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-   -   First four picks? (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98519)

badboy 02-07-2013 11:46 AM

First four picks?
 
I am interested in how you would used the first, second and hoped for two third round selections in 2013 draft. Positions are cool but try to identify players and why. Not interested in some guy you watched that is projected to be a 6th but you just know he will go second round. If you were picking and your job was on the line, who would you choose? I am very interested in the 'why' of your pick.

steelbtexan 02-07-2013 12:04 PM

Re: First four picks?
 
Rd.1 DaRick Rodgers -Wr Tenn Tech, Best WR in this draft IMHO
Rd. 2 Tyler Bray- QB Tenn, I've posted already that this guy is my fav QB, Tall, big arm, moves around in the pocket well. Fairly accurate, needs to improve footwork.
Rd.3 Kiko Alonso- MLB Ore, Big fast coverage LB would fit well next to Cushing/Reed. Good blitzer too.
Rd.3 Reid Fragel- OT Ohio St. Fragel is a former TE who moves well is very physical and would be a perfect fit at RT in a ZBS. He's got a mean streak.

Wolf6151 02-07-2013 09:31 PM

Re: First four picks?
 
1. Kawann Short-DT, big, strong, quick, agile, anchors very well on double teams, pressures the QB, pursues the play when it doesn't come to him, plays the run and pass equally well. He showed some fatigue in games but I think our S&C program will take care of that. I think Cody is gone in FA, Mitchell can't hold down NT by himself, and a big quick NT able to handle double teams and pressure the QB would free up Antonio and JJ to......
2. I'd trade up to the 33-38 range and take the best WR still left on the board. Quinton Patton, DeAndre Hopkins, Justin Hunter, Terrance Williams, or DaRick Rogers. It's been obvious to everyone in the world except Kubiak that we need a good #2WR and now it seems that McNair is going to take charge and do Gary's job for him again. A weapon opposite AJ will open up our offense to be much more dynamic provided Kubiak can script some new plays that teams haven't seen a thousand times already.
3. Xavier Nixon-LT, good size for the position, quickness and athleticism. Our new swing OT. I like Menelik Watson here as well but as a RT with very limited playing experience IMO he'd have a hard time as a swing OT lacking the speed for LT duties. He adds to our total depth on the O-line and I think he could also play OG if needed and might be our future at LG after Smith leaves in 2014.
3b. Assuming Brooks Reed stays at OLB, I'd take Kiko Alonso-ILB, size, speed, pass coverage, and attitude. With a NT in the 1st round ILB becomes a lesser need and the fact that this isn't a great ILB class I think there's better value in the 3rd-5th rounds. The only guy I'd want early is Ogletree and IMO ILB just isn't a 1st round need or position of much value. There a bigger impact to be made in the 1st with different positions than ILB.


That 3b spot is hard, I could easily take Alvin Bailey-OG, Darius Slay-CB, or even another WR. It's really a BPA situation at 3b. This is harder than it looks, there are so many players that I want.

mussop 02-08-2013 12:21 AM

Re: First four picks?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badboy (Post 2122328)
I am interested in how you would used the first, second and hoped for two third round selections in 2013 draft. Positions are cool but try to identify players and why. Not interested in some guy you watched that is projected to be a 6th but you just know he will go second round. If you were picking and your job was on the line, who would you choose? I am very interested in the 'why' of your pick.

Its to early in the process to risk my career on anyone but Short in the first.

skenney_11 02-08-2013 08:21 AM

Re: First four picks?
 
1. Sam Montgomery, OLB. I'd pick Montgomery with or with out Barwin being resigned. Montgomery is great against the run and uses power moves to get to the QB. Maybe he can drop 5-10 pounds to gain some quickness to have some quick, finesse moves. He also has a great motor which I like about him. Having a pass rush is key to beating these pass heavy teams. I believe that Montgomery will be the best pass rusher available at 27

2. Brandon Williams, DT. As the time to the draft comes closer, Williams' stock will only soar. He is a big guy that can fill a gap and demand a double team. This will free up another person to get to the QB since Watt will be doubled as well. I like Williams because he hardly ever gives up on the play. Having a true NT will shore up the front seven and improve the run defense.

