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-   -   Franchise deadline almost here (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98965)

mussop 03-04-2013 09:51 AM

Franchise deadline almost here
 
And no word on Quin or Barwin. Seems we are more likely to lose both if they are allowed to test the open market.

HOU-TEX 03-04-2013 10:04 AM

Re: Franchise deadline almost here
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mussop (Post 2131433)
And no word on Quin or Barwin. Seems we are more likely to lose both if they are allowed to test the open market.

Oh well, neither are worth franchising imo. I'd like them both back, but not if it'll put us in more of a bind than we already are

CretorFrigg 03-04-2013 12:01 PM

Re: Franchise deadline almost here
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HOU-TEX (Post 2131440)
Oh well, neither are worth franchising imo. I'd like them both back, but not if it'll put us in more of a bind than we already are

Agreed, franchising either Quin or Barwin would mean we'd have to overpay them. Neither of them are top 5 at their position. They don't deserve to be paid like one. I wouldn't be against Barwin leaving, but I'd like to see Quin back, and that's the common perception I've noticed around these boards.

I'm confident the FO can work things out with Quin and not have to resort to overpay (franchise) him.

Thorn 03-04-2013 12:34 PM

Re: Franchise deadline almost here
 
I think Barwin is worth more to us than some give him credit for, but not for top 5 pay at the postion. It'll hurt if he leaves, but it'll hurt more if we overpay him. It's not a very good situation for the Texans to be in.

El Tejano 03-04-2013 12:42 PM

Re: Franchise deadline almost here
 
People keep saying that Quin isn't worth keeping and I have to go back and think about how our team was before we had quality safety play.

thunderkyss 03-04-2013 01:10 PM

Re: Franchise deadline almost here
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thorn (Post 2131486)
I think Barwin is worth more to us than some give him credit for, but not for top 5 pay at the postion. It'll hurt if he leaves, but it'll hurt more if we overpay him. It's not a very good situation for the Texans to be in.

If he leaves, I think there's no way you move Reed inside. I don't know of anyone else on the team who can play SLB.....

I am not convinced Mercilus can handle WOLB, but I don't think it does any good to have Barwin "push" him. Barwin is a fine pass rusher, but he's not a double digit sack guy & that's what we need at WOLB.

So regardless what we do with Barwin, we need to find another guy to share the WOLB position with Whitney. Someone who might be a double digit sack guy

tru80texan 03-04-2013 01:32 PM

Re: Franchise deadline almost here
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderkyss (Post 2131496)
If he leaves, I think there's no way you move Reed inside. I don't know of anyone else on the team who can play SLB.....

I am not convinced Mercilus can handle WOLB, but I don't think it does any good to have Barwin "push" him. Barwin is a fine pass rusher, but he's not a double digit sack guy & that's what we need at WOLB.

So regardless what we do with Barwin, we need to find another guy to share the WOLB position with Whitney. Someone who might be a double digit sack guy

Seems you are quick to judge on Mercilus & Barwin. I can't say what either one are completely capable of, but I do know Barwin has registered double digit sacks & registered 4.5, which was half the total of the gentle giants sack total that season, in very limited action as a rookie. Barwin had a down year & didn't earn a big pay day by his own doing, but he has shown potential & has already accomplished double digit sacks which you stated he wasn't capable of...obviously that was wrong.

Mercilus has only had his rookie season & it would've been an uphill battle for him to supplant Reed or Barwin. When he did get in he had some success. I thinks it's a bit premature to assume he isn't capable of holding down an OLB position as starter based on part time duty as a rookie. He's a 2nd yr player now & young players have proven they can produce early in their careers. I'm not quite ready to cast Mercilus off after one season. A rookie could be brought in to start opposite of Mercilus or next to Cushing. I honestly believe LB could be the 1st pick & will possibly be the best available if he is capable of starting at olb or ILB.

Lurvinator11 03-04-2013 01:50 PM

I read in the chronicle this morning that they will NOT be using the tag. That just means we have until march 12th to resign. It would be cheaper to resign, and make the cap hit for them small. But you don't want to give them to possibility to jump. All I know is if Quinn doesn't get resigned, I'm going to be incredibly pissed. Rick smith will become public enemy number 1 for me.

tru80texan 03-04-2013 01:56 PM

Re: Franchise deadline almost here
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lurvinator11 (Post 2131504)
I read in the chronicle this morning that they will NOT be using the tag. That just means we have until march 12th to resign. It would be cheaper to resign, and make the cap hit for them small. But you don't want to give them to possibility to jump. All I know is if Quinn doesn't get resigned, I'm going to be incredibly pissed. Rick smith will become public enemy number 1 for me.

It seems the Texans have decided not use the franchise tag, as you stated, according the John McLame(McClain) of the Chronicle. Here's a link w/ a copy of the tweet from McLame.
http://www.stateofthetexans.com/?p=10659

I agree as far as Rick Smith, I haven't been overly impressed by the job he has done so far considering he did his best work, IMO, only when he felt his job was on the line following the 2010 season & by his & Kubiak's admission Wade played a key role in acquiring Watt & Reed. Losing key members of the team 2 seasons in a row because of a salary cap mess that he created his unacceptable IMO.

