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-   -   Vance Joseph on DBs (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98688)

thunderkyss 02-16-2013 08:58 PM

Vance Joseph on DBs
 
Check out this podcast, from last Thursday (Valentines) he said a couple of things I thought was interesting, so check it out & let's discuss.

You'll need to go down & click on the one that says, "DB coach, Vance Joseph on DBs"

I'd have liked to hear them ask him what it's like working with Wade.


& if he'd be interested in taking over STs.

CloakNNNdagger 02-16-2013 09:40 PM

Re: Vance Joseph on DBs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderkyss (Post 2126520)
Check out this podcast, from last Thursday (Valentines) he said a couple of things I thought was interesting, so check it out & let's discuss.

You'll need to go down & click on the one that says, "DB coach, Vance Joseph on DBs"

I'd have liked to hear them ask him what it's like working with Wade.


& if he'd be interested in taking over STs.

I didn't see your post until I began a new Thread re "Special Teams Assistant Coordinators." If the Texans are insistant on keeping Marciano, it would be nice to at least have another legitimate voice in the mix.

Honoring Earl 34 02-16-2013 09:47 PM

Re: Vance Joseph on DBs
 
Interesting about KJ not getting coached up . He likes McCain , was hesitant on Keo and others .

thunderkyss 02-16-2013 10:10 PM

Re: Vance Joseph on DBs
 
The thing I found most interesting is when asked what his role was for FA, he said his job was to find replacements for the guys, in case we aren't able to keep Quin & McClain.

Lurvinator11 02-16-2013 10:48 PM

Re: Vance Joseph on DBs
 
I liked what they talked about with the QB's.

Would anyone be opposed to Barkley being drafted by us?

Lurvinator11 02-16-2013 10:54 PM

Re: Vance Joseph on DBs
 
I like that mantra. Preparing for the worst. If they stay, awesome. If not, there won't be that bad of a drop off.

Playoffs 02-17-2013 09:23 AM

Re: Vance Joseph on DBs
 
So, what I got was...
  • KJ was a poor technician, now that's fixed
  • McCain excels at covering the little, fast slot guys
  • Brandon Harris needed to get his body in shape first, which he has, now needs experience
  • Keo needs playing experience
  • Roc Carmichael still needs to develop his body
  • Eddie Pleasant needs to get into his playbook and learn what to do

What he's focusing on at the combine: drills, 40. Interview, not so much

TheRealJoker 02-17-2013 12:54 PM

Re: Vance Joseph on DBs
 
Strange how one coaching staff thought KJ was the most NFL Ready CB in his draft. But the next coaching staff thought he was a poor technician.

thunderkyss 02-17-2013 01:32 PM

Re: Vance Joseph on DBs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRealJoker (Post 2126614)
Strange how one coaching staff thought KJ was the most NFL Ready CB in his draft. But the next coaching staff thought he was a poor technician.

They were probably considering the system they would use. For whatever Gibbs was doing, he was the most ready, Pollard was also a good fit. For what Vance is doing, Kj needed to learn the technique, & Pollard was a square peg.

tru80texan 02-17-2013 01:55 PM

Re: Vance Joseph on DBs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderkyss (Post 2126627)
They were probably considering the system they would use. For whatever Gibbs was doing, he was the most ready, Pollard was also a good fit. For what Vance is doing, Kj needed to learn the technique, & Pollard was a square peg.

"NFL Ready" normally equates to being ready to play day 1 in any scheme in the NFL from what I've come to learn. Those that have limitations are normally described as such w/ descriptions such as "cover 2 type" or "press cb". Normally meaning they lack in 1 style while possibly being better suited for the other. KJ was just described as "NFL ready" by the Texans FO which includes a seasoned NFL coach & former DB for a GM. Obviously KJ was not "NFL ready" regardless of scheme & it seems he was evaluated improperly by those that chose him. It seems that Vance is at least willing to admit that even if some of us remain in denial.

I think KJ can get better, but at least it was nice to finally see some noticeable improvement. Hopefully it continues.