3. Robert Lester, S. Whoever selects Lester will be one lucky team. I believe he is at least a 2nd round talent but isn't due to his lack of production. When teams were throwing at him, he was a intercepting machine. Lester will play the role of what Demps and Keo did as the S who played when Quin moved to the LB spot. I really think Lester will shine due to playing against pass heavy teams and having many opportunities to pick off QB's

3B. A.J. Klein, ILB. All picks on the defense, wow! I think the team addresses offensive needs in FA which allows for a defense heavy draft. I like Klein here to eventually start next year. I think the team beings back James just to give Klein time to learn the defense. Klein has to knack to find the football and explodes through the los. I know a ILB that can cover RB's and TE's will be great, but I really like Klein to play next to Cush on 1st and 2nd downs.

mussop 02-08-2013 09:22 AM

Re: First four picks?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by skenney_11 (Post 2122676)
1. Sam Montgomery, OLB. I'd pick Montgomery with or with out Barwin being resigned. Montgomery is great against the run and uses power moves to get to the QB. Maybe he can drop 5-10 pounds to gain some quickness to have some quick, finesse moves. He also has a great motor which I like about him. Having a pass rush is key to beating these pass heavy teams. I believe that Montgomery will be the best pass rusher available at 27

2. Brandon Williams, DT. As the time to the draft comes closer, Williams' stock will only soar. He is a big guy that can fill a gap and demand a double team. This will free up another person to get to the QB since Watt will be doubled as well. I like Williams because he hardly ever gives up on the play. Having a true NT will shore up the front seven and improve the run defense.

3. Robert Lester, S. Whoever selects Lester will be one lucky team. I believe he is at least a 2nd round talent but isn't due to his lack of production. When teams were throwing at him, he was a intercepting machine. Lester will play the role of what Demps and Keo did as the S who played when Quin moved to the LB spot. I really think Lester will shine due to playing against pass heavy teams and having many opportunities to pick off QB's

3B. A.J. Klein, ILB. All picks on the defense, wow! I think the team addresses offensive needs in FA which allows for a defense heavy draft. I like Klein here to eventually start next year. I think the team beings back James just to give Klein time to learn the defense. Klein has to knack to find the football and explodes through the los. I know a ILB that can cover RB's and TE's will be great, but I really like Klein to play next to Cush on 1st and 2nd downs.

Not the players I want but defiantly the positions I want filled.

I like Lester a lot but don't need him if we resign Quin.

Give me Short, then Thomas, then best man cover guy then kiko followed by best WR coby Hamilton! I would pass out from happiness with a draft like that.

Corrosion 02-08-2013 10:00 AM

Re: First four picks?
 
Im really torn on this , I see so many area's of need and dont think they can all be filled. I want a QB too .... but if this team is trying to win now , I believe its a luxury they cant afford as if Schaub is going to play like he did in the second half of the season , everything else is going to have to be stellar to reach the goal of a Lombardi Trophy.

I'd like to see a WR , NT , ILB , RT as well as a versatile DB for nickle and dime packages.

I'd take DaRick Rodgers and Kawann Short with the first two picks , likely have to take Short in the first.
I believe Rogers is the best WR in this draft hands down but will fall some because of off field issues.

Third round - 2012 Thorpe Award finalist , FS Phillip Thomas Fresno State. The guy is a playmaker and creates a lot of turnovers. Led the country with eight interceptions , three of wich were returned for scores and also contributed 5 forced fumbles.


Third round Comp pick - ILB Big 12 Co-Defensive Player of the Year A.J. Klein of Iowa State. He's got coverage ability and sideline to sideline speed and is a tackling machine. I think he would really compliment Cushing well inside.

