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-   -   Lance Zierlein: Mock Draft (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98954)

thunderkyss 03-03-2013 10:06 AM

Lance Zierlein: Mock Draft
 
The Z Report
Quote:

27. Houston - Datone Jones, DE, UCLA
Z-Report Says: I thought about putting WRs DeAndre Hopkins or Robert Woods here, but the way my board is going, the Texans would probably see strong WR value in the 2nd round. I put Manti Te’o here and then deleted it because my guess is that they will want to go with another, less expensive ILB in round 2 or 3 to compete with Darryl Sharpton. Jones, is a tough DE with good strength who would be tabbed to replace Antonio Smith down the road. Jones has the quickness to attack the gaps in Wade Phillips’ defense scheme and he has shown the ability to handle himself against the run.
This guy looks like a football player. I think it would be interesting to see him on our defense. However, with Antonio coming off back-to-back career years, I just don't see this happening.

I believe this has been posted in another thread. I started this one, because I wanted to talk about some of his other picks.

Arizona selects Gino Smith with the 7th overall pick.
I know Arizona has had some trouble as of late with their QB position. Other than Kurt Warner it seems they can't find one that sticks. They tried a top ten selection with Matt Lienart, a FA phenom with Kevin Kolb, & a darkhorse with John Skelton.

I'm thinking maybe the QB isn't the problem. If I'm Arizona I'm asking myself if I have a foundation to develop a QB. They've also struggled with the running game. Running & passing problems generally have a common source. I believe that starts with the center & works out.

I'd stick with Skelton & Kolb and build the trenches.
8 Buffalo: Eziekial Ansah
This guy appears to be a bad ass, & I know there are many who want to believe the Mario endeavor failed. However, they've got a very talented DL. A first overall in Mario, a third overall in Marcell, a bad ass in Kyle Williams, and an underrated (imo) Mark Anderson.

Like Houston, their problem is most likely on the back end. Aaron Williams (34th overall 2011 draft), Stephon Gillmore (10th overall 2012 draft), Da'Norris Searcy (100th overall 2011 draft).... very young group here, no veteran presence. I'd either improve my coaching staff or get a veteran player on the back end through FA (Danieal Manning via trade perhaps), or both.

If I'm Buffalo, I'm looking at LT Lane Johnson, or WR Cordarelle Patterson, and a QB in the second or third to develop & push Fitzpatrick.
9. NYJets Matt Barkley

They've got a log jam at QB right now. Sanchez (or Franchez based on his last conract), Greg McElroy, Tim Tebow... & that nearly broke them in 2012. I don't think they are going to take another QB out of USC & start all over again. They'll get a vet if they aren't happy with their current line up.
12. Miami Cordarelle Patterson
If they get Mike Wallace & Cordarelle.... watch out.
I like all the picks from there, especially Latuleilei to the Cowboys & Fluker to the Giants.

What I don't like is the run on WRs before our pick. Allen, Hopkins, & Austin all gone from 22 to 25.

What are your thoughts?

beerlover 03-03-2013 11:52 AM

Re: Lance Zierlein: Mock Draft
 
Mocked Datone Jones to Texans over a month ago.

Playoffs 03-03-2013 11:54 AM

Re: Lance Zierlein: Mock Draft
 
I'm not that impressed with Jones' tape. Quick gap shooter/quick first move, but doesn't finish and will take a play off. I'm not seeing "the ability to handle himself against the run." Methinks Jones is more an underwear olympics winner.

LZ has 4 WRs off the board for our pick, which would be unfortunate:
12. Miami - Cordarrelle Patterson, WR, Tennessee
22. St. Louis – Keenan Allen, WR, Cal
23. Minnesota - DeAndre Hopkins, WR, Clemson
25. Seattle - Tavon Austin, WR, West Virginia
I think I'd explore moving down if the board shakes out like this.

___________________________
I love the Jets drafting another USC QB to sit behind Sanchez.

It'll take him a year or two to fully grasp some pieces of their sophisticated playbook.

http://sinfl.files.wordpress.com/201...dard_500-0.gif

IDEXAN 03-03-2013 11:56 AM

Re: Lance Zierlein: Mock Draft
 
I like LZs Draft and hope we do take the top lineman, be he defensive or offensive, with our top pick when the Draft rolls around. I do believe the game is basically won at the LOS. And this is said to be a very deep Draft for WRs so we should be able to pick up a talented prospect at that position in the second-round.

thunderkyss 03-03-2013 12:12 PM

Re: Lance Zierlein: Mock Draft
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Playoffs (Post 2131191)
I think I'd explore moving down if the board shakes out like this.

Who would you be targeting on a trade down?

