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-   -   Texans #2 WR position (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98619)

Texans_Chick 02-12-2013 12:48 PM

Texans #2 WR position
 
Everybody knows this is an issue, but finding solutions are harder.

I frame the issue here:

Options, pessimism about 2013 Texans #2 wide receiver position

Framing the issue doesn't mean solving it, but it is hard to discuss things without a framework of what is possible/feasible.

Maybe I'm just grumpy at the beginning of February on this subject, but this topic puts me in a grim mood. Are there reasons to be less grumpy about this? Your ideas welcome.

CloakNNNdagger 02-12-2013 01:43 PM

Re: Texans #2 WR position
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Texans_Chick (Post 2124434)
Everybody knows this is an issue, but finding solutions are harder.

I frame the issue here:

Options, pessimism about 2013 Texans #2 wide receiver position

Framing the issue doesn't mean solving it, but it is hard to discuss things without a framework of what is possible/feasible.

Maybe I'm just grumpy at the beginning of February on this subject, but this topic puts me in a grim mood. Are there reasons to be less grumpy about this? Your ideas welcome.

Nice write up as usual, Steph.

Grumpy/grim probably is not an unreasonable mood to be in at this point. Our bargain hunting pattern for WRs over the years are no more likely to produce results this year. On top of that, it is hard to feel comfortable that even with the addition of that "it" WR, we can't be guaranteed that the ball will ever be "delivered" effectively to make such a move significantly productive this upcoming season. As McNair has made a public statement that he essentially feels the WR position needs to be given attention, while looking at our Cap situation this year and next, and our diffuse needs, I more expect to see a window dressing WR appear on the 2013 Texans..... I hope that I am wrong. But, meanwhile, along with you, Steph, I can't help but remain somewhat cynical, grim and grumpy.:texflag:

CloakNNNdagger 02-12-2013 01:55 PM

Re: Texans #2 WR position
 
BTW, how did "Matt Schaub" make it onto the linked 2013 FA list???:kubepalm:

Stemp 02-12-2013 02:00 PM

Re: Texans #2 WR position
 
I've had my eye on Quinton Patton since the game against A&M. I think this guy is going to be a stud and I'm hoping he falls into the Texans' lap at the draft and they pull the trigger.

Wolf6151 02-12-2013 02:05 PM

Re: Texans #2 WR position
 
The Texans have alot of holes right now and with our salary cap situation I don't think there's any way we fill them all with good or even decent players. We're going into next season with a few team weaknesses plain and simple. We don't have the money to properly address WR in FA unless we make some painful cuts elsewhere on the team. I honestly think that this offseason could be even bloodier than last with all the cuts that may get made. Also the fact that McNair is making his opinion known publicly regarding WR, tells me that he's not real happy with Smithiak right now and the fact that the WR position hasn't been fixed when it's been an obvious issue to everyone in the NFL. Using the "bargain hunting pattern" that Kubiak has used the last few year to fix the problem hasn't worked, and I'm thinking it's really irritating McNair. Last years draft was a perfect example, it was really deep at WR yet we traded out of the 2nd round when there were good WR's available to us and then took a guy who should have been a 6th round pick at best in the 3rd. That move will come back to haunt us and it looks like it's already starting to.

I think we address the issue in the draft, we've got no other choice.

CloakNNNdagger 02-12-2013 02:08 PM

Re: Texans #2 WR position
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stemp (Post 2124472)
I've had my eye on Quinton Patton since the game against A&M. I think this guy is going to be a stud and I'm hoping he falls into the Texans' lap at the draft and they pull the trigger.

My favorite.

deucetx 02-12-2013 02:35 PM

Re: Texans #2 WR position
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolf6151 (Post 2124476)
Last years draft was a perfect example, it was really deep at WR yet we traded out of the 2nd round when there were good WR's available to us and then took a guy who should have been a 6th round pick at best in the 3rd. That move will come back to haunt us and it looks like it's already starting to.

I think we address the issue in the draft, we've got no other choice.