Playoffs 02-17-2013 02:35 PM

Re: Vance Joseph on DBs
 
ProFootballFocus rated KJ overall 14th out of 113 CBs in 2012 and 11th/113 in pass coverage. (minimum 25% team snaps)

In the playoffs, KJ was rated overall 3/46 and JJo 5/46. (no minimum snaps)

tru80texan 02-17-2013 02:47 PM

Re: Vance Joseph on DBs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Playoffs (Post 2126643)
ProFootballFocus rated KJ overall 14th out of 113 CBs in 2012 and 11th/113 in pass coverage. (minimum 25% team snaps)

In the playoffs, KJ was rated overall 3/46 and JJo 5/46. (no minimum snaps)

That's good to know. He still has issues getting his around but he's timing getting his hands up at the right time a lot better. Also still has an issue or 2 w/ double moves, but most definitely improved. I wish he could play tighter to line instead of using his cushion as a safety net from getting burned, but he is showing signs of improvement & hopefully it continues. Doesn't erase the incorrect evaluation of him out of college, but the Texans seem to be finally heading towards getting what they paid for.

badboy 02-17-2013 08:15 PM

Re: Vance Joseph on DBs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Playoffs (Post 2126573)
So, what I got was...
  • [*]KJ was a poor technician, now that's fixed
  • McCain excels at covering the little, fast slot guys
  • Brandon Harris needed to get his body in shape first, which he has, now needs experience
  • Keo needs playing experience
  • Roc Carmichael still needs to develop his body
  • Eddie Pleasant needs to get into his playbook and learn what to do

What he's focusing on at the combine: drills, 40. Interview, not so much

What I said about KJ from beginning, more important than being right is knowing the coach has fixed him. If Harris, Roc and Pleasant step up this season--great!

CloakNNNdagger 02-17-2013 08:34 PM

Re: Vance Joseph on DBs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tru80texan (Post 2126633)
"NFL Ready" normally equates to being ready to play day 1 in any scheme in the NFL from what I've come to learn. Those that have limitations are normally described as such w/ descriptions such as "cover 2 type" or "press cb". Normally meaning they lack in 1 style while possibly being better suited for the other. KJ was just described as "NFL ready" by the Texans FO which includes a seasoned NFL coach & former DB for a GM. Obviously KJ was not "NFL ready" regardless of scheme & it seems he was evaluated improperly by those that chose him. It seems that Vance is at least willing to admit that even if some of us remain in denial.

I think KJ can get better, but at least it was nice to finally see some noticeable improvement. Hopefully it continues.

When KJ revealed that he was going to enter the NFL Draft after his Junior year at Alabama, Saban specifically (made widely public) told him he was not NFL ready. The Texans knew this............yet the Texans' brain trust, just like KJ himself, knew better and still said he was NFL ready (immediately ready to start at CB) simply based on the fact that he was coming from Saban's Alabama pro style sets. Saban told him he needed to return for his senior year to adequately prepare for his NFL debut.


Tide's Kareem Jackson passes on Saban's advice, enters NFL draft


Published: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 10:24 AM

Quote:

TUSCALOOSA -- Alabama junior cornerback Kareem Jackson said it was "a real tough decision," but one he'd made a while ago.

Jackson said Friday he will forego his senior season at Alabama and enter the 2010 NFL draft. Friday was the deadline for underclassmen to declare.

After the BCS national title game, Jackson returned home to discuss the situation with family. He then came back to Tuscaloosa and met with Crimson Tide coach Nick Saban, who advised Jackson to return for another year.

"We had a couple of conversations about it," Jackson told the Press-Register. "He thought that I should come back for my senior year, but it was good. We left things on good terms. He told me he'd help me any way he can.

"He just gave me his opinion on it, and regardless of the situation, that's my coach and I respect him. He's made me the player that I am. I have to give all the credit to him."

Jackson said he had made up his mind to leave early but waited to publicly reveal it.

"I think I made the right decision," he said. "I'm pretty confident about it. I'm just ready to get to work and kind of prove myself to be a player at the next level."
************

The Texans continued to keep the myth going.:

Quote:

Rotoworld
Texans coach Gary Kubiak said that first-round CB Kareem Jackson is "way ahead" of where most rookies are right now.
Jackson is already running with the first team and he'll almost certainly be there on opening day. The 20th overall pick benefited greatly from playing in Nick Saban's defense at Alabama and we don't expect him to be a liability as a rookie.
Source: Houston Chronicle
Wed, Jun 2, 2010 09:19:00 AM

badboy 02-17-2013 08:39 PM

Re: Vance Joseph on DBs
 
CND I remember all that and kept going no, no no. It has worked out but now we need Harris & Carmichael to improve. That would really strengthen our D.

