

Re: ProFootballFocus FA safety ranking
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 76Texan (Post 2132132)
Leonhard just had too many injuries to be a starter; Chung is getting there soon if he can't stay healthy this next year, but as far as playing goes, Quin can't compare with a healthy Chung.

Chung was actually the guy I was hoping the Texans would pick when they took Barwin. I wouldn't mind having him in place of Quin if he was cheaper. Both would be nice, but unrealistic given how little this team cares about safeties.

ArlingtonTexan 03-06-2013 11:04 AM

Re: ProFootballFocus FA safety ranking
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny (Post 2132129)
You can argue the merits of any of those above him but you gotta admit, the list of players under him are largely "just a guys". Quin is an OK player...but he's nothing special.

Very similiar to Mike Briesel at OG last season. In a non-salary cap world, a team keeps that player who fits its system perfeectly; now those guys test the market and hope to find the right money/situation for them.

Quin/Manning as a combination is better than either one alone. Individually, quin does not make enough difference making plays and can be exposed when having to cover TEs.

76Texan 03-06-2013 11:05 AM

Re: ProFootballFocus FA safety ranking
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder (Post 2132140)
Chung was actually the guy I was hoping the Texans would pick when they took Barwin. I wouldn't mind having him in place of Quin if he was cheaper. Both would be nice, but unrealistic given how little this team cares about safeties.

Yeah, we were talking about Chung pre-draft; but now I'm concerned about his injury history.

76Texan 03-06-2013 11:13 AM

Re: ProFootballFocus FA safety ranking
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tru80texan (Post 2132095)
Well considering by your sites own disclaimer, the rating doesn't tell the whole story. There are plenty of names on that list ahead of Quin who are not quite as good or as young as Quin IMO. Especially if you consider a player such as Chung who wasn't even starting at the end of the season for his respective team.

I obviously believe he is higher then #18 & ultimately I believe he should be paid less then Manning, in the $3-4M/year range possibly. I wouldn't be surprised if someone offered him more because just as the Texans did w/ Manning, who wasn't a starter in Chicago, someone will pay a bit more for potential & youth. The difference is Quin is a starter while Manning never was for a long duration w/ the Bears.

While the $3-4M salary range is in line with a player of Quin's experience, I can't say that his play deserves it.

The Bears wanted Manning to play at CB, especially at the nickel position (kinda like Quin) and also to return kick; so he wasn't listed as a starter in 08; otherwise, he's a starter since his rookie year. I would say when they moved him to safety full-time, he became the glue of that defense; why the Texans had to offer him so much money to land him.

thunderkyss 03-06-2013 11:25 AM

Re: ProFootballFocus FA safety ranking
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 76Texan (Post 2132082)
Quin is graded at #18 among Free Agents available.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...gent-safeties/

How much should the Texans offer him, whether you agree with their grading or not.

I'd like to pay him in the $3-$4M/yr range. But I would be willing to go as high as $5M..... but since we paid Manning $5M/yr, & I think (and I think Quin & his agent thinks) Quin had a better year than Manning, he should be paid more than Manning.

This PFF rankings is another of their lists that I just don't get. Is Jairus Byrd a better safety than Quin?
I'm sure most people here would probably argue that he is. However, if we replaced Quin with Byrd & had Byrd play the way Quin does..... I don't think anyone would be wanting to keep him.

For what we're asking Quin to do, I do not rank Jairus Byrd higher than Glover. If we were talking about Manning... sure.
May not mean much around here, but Quin had 14 passes defensed in 2012. I believe 2nd only to Watt on our team. 2 INts, 2 FF, 1 sack

76Texan 03-06-2013 11:27 AM

Re: ProFootballFocus FA safety ranking
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderkyss (Post 2132162)
I'd like to pay him in the $3-$4M/yr range. But I would be willing to go as high as $5M..... but since we paid Manning $5M/yr, & I think (and I think Quin & his agent thinks) Quin had a better year than Manning, he should be paid more than Manning.

This PFF rankings is another of their lists that I just don't get. Is Jairus Byrd a better safety than Quin?
I'm sure most people here would probably argue that he is. However, if we replaced Quin with Byrd & had Byrd play the way Quin does..... I don't think anyone would be wanting to keep him.

For what we're asking Quin to do, I do not rank Jairus Byrd higher than Glover. If we were talking about Manning... sure.

I am sure I don't understand what you're trying to say; too confusing, LOL.

Can you rephrase it, please!

thunderkyss 03-06-2013 11:33 AM

Re: ProFootballFocus FA safety ranking
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 76Texan (Post 2132164)
I am sure I don't understand what you're trying to say; too confusing, LOL.