Thought about Kyle Long in the third at RT but believe there could be value deeper in the draft at this spot , possibly Terron Armstead of Arkansas-Pine Bluff (6'5" 320 , 4.81 40 ) at the tail end of the 4th round.

badboy 02-08-2013 10:05 AM

Re: First four picks?
 
Thanks everyone, helpful info. Has anyone actually seen Short play Nose more than a couple plays? I, too, often project a player to a different position than he played in college but Kawaan at NT concerns me. I think his "moves" are excellent but his anchoring and legs worry me at NT. I project him to be more of a hole filler and run stopper. If that is correct, I'd rather have Brandon or Sylvester Williams a round lower & use my first elsewhere.

badboy 02-08-2013 10:21 AM

Re: First four picks?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Corrosion (Post 2122732)
Im really torn on this , I see so many area's of need and dont think they can all be filled. I want a QB too .... but if this team is trying to win now , I believe its a luxury they cant afford as if Schaub is going to play like he did in the second half of the season , everything else is going to have to be stellar to reach the goal of a Lombardi Trophy.

I'd like to see a WR , NT , ILB , RT as well as a versatile DB for nickle and dime packages.

I'd take DaRick Rodgers and Kawann Short with the first two picks , likely have to take Short in the first.
I believe Rogers is the best WR in this draft hands down but will fall some because of off field issues.

Third round - 2012 Thorpe Award finalist , FS Phillip Thomas Fresno State. The guy is a playmaker and creates a lot of turnovers. Led the country with eight interceptions , three of wich were returned for scores and also contributed 5 forced fumbles.


Third round Comp pick - ILB Big 12 Co-Defensive Player of the Year A.J. Klein of Iowa State. He's got coverage ability and sideline to sideline speed and is a tackling machine. I think he would really compliment Cushing well inside.

Thought about Kyle Long in the third at RT but believe there could be value deeper in the draft at this spot , possibly Terron Armstead of Arkansas-Pine Bluff (6'5" 320 , 4.81 40 ) at the tail end of the 4th round.

C, I like Rogers also but worried about his rep for arguing with coaches and the pot issues. I think I'd probably go with a less risky WR.

I also like Klein but a couple of you have him rated much higher than do I.

Corrosion 02-08-2013 10:48 AM

Re: First four picks?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badboy (Post 2122761)
C, I like Rogers also but worried about his rep for arguing with coaches and the pot issues. I think I'd probably go with a less risky WR.

I also like Klein but a couple of you have him rated much higher than do I.

Im going strictly on talent and ability on Rogers .... Sure , off field issues will affect his draft position but that doesnt change his talent being superior to the rest of the WR's in this draft class. As for the pot issue .... Randy Moss was (is?) a pothead too. Hell , I smoked more than my share ....


As for Klien , I think he is a mid 4th round pick at this point but that could change with a solid showing at the combine. Taking him with the 3rd round comp pick isnt much of a reach at all. Considering that his skillset (coverage and sideline to sideline ability) fits everything that this team lacks at ILB .... the difference between what amounts to an early 4th to a mid 4th is acceptable.

skenney_11 02-08-2013 01:52 PM

Re: First four picks?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Corrosion (Post 2122732)
Im really torn on this , I see so many area's of need and dont think they can all be filled. I want a QB too .... but if this team is trying to win now , I believe its a luxury they cant afford as if Schaub is going to play like he did in the second half of the season , everything else is going to have to be stellar to reach the goal of a Lombardi Trophy.

I'd like to see a WR , NT , ILB , RT as well as a versatile DB for nickle and dime packages.

I'd take DaRick Rodgers and Kawann Short with the first two picks , likely have to take Short in the first.
I believe Rogers is the best WR in this draft hands down but will fall some because of off field issues.

Third round - 2012 Thorpe Award finalist , FS Phillip Thomas Fresno State. The guy is a playmaker and creates a lot of turnovers. Led the country with eight interceptions , three of wich were returned for scores and also contributed 5 forced fumbles.