Lurvinator11 03-04-2013 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tru80texan (Post 2131506)
It seems the Texans have decided not use the franchise tag, as you stated, according the John McLame(McClain) of the Chronicle. Here's a link w/ a copy of the tweet from McLame.
http://www.stateofthetexans.com/?p=10659

I agree as far as Rick Smith, I haven't been overly impressed by the job he has done so far considering he did his best work, IMO, only when he felt his job was on the line following the 2010 season & by his & Kubiak's admission Wade played a key role in acquiring Watt & Reed. Losing key members of the team 2 seasons in a row because of a salary cap mess that he created his unacceptable IMO.

I have been a big supporter of Rick, as felt he has done a good job drafting and keeping the players we need to keep. The players we let go last season, I can understand why we let them go. To me, Quinn is the player that would hurt the most if we lost him. Rick knows that, and I hope we hear a deal very soon.

tru80texan 03-04-2013 02:19 PM

Re: Franchise deadline almost here
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lurvinator11 (Post 2131515)
I have been a big supporter of Rick, as felt he has done a good job drafting and keeping the players we need to keep. The players we let go last season, I can understand why we let them go. To me, Quinn is the player that would hurt the most if we lost him. Rick knows that, and I hope we hear a deal very soon.

Those players lost last season obviously meant more to the team then many believed & we learned that the hard way as those positions struggled & now many feel they are needs. I understand that Winston & Ryans were let go because of salary cap issues, but once again those issues were Smith's doing & are still hurting this team w/ the loss of key players & the potential loss of more.

I hope you are right concerning Quin & how Smith views & values him, but I truly have my doubts in what Smith is capable of. Time will tell...

Corrosion 03-04-2013 02:36 PM

Re: Franchise deadline almost here
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HOU-TEX (Post 2131440)
Oh well, neither are worth franchising imo. I'd like them both back, but not if it'll put us in more of a bind than we already are

I agree with you for the most part .... I dont think either is worth the franchise number.

Just wonder , what do you think Quin's value is both to the Texans and on the open market.

Lurvinator11 03-04-2013 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tru80texan (Post 2131517)
Those players lost last season obviously meant more to the team then many believed & we learned that the hard way as those positions struggled & now many feel they are needs. I understand that Winston & Ryans were let go because of salary cap issues, but once again those issues were Smith's doing & are still hurting this team w/ the loss of key players & the potential loss of more.

I hope you are right concerning Quin & how Smith views & values him, but I truly have my doubts in what Smith is capable of. Time will tell...

Not only were they let go due to salary cap issues, but their production was on the downhill. As an every other down back, ryans was being overpaid. Plus he didn't fit well into the system. I'm glad we got value for him. Great player, just didn't fit well in a 3-4 scheme. Winston seemed like he had already hit his peak, and we weren't going to get much more out of him. That and he committed a lot of penalties. Sure, losing them hurt our team a bit, but I feel like we could get better production through the draft.

SheTexan 03-04-2013 02:49 PM

Re: Franchise deadline almost here
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lurvinator11 (Post 2131504)
I read in the chronicle this morning that they will NOT be using the tag. That just means we have until march 12th to resign. It would be cheaper to resign, and make the cap hit for them small. But you don't want to give them to possibility to jump. All I know is if Quinn doesn't get resigned, I'm going to be incredibly pissed. Rick smith will become public enemy number 1 for me.

After our past discussions on RS, this really gave me a good laugh. You know my feelings about him, and they haven't changed. I backed off posting about my intense dislike for him because of you, and now all I've gotta say is I TOLD YA SO!! Our failure to make it to the SB last year lies solely at his feet, JMO!!! I'm not gonna debate the issues either because it only leads to arguments, and besides, what's done is done, and we have to move on.

TexansSeminole 03-04-2013 02:51 PM

Re: Franchise deadline almost here
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Corrosion (Post 2131522)
I agree with you for the most part .... I dont think either is worth the franchise number.

Just wonder , what do you think Quin's value is both to the Texans and on the open market.

I think Quin has high, high value. He can man up on slot or TEs effectively and is stout against the run. He fits our scheme very well. He is everything that Wade would want in a safety for his scheme. It is very important for us to either keep Quin, or to replace him with a very competent player. He is absolutely key to our defense, without him we are much, much worse on defense.

Quin is certainly worth top 5 safety money for not only his versatility but for what he means to our team. He is a leader to not only younger guys but vets view him that way as well.

Not retaining Quin would be a huge mistake in my opinion.