I wouldn't hold trading back against them. Even after that only one receiver was chosen before their next pick (Rueben Randle) and he had an unsubstantial year. But yeah, the way they address it leaves something to be desired. Seems like we go for projects even in draft. Jones out of Lane college and Posey who missed an entire season were at the top of our receiver picks. Come on...

Two that did well that we missed on were T.Y. Hilton which of course come back to bite us in the backside and Chris Givens. But it's hindsight at this point though I originally liked Givens so was a bit peeved when we didn't pick him. Heh, I would have been surprised if this team rolled the dice and went for Josh Gordon in the supplemental draft but of course not bias on that one since he's a friend of the family.

Definitely looks like draft is the way we have to go again though I would really rather a free agent WR since rookies usually take time to develop at this position.

badboy 02-12-2013 04:12 PM

Re: Texans #2 WR position
 
I think there are moves that canbe made to bring on top notch WR, whether we go that direction is the question. As McNair has spoken on this it might happen. I could see a high motor guy like Kawaan Short being selected to replace A. Smith and use that cap savings towards FA #2 WR. Reworking Walter saves a small amount. I like Stedman Bailey in draft who should be available in third.

CloakNNNdagger 02-12-2013 06:36 PM

Re: Texans #2 WR position
 
Walter already restructured his 2012 income. Wonder, if asked, how likely he would be to even agree to another one of any significance this year

Quote:

Houston Texans wide receiver Kevin Walter took a pay cut earlier this month. Walter, 31, was scheduled to earn $3.5 million in base salary with a $4.5 million salary cap number in each of the three remaining seasons on his current contract. On March 16, Walter agreed to reduce his salary to $2 million, lowering his cap number for this season to $3 million. The final two years on Walter's contract (2013-14) were unchanged.
link

ATXtexanfan 02-12-2013 07:18 PM

Re: Texans #2 WR position
 
When pay a #1 like a #1 then you can't afford a #2. Gotta hit in the draft.

Texn4life 02-12-2013 07:43 PM

Re: Texans #2 WR position
 
I like Patton where we're drafting as well. Reading some things on him recently it seems like he has a nice edge to him. I like guys that play with a chip on their shoulder and it seems like he plays with that mentality. He'd be a nice change of pace attitude wise to what we currently have. Good guy, but full of self confidence.

I'd bring in another 2nd tier vet at receiver and let he, Walter, and Jean battle it out. Martin and Posey aren't going anywhere so you can figure them into the equation. A group of AJ, Patton, Martin, Jean/Walter/FA (Posey when he's healthy) looks better than what we threw out at the end of the year. Martin should be better with a full year under his belt, and I believe Patton is polished enough as a route runner to contribute right away. The key would be getting him acclimated to the offense and the staff will make that judgment during the process.

Texan_Bill 02-12-2013 07:56 PM

Re: Texans #2 WR position
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ATXtexanfan (Post 2124747)
When pay a #1 like a #1 then you can't afford a #2. Gotta hit in the draft.

Just throwing this out there but how do we know, Keyshawn Martin, Lestar Jean and the like, aren't that guy yet?

I'm not saying, by any stretch that those guys are the answer but I would rather focus the draft in other areas. Primarily the Texans defensive interior.

ArlingtonTexan 02-12-2013 08:21 PM

Re: Texans #2 WR position
 
My prediction of what will happen with the number 2 WR

Kevin Walter will be outright cut- Actual cap savings
the Texans will sign a mid or lower level Wr as a veteran WR2- 9(Ramess Barden, Brandon gibson since they are at least young)
Draft another rookie Wr in rounds 2-4.

My only hope for diferent is that fact that the owner has already said on several occassions that WR2 is a priority.

CretorFrigg 02-12-2013 08:33 PM

Re: Texans #2 WR position
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan (Post 2124786)
My prediction of what will happen with the number 2 WR

Kevin Walter will be outright cut- Actual cap savings
the Texans will sign a mid or lower level Wr as a veteran WR2- 9(Ramess Barden, Brandon gibson since they are at least young)
Draft another rookie Wr in rounds 2-4.