Third round Comp pick - ILB Big 12 Co-Defensive Player of the Year A.J. Klein of Iowa State. He's got coverage ability and sideline to sideline speed and is a tackling machine. I think he would really compliment Cushing well inside.

Thought about Kyle Long in the third at RT but believe there could be value deeper in the draft at this spot , possibly Terron Armstead of Arkansas-Pine Bluff (6'5" 320 , 4.81 40 ) at the tail end of the 4th round.

I like Rodgers but I just don't see the Texans drafting him. Detroit is where he belongs. CBS sports has Thomas going in the 2nd round so he probably will be gone by our 3rd round pick

steelbtexan 02-08-2013 01:54 PM

Re: First four picks?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Corrosion (Post 2122786)
Im going strictly on talent and ability on Rogers .... Sure , off field issues will affect his draft position but that doesnt change his talent being superior to the rest of the WR's in this draft class. As for the pot issue .... Randy Moss was (is?) a pothead too. Hell , I smoked more than my share ....


As for Klien , I think he is a mid 4th round pick at this point but that could change with a solid showing at the combine. Taking him with the 3rd round comp pick isnt much of a reach at all. Considering that his skillset (coverage and sideline to sideline ability) fits everything that this team lacks at ILB .... the difference between what amounts to an early 4th to a mid 4th is acceptable.

I feel the same way about Rodgers. Sometimes you gotta take a chance to become great.

Love the 3rd rd picks, how would you feel about trading a 4/5/7th rd picks to get back into the middle of the 3rd rd and taking Long? Doing this would give you 5 possible starters and fill most of the holes except the biggest one. (QB)

Check out Duke Williams, he's a faster version of Thomas and does many of the same things.

badboy 02-08-2013 02:36 PM

Re: First four picks?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by steelbtexan (Post 2122885)
I feel the same way about Rodgers. Sometimes you gotta take a chance to become great.

Love the 3rd rd picks, how would you feel about trading a 4/5/7th rd picks to get back into the middle of the 3rd rd and taking Long? Doing this would give you 5 possible starters and fill most of the holes except the biggest one. (QB)

Check out Duke Williams, he's a faster version of Thomas and does many of the same things.

Long will be almost 25 by game one and his off field history should be looked at as should Da'Rick Rogers.

Corrosion 02-08-2013 06:08 PM

Re: First four picks?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by skenney_11 (Post 2122882)
I like Rodgers but I just don't see the Texans drafting him. Detroit is where he belongs. CBS sports has Thomas going in the 2nd round so he probably will be gone by our 3rd round pick

The question wasnt who do you think the Texans will pick .... but Who would YOU pick.



Quote:

Originally Posted by badboy (Post 2122328)
If you were picking and your job was on the line, who would you choose? I am very interested in the 'why' of your pick.

I believe Rogers is hands down the best WR in this draft and by a large margin - I would roll the dice despite those off field issues.

While the likleyhood of the Texans picking Rogers may be slim , I could see a couple situations where they would make the selection.


As for Thomas , different sites have him rated allover the place from a 2-3 to as low as a late 4th.
Considering its pre-combine , for all intents and purposes we are just throwing sh!t at the wall to see what sticks. Post combine things should be a bit more clear and we'll all be adjusting our ratings .... and there is always the option to move up for a player you really like. Thomas would be one I would strongly consider moving up to get.


Quote:

Originally Posted by steelbtexan (Post 2122885)
I feel the same way about Rodgers. Sometimes you gotta take a chance to become great.

Love the 3rd rd picks, how would you feel about trading a 4/5/7th rd picks to get back into the middle of the 3rd rd and taking Long? Doing this would give you 5 possible starters and fill most of the holes except the biggest one. (QB)

Check out Duke Williams, he's a faster version of Thomas and does many of the same things.

If he was still on the board in the 3rd round , I would strongly consider moving those 4-5 and 7th round picks to get him as I have Armstead in the 4th with the idea of him at RT .... but it looks like Long has moved into the second round according to most.
While I think Long's going to be a really good RT in the NFL and had mocked him to the Texans in the second in my last mock ..... Im not willing to sacrafice the WR and NT spots for him that early as I dont see him starting from day one at RT as he's played most of his college career at OG and thats a pretty big transition.