Lurvinator11 03-04-2013 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SheTexan (Post 2131528)
After our past discussions on RS, this really gave me a good laugh. You know my feelings about him, and they haven't changed. I backed off posting about my intense dislike for him because of you, and now all I've gotta say is I TOLD YA SO!! Our failure to make it to the SB last year lies solely at his feet, JMO!!! I'm not gonna debate the issues either because it only leads to arguments, and besides, what's done is done, and we have to move on.

Wow. Look at the classy attitude from shetexan. I will not concede my opinions on him and admit you were right, because you weren't. I would be upset if I we lose Quinn, but that doesn't automatically overturn every good thing RS ha done for this team, which you foolishly overlook due to your warped and biased view. And no, it does not solely lie at his feet. This is a team game, not a blame game. The failure of our team lies on the team, not the GM whose sole responsibility is to sign players who are good for our team, which he has done.

tru80texan 03-04-2013 03:09 PM

Re: Franchise deadline almost here
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lurvinator11 (Post 2131524)
Not only were they let go due to salary cap issues, but their production was on the downhill. As an every other down back, ryans was being overpaid. Plus he didn't fit well into the system. I'm glad we got value for him. Great player, just didn't fit well in a 3-4 scheme. Winston seemed like he had already hit his peak, and we weren't going to get much more out of him. That and he committed a lot of penalties. Sure, losing them hurt our team a bit, but I feel like we could get better production through the draft.

I disagree on the production going downhill concerning Ryans. His production decline early in 2011 was because he was still recovering IMO. His production picked towards the end of the season & that was acknowledged by Kubiak as well as others. Assuming Ryans production wasn't going to be effected to some degree 1 year removed from an Achilles injury in pure foolishness IMO. Holding that against him is hardly fair or an accurate judgement of Ryans abilities. Ryans rebounded very well this season & looked like his old self & it seems the new regime in Philly feel Ryans is very much capable of playing in the 3-4. I tend to believe them. The myth that Ryans wasn't suited for the 3-4 was generated by most of the same folks that foolishly assumed that James could easily replace him. I think they were obviously wrong on James as a replacement & will ultimately be wrong on what Ryans is capable of in a 3-4 scheme. Ryans was making too much for only being a 2 down LB, but that's what happens when a player starts next to the likes of Cushing in Wade's scheme. The better player stays on the field, but Ryans is still very good in his own right & claiming his production is down seems to be completely false considering his production just this past season. The numbers speak for themselves.

As far as Winston, his production may have been slipping some as a Texan but he too performed well for is new team as it seems the Texans misjudged the talent level of Butler & Newton. I admit I thought Butler could possibly fill the void, but that didn't happen & I was wrong just as they were. Once again the salary cap is a beast that was created by Smith & he has yet to tame it & it is costing the Texans quality players in the process.

I do agree that Winston & Ryans may have needed to go because of salary cap numbers, but not because of their production. They are both still quality players that are better then what we currently have at their positions & money was the reason they are no longer here & that is easily proven w/ the production this past season.

drs23 03-04-2013 03:11 PM

Re: Franchise deadline almost here
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TexansSeminole (Post 2131529)
I think Quin has high, high value. He can man up on slot or TEs effectively and is stout against the run. He fits our scheme very well. He is everything that Wade would want in a safety for his scheme. It is very important for us to either keep Quin, or to replace him with a very competent player. He is absolutely key to our defense, without him we are much, much worse on defense.

Quin is certainly worth top 5 safety money for not only his versatility but for what he means to our team. He is a leader to not only younger guys but vets view him that way as well.

Not retaining Quin would be a huge mistake in my opinion.

I believe I'm one of many that agree 100%. They need to find a way to do it. GQ is WAY to important as a major cog in the defensive machine to let get away. If he hits the open market, he's gone. That will/would be a sad, sad day in Texanville.

tru80texan 03-04-2013 03:17 PM

Re: Franchise deadline almost here
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lurvinator11 (Post 2131535)
Wow. Look at the classy attitude from shetexan. I will not concede my opinions on him and admit you were right, because you weren't. I would be upset if I we lose Quinn, but that doesn't automatically overturn every good thing RS ha done for this team, which you foolishly overlook due to your warped and biased view. And no, it does not solely lie at his feet. This is a team game, not a blame game. The failure of our team lies on the team, not the GM whose sole responsibility is to sign players who are good for our team, which he has done.

Managing the salary cap & players is not a team game, it's a Rick Smith & FO responsibility. Failing in that area is on Smith IMO. Obviously not all of decisions have been the right ones or the Texans wouldn't continue to be in salary cap despair & losing quality to players. I understand it happens to all teams, but others seem to find ways to keep quality players or replace them w/ such as opposed to always hoping that the teams needs can be filled yr in & yr out by a rookie...very similar to what we are once again hoping for this year.

infantrycak 03-04-2013 03:31 PM

Re: Franchise deadline almost here
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TexansSeminole (Post 2131529)
Quin is certainly worth top 5 safety money for not only his versatility but for what he means to our team. He is a leader to not only younger guys but vets view him that way as well.

I would like to keep Quin but where do you get all this leadership stuff from?


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