Can you rephrase it, please!


I don't think you can play Byrd in the box like you can Quin.

Byrd is a center fielder, Quin is a smallish thumper.

Quote:

but Quin had 14 passes defensed in 2012. I believe 2nd only to Watt on our team. 2 INts, 2 FF, 1 sack

76Texan 03-06-2013 11:42 AM

Re: ProFootballFocus FA safety ranking
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderkyss (Post 2132168)
I don't think you can play Byrd in the box like you can Quin.

Byrd is a center fielder, Quin is a smallish thumper.

OK; I haven't watched him play lately (Byrd) so I don't know what to make of that.

It doesn't mean he can't play the same position Quin played though.
He was a CB in college and a physical one at that.

thunderkyss 03-06-2013 11:54 AM

Re: ProFootballFocus FA safety ranking
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 76Texan (Post 2132179)
OK; I haven't watched him play lately (Byrd) so I don't know what to make of that.

It doesn't mean he can't play the same position Quin played though.
He was a CB in college and a physical one at that.

Still, you're comparing two players because their both classified as "Safeties" & they go about playing the game totally different. Quin plays like a SS (I don't know it he's listed as a SS, but that's what he plays) & Byrd is a FS.


If you're a team that favors the SS (like the Texans in the past) then you're going to rank Quin higher than Byrd. If you're a team that favors FS, then you'll rank Byrd higher.

Manning is also a "good" cover safety who plays physical, but I don't think he would be as good as Quin playing in the box as much as Quin does, manning up as much as Quin does. I'd prefer if Manning was allowed to roam in deep space, which I think he is much better at.

b0ng 03-06-2013 01:12 PM

Re: ProFootballFocus FA safety ranking
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny (Post 2132129)
You can argue the merits of any of those above him but you gotta admit, the list of players under him are largely "just a guys". Quin is an OK player...but he's nothing special.

The safety position is the NFL is largely "Just Guys" with a few standouts. I'd be willing to bet money that a team that plays man coverage in their secondary (Like the Bengals) is going to take a relatively long and hard look at Glover Quin to replace their SS (who is rated higher than Quin is).

Maybe I'm wrong and none of the teams in the NFL would give Quin the time of day to be a starter. However I see three maybe four guys on that list who people could argue are more desirable SS's.

William Moore
Dashon Goldson
Kenny Phillips (maybe)
George Wilson

76Texan 03-06-2013 01:39 PM

Re: ProFootballFocus FA safety ranking
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderkyss (Post 2132184)
Still, you're comparing two players because their both classified as "Safeties" & they go about playing the game totally different. Quin plays like a SS (I don't know it he's listed as a SS, but that's what he plays) & Byrd is a FS.


If you're a team that favors the SS (like the Texans in the past) then you're going to rank Quin higher than Byrd. If you're a team that favors FS, then you'll rank Byrd higher.

Manning is also a "good" cover safety who plays physical, but I don't think he would be as good as Quin playing in the box as much as Quin does, manning up as much as Quin does. I'd prefer if Manning was allowed to roam in deep space, which I think he is much better at.

Understood!

I'm not comparing any guy though; that was just a list showing how PFF grade those players according to what they think those players were supposed to do their job (whatever that job might be.)

We just don't know if Manning and Byrd can do the same job Quin does better or worse because they weren't asked to do it as often. We can't say one way or another; and with Quin not doing that job very well (not great, not badly), who is to say the other guys can't do it?

It looks like Pollard, in 3 or 4 games that I watched him play last year, did a better job than Quin. (Maybe he finally learns how to do it; maybe the Ravens had a better scheme; maybe they do a better job teaching; heck I don't know.)

deucetx 03-06-2013 02:05 PM

Re: ProFootballFocus FA safety ranking
 
Yeah have to agree with 76 here. No reason to even think Byrd couldn't as we're talking similar body types and Quin is still a corner moved over to safety in the end of things. We're not talking a Bernard Pollard type. And yes, Manning has done it too. He did it for the Bears. He played free safety, nickleback, strong safety then back to free safety during his tenure with the Bears and he was darn good in the box when called upon.

It's basically as all stated. Quin has been all around good but not exceptional at anything. While he had a good amount of passes defended on some accounts (PD's varies from one place to the next) he still allowed a QB rating of 95.9 and was third in touchdowns allowed among safeties with 6. So he is a middle player at this point.

The issue is at this juncture we can't afford to lose a 'solid' contributor due to lack of depth at the spot and a few holes where we need something more and the potential is still there as he hasn't hit the peak year yet.


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