Honoring Earl 34 03-03-2013 12:21 PM

Re: Lance Zierlein: Mock Draft
 
Would anybody take Hunt before Jones because he has a higher ceiling ? :photos:

Playoffs 03-03-2013 01:45 PM

Re: Lance Zierlein: Mock Draft
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderkyss (Post 2131195)
Who would you be targeting on a trade down?

Depends on what we do before the draft and who we trade with, but one of the NTs, S Cyprien/Elam, (do we need an OLB moving Reed inside?) Jamie Collins, or of course one of the remaining WRs - Patton, Hunter, Woods.

mussop 03-03-2013 01:49 PM

Re: Lance Zierlein: Mock Draft
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Playoffs (Post 2131191)
I'm not that impressed with Jones' tape. Quick gap shooter/quick first move, but doesn't finish and will take a play off. I'm not seeing "the ability to handle himself against the run." Methinks Jones is more an underwear olympics winner.

LZ has 4 WRs off the board for our pick, which would be unfortunate:
12. Miami - Cordarrelle Patterson, WR, Tennessee
22. St. Louis – Keenan Allen, WR, Cal
23. Minnesota - DeAndre Hopkins, WR, Clemson
25. Seattle - Tavon Austin, WR, West Virginia
I think I'd explore moving down if the board shakes out like this.

___________________________
I love the Jets drafting another USC QB to sit behind Sanchez.

It'll take him a year or two to fully grasp some pieces of their sophisticated playbook.

http://sinfl.files.wordpress.com/201...dard_500-0.gif

This!!! This is typical over evaluating a player because he looked good in one on one drills at the senior bowl. He also played well in the senior bowl. Because of that he has shot up the internet big boards. Happens every year.

Game tape people, watch it!!!!

mussop 03-03-2013 01:50 PM

Re: Lance Zierlein: Mock Draft
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Honoring Earl 34 (Post 2131197)
Would anybody take Hunt before Jones because he has a higher ceiling ? :photos:

I would! But not in the first round.

Insideop 03-03-2013 08:40 PM

Re: Lance Zierlein: Mock Draft
 
Quote:

LZ has 4 WRs off the board for our pick, which would be unfortunate:

12. Miami - Cordarrelle Patterson, WR, Tennessee
22. St. Louis – Keenan Allen, WR, Cal
23. Minnesota - DeAndre Hopkins, WR, Clemson
25. Seattle - Tavon Austin, WR, West Virginia

I think I'd explore moving down if the board shakes out like this.
Yeah, this scenario would kinda suck. I'm hoping either Allen or Hopkins falls. But, if it does turn out like this, then moving down may be a better option. There should still be some good WR's left in the early 2nd and you could probably pick between Woods, Hunter, Patton, and Swope.

Brisco_County 03-03-2013 10:35 PM

Re: Lance Zierlein: Mock Draft
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Playoffs (Post 2131191)
I'm not that impressed with Jones' tape. Quick gap shooter/quick first move, but doesn't finish and will take a play off. I'm not seeing "the ability to handle himself against the run." Methinks Jones is more an underwear olympics winner.

LZ has 4 WRs off the board for our pick, which would be unfortunate:
12. Miami - Cordarrelle Patterson, WR, Tennessee
22. St. Louis – Keenan Allen, WR, Cal
23. Minnesota - DeAndre Hopkins, WR, Clemson
25. Seattle - Tavon Austin, WR, West Virginia
I think I'd explore moving down if the board shakes out like this.

My question to LZ would be: If any of these guys are available at #27, do the Texans definitely pick him? In other words, which of these choices (if not all of them) are still the best available?

Wolf6151 03-04-2013 12:09 AM

Re: Lance Zierlein: Mock Draft
 
If our draft fell the way LZ has it, I'd much rather pick Kawann Short, Justin Hunter, Quinton Patton, or Jonathan Banks over Datone Jones. I just don't see Jones being able to add enough weight/bulk to be an effective 3-4 DE.

otisbean 03-04-2013 07:08 AM

Re: Lance Zierlein: Mock Draft
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolf6151 (Post 2131373)
If our draft fell the way LZ has it, I'd much rather pick Kawann Short, Justin Hunter, Quinton Patton, or Jonathan Banks over Datone Jones. I just don't see Jones being able to add enough weight/bulk to be an effective 3-4 DE.

I'm not sure I understand your concern...nfldraftscout has him listed at 6'4" and 283. That's identical to Antonio Smith and he's quite effect.

thunderkyss 03-04-2013 09:31 AM

Re: Lance Zierlein: Mock Draft
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by otisbean (Post 2131393)
I'm not sure I understand your concern...nfldraftscout has him listed at 6'4" and 283. That's identical to Antonio Smith and he's quite effect.