TexansSeminole 02-17-2013 10:59 PM

Re: Vance Joseph on DBs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tru80texan (Post 2126633)
"NFL Ready" normally equates to being ready to play day 1 in any scheme in the NFL from what I've come to learn. Those that have limitations are normally described as such w/ descriptions such as "cover 2 type" or "press cb". Normally meaning they lack in 1 style while possibly being better suited for the other. KJ was just described as "NFL ready" by the Texans FO which includes a seasoned NFL coach & former DB for a GM. Obviously KJ was not "NFL ready" regardless of scheme & it seems he was evaluated improperly by those that chose him. It seems that Vance is at least willing to admit that even if some of us remain in denial.

I think KJ can get better, but at least it was nice to finally see some noticeable improvement. Hopefully it continues.

Since when does nfl ready mean that a player can be effective in any system? NFL ready simply means that a guy is good enough at what he does to play his position, which many times is scheme oriented, and compete in the nfl right now. It doesn't mean he is ready to be a star or able to play in any scheme.

tru80texan 02-18-2013 10:02 AM

Re: Vance Joseph on DBs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TexansSeminole (Post 2126754)
Since when does nfl ready mean that a player can be effective in any system? NFL ready simply means that a guy is good enough at what he does to play his position, which many times is scheme oriented, and compete in the nfl right now. It doesn't mean he is ready to be a star or able to play in any scheme.

So even by your own definition the Texans evaluation was completely wrong because Kareem was anything but ready to compete in the NFL as a rookie. Normally competing equates to being somewhat effective, so I'm not quite sure what your argument is because Kareem wasnt effective in any scheme nor did he compete. This has NOTHING to do w/ being a "star" & everything to do w/ being able to at least hold your own a majority of the time which is what the Texans falsely believed & preached. We all know that the Texans were looking for a cb & wanted one that could start from day 1 w/ the 1st round pick. They werent picking Kareem to be the "NFL ready" bench warmer. KJ was a starter as soon as the Texans called his name & obviously he was not ready for the NFL.

tru80texan 02-18-2013 10:10 AM

Re: Vance Joseph on DBs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badboy (Post 2126725)
CND I remember all that and kept going no, no no. It has worked out but now we need Harris & Carmichael to improve. That would really strengthen our D.

I really like Harris. He struggled at times, but that was against the likes of Wes Welker. He made some decent plays on the ball & at least seemed to be in the area at all times. I think some more playing time is all that he needs & he will develop into a true asset. I wouldn't be surprised if McCain is allowed to walk & they allow Harris to step up. I'm not quite sold on Carmichael. I hope he comes around, but I wasn't high on him when he was drafted. You can never have too many decent cb's.

Texan_Bill 02-18-2013 07:39 PM

Re: Vance Joseph on DBs
 
While I like the idea of spreading Vance Joseph into the realm of ST's, I would also rather him stay 100% focused on the secondary, including Kareem Jackson's improvement.

Marciano's ST's have sucked over the last two years, BUT he does have an overall good track record. Maybe the Texans should hire him an assistant that is an up and comer, ballsy effer.

tru80texan 02-18-2013 11:21 PM

Re: Vance Joseph on DBs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Texan_Bill (Post 2127036)
While I like the idea of spreading Vance Joseph into the realm of ST's, I would also rather him stay 100% focused on the secondary, including Kareem Jackson's improvement.

Marciano's ST's have sucked over the last two years, BUT he does have an overall good track record. Maybe the Texans should hire him an assistant that is an up and comer, ballsy effer.

I cant recall the ST's ever really being an asset & they have been under Marciano's watch since day 1. In fact, I think it could easily be said that the ST's are regressing. 2010 was an ugly year for the Texans & ST's definitely had their lows that year as well. I think the last 3 years they have sucked to be honest. An assistant ST's coach isn't needed...a new ST's coach all together is imo.


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