I just can't see how that will help the Texans' WR situation. I've never even heard of Ramses Barden or Brandon Gibson. As you said, these guys are mid to lower level WRs. We know what we're going to get from them. They're probably not going to be able to step in as the #2 WR.

And relying on another WR rookie? That's just a gamble. We need a proven, solid #2 WR who can step in immediately and contribute to the team.

Texn4life 02-12-2013 08:40 PM

Re: Texans #2 WR position
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan (Post 2124786)
My prediction of what will happen with the number 2 WR

Kevin Walter will be outright cut- Actual cap savings
the Texans will sign a mid or lower level Wr as a veteran WR2- 9(Ramess Barden, Brandon gibson since they are at least young)
Draft another rookie Wr in rounds 2-4.

My only hope for diferent is that fact that the owner has already said on several occassions that WR2 is a priority.

I really like the Barden option. The kid for some reason just hasn't been given much of a chance in New York, but his size is something that can't can't be coached or taught and whenever I see him out on the field it seems like he produces. Had a very nice game against Carolina this year.

EDIT: probably shouldn't say he has produced especially in the regular season, but he has looked good in preseason and in his limited play in the regular season. I believe he's been nicked up some but he has a lot of upside.

CloakNNNdagger 02-12-2013 09:19 PM

Re: Texans #2 WR position
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan (Post 2124786)
My prediction of what will happen with the number 2 WR

Kevin Walter will be outright cut- Actual cap savings
the Texans will sign a mid or lower level Wr as a veteran WR2- 9(Ramess Barden, Brandon gibson since they are at least young)
Draft another rookie Wr in rounds 2-4.

My only hope for diferent is that fact that the owner has already said on several occassions that WR2 is a priority.

It's pretty discouraging to look back at our WR Draft history, especially during our present regimen. Andre was the #3 overall pick, and Jabar Gaffney was a 2nd rounder..........10 and 11 years ago. After that, Posey has been our top drafted receiver at #68 overall. Jacoby went #73 overall in 2007. After 12 years, you might think that the Texans could have successfully played the role of the blind squirrel and at least found one or two "nuts" that weren't their own.

dream_team 02-12-2013 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ckhouston (Post 2124812)
Until we get a legitimate QB the WR position doesn't matter and threads like this are useless ...

Until we get logical fans, message boards like this are useless ...

leebigeztx 02-13-2013 02:31 AM

Re: Texans #2 WR position
 
Why are people so afraid of a rookie wr? I mean torrey smith has been making big plays since he's come into the league. He may only catch 50 balls or so, but they eat up a lot of real estate. There will be a wr in the first staring them in the face they should take. They can help themselves by also upgrading the te position since schaub like to throw to that guy a lot. Daniels kills the offense as much as not having a #2 cuz he can't get verticle against lbs any,ore.

Norg 02-13-2013 03:45 AM

Re: Texans #2 WR position
 
i dont feel like WR is not the issuse here we got young WR CORE

Martin Posey and Jean maybe these guys get better year 2 maybe they dont

i dont see how bringing in a New rookie WR from the draft is going to help

IF u want to make a huge impact we are going to need a F/a WR superstar

I say we go Tight End instead thats more our system Tight ends

ArlingtonTexan 02-13-2013 08:08 AM

Re: Texans #2 WR position
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CretorFrigg (Post 2124790)
I just can't see how that will help the Texans' WR situation. I've never even heard of Ramses Barden or Brandon Gibson. As you said, these guys are mid to lower level WRs. We know what we're going to get from them. They're probably not going to be able to step in as the #2 WR.

And relying on another WR rookie? That's just a gamble. We need a proven, solid #2 WR who can step in immediately and contribute to the team.

Just for reference Barden is a Huge WR who has been stuck behind guys in New york. Not much overall production, but has had moments.

Gibson- caught 53 balls last year with Rams.

Both around 26, but i don't want get bogged down in names just expect to be "disappointed" with the veteran WR brought in this off-season.

--------

My post was not what I thought was optimal, but what i am expecting to happen.


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