You keep saying this.

But Antonio is listed at 295. 6'3" or 6'4" is not prototypical size for a 3-4 DE. Antonio has been successful for us, but I think he's more the exception to the rule.

Insideop 03-04-2013 09:42 AM

Re: Lance Zierlein: Mock Draft
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderkyss (Post 2131421)
You keep saying this.

But Antonio is listed at 295. 6'3" or 6'4" is not prototypical size for a 3-4 DE. Antonio has been successful for us, but I think he's more the exception to the rule.

TK, where did you get this from? At NFL.com on the Texans official roster they have him listed at 6'4" 284 lbs. :thinking:

infantrycak 03-04-2013 09:44 AM

Re: Lance Zierlein: Mock Draft
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderkyss (Post 2131421)
You keep saying this.

But Antonio is listed at 295. 6'3" or 6'4" is not prototypical size for a 3-4 DE. Antonio has been successful for us, but I think he's more the exception to the rule.

Antonio Smith is listed as 6'4" 284 lbs on HT.com. The Texans are the only ones who have weighed him in over the last few years.

6' 3" is very prototypical. 1st six 3-4 DE's I looked at there was one 6' 2" and the other five were all 6' 3" or taller.

thunderkyss 03-04-2013 09:50 AM

Re: Lance Zierlein: Mock Draft
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Insideop (Post 2131426)
TK, where did you get this from? At NFL.com on the Texans official roster they have him listed at 6'4" 284 lbs. :thinking:

The internet is conspiring to make a liar out of me. I know!! I was comparing Jones to Antonio just last week & NFL.com & ESPN had him at 295.

ArlingtonTexan 03-04-2013 09:51 AM

Re: Lance Zierlein: Mock Draft
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by infantrycak (Post 2131428)
Antonio Smith is listed as 6'4" 284 lbs on HT.com. The Texans are the only ones who have weighed him in over the last few years.

and Jared Crick is almost a twin to that also

http://www.houstontexans.com/team/roster.html

I thought Wade's preference for movement skills over size on the DL had been an over talked about issue on this board. Guess it bares repeating for the 1000th time.

tru80texan 03-04-2013 10:40 AM

Re: Lance Zierlein: Mock Draft
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderkyss (Post 2131432)
The internet is conspiring to make a liar out of me. I know!! I was comparing Jones to Antonio just last week & NFL.com & ESPN had him at 295.

Here's how ESPN & NFL.com lists Antonio Smith on his player profile.

ESPN
#94 DE6' 4", 284 lbsHouston Texans
Birth Date October 21, 1981 (Age: 31)
Birth Place Oklahoma City, OK
Experience 8 years
College Oklahoma State



NFL.com
ANTONIO SMITH #94 DE
Houston Texans Experience: 9 Seasons
Height: 6' - 4" Born: Oct 21st, 1981
Weight: 284 lbs. Age: 31
College: Oklahoma State


As others have said, I can't recall him ever being listed at 295lbs. In fact, by his own admission he weighed in the 270's following the 2010 season & is why he expressed reluctance to becoming a 3-4 DE. I'm not why ESPN & NFL.com would both change Antonio's player profile in less then a week, but the conspiracy is in full effect against you. Lol!

beerlover 03-04-2013 11:42 AM

Re: Lance Zierlein: Mock Draft
 
UCLA players seem to be late bloomers, that school has a miserable record for several years and only started turning it around the past year with former NFL HC Jim Mora. It takes a while to turnaround a program installing new system with new position coaches, I think Tennessee suffers a similar plight but should start to see improvement next season. Speaking directly to Datone Jones, new DL coach Angus McClure switched to the 3-4. Datone fit much better in scheme as his numbers reflect 3 sacks and 6.5 tackles for loss to 6.5 sacks and 17.5 tackles for loss. Follow that up with impressive NFL body for position. He is actually quite lean, similar to Antonio but has a bigger lower base with probability of adding at least 10 more pounds which would put him in your proverbial 295 lb target.


What scouts key on mostly transpires during week of practice @ Senior Bowl not actual game, for Head Coaches it's their first actual look at prospects up close so it does carry added weight. Dantone Jones was dominant in one on one drills against top flight future NFL tackles & guards. Eric Fisher was the only OT I can remember who was able to force a stand-off but even he was beaten badly once & he is a legitimate top 10 franchise LT. What caught scouts attention during these drills was probably how polished his pass rush moves where, they looked pro ready. The thing why I had targeted DJ (can't speak for LZ because don't see it listed) was his attitude & interview process. Refreshing, bright & full of passion for the game, loves Football. Not sure how you measure this but is intangible Texans covet. :swatter:


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