I wouldnt argue against taking Williams in round 5 or 6 .... Most have him locked in at a 6th round selection right now. If I wasnt able to land Thomas , he might be my prime target in that part of the draft.

powda 02-08-2013 06:35 PM

Re: First four picks?
 
1. Dt
2. Ilb
3a. Qb
3b. Wr

(Bonus 4th round position projection for a limited time only!)

4. S

mussop 02-08-2013 08:24 PM

Re: First four picks?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badboy (Post 2122739)
Thanks everyone, helpful info. Has anyone actually seen Short play Nose more than a couple plays? I, too, often project a player to a different position than he played in college but Kawaan at NT concerns me. I think his "moves" are excellent but his anchoring and legs worry me at NT. I project him to be more of a hole filler and run stopper. If that is correct, I'd rather have Brandon or Sylvester Williams a round lower & use my first elsewhere.

Don't see any problem with him playing nose in wades system. He is bigger, faster and 10x more talented than Cody has ever been. I think you are getting to wrapped up in labels.

Corrosion 02-08-2013 10:35 PM

Re: First four picks?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badboy (Post 2122739)
Thanks everyone, helpful info. Has anyone actually seen Short play Nose more than a couple plays? I, too, often project a player to a different position than he played in college but Kawaan at NT concerns me. I think his "moves" are excellent but his anchoring and legs worry me at NT. I project him to be more of a hole filler and run stopper. If that is correct, I'd rather have Brandon or Sylvester Williams a round lower & use my first elsewhere.

On Short .... He's not going to be asked to anchor in this defense. He's going to be asked to penetrate. You can throw out the typical 3-4 NT stereotype.

I wasnt sold on him earlier .... but I think he would be a great fit and maybe a three down guy.

badboy 02-09-2013 10:53 AM

Re: First four picks?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mussop (Post 2123104)
Don't see any problem with him playing nose in wades system. He is bigger, faster and 10x more talented than Cody has ever been. I think you are getting to wrapped up in labels.

Not arguing but trying to get better feel for Short. He is not actually bigger. 6'3" 308 and Cody 6'4" 301 (my understanding played at about 305). Definitely faster but at two different positions & that is my concern; does Short speed come into play if double teamed at the Nose? If we are getting basically a plugger, why not get same at lower round? He is better than Cody but how much better (1st versus 2nd round) than Brandon Williams or Sylvester?

mussop 02-09-2013 11:29 AM

Re: First four picks?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badboy (Post 2123233)
Not arguing but trying to get better feel for Short. He is not actually bigger. 6'3" 308 and Cody 6'4" 301 (my understanding played at about 305). Definitely faster but at two different positions & that is my concern; does Short speed come into play if double teamed at the Nose? If we are getting basically a plugger, why not get same at lower round? He is better than Cody but how much better (1st versus 2nd round) than Brandon Williams or Sylvester?

Short is anything but a "plugger". The best one word description of him would be, penetrator. He reminds me alot of Mitchell when he was coming out except that he has a way better anchor.

Purdue DT Kawann Short posted three tackles in the Senior Bowl, and was consistently penetrating the backfield. However, some NFL scouts have their concerns about Short despite what appears to be immense talent. "He doesn't play as hard as you would like, not regularly," the scout said. "Now, there in the Senior Bowl, he played his ass off. Why did he play hard? Maybe it goes back to mentality. Are you that guy? You are rolling the dice with this kid but let me tell you, he is talented, real talented. He can play defensive end in a 3-4 and he can play three technique or nose in a 4-3. Not many guys you can make that statement about."

Read more: http://www.kffl.com/player/27690/nfl/kawann-short#ixzz2KQL4x9ma

I disagree with him not playing hard. At least I didn't see that in games I watched. Oh and by the way, he weighed in at 315 lbs at the senior bowl.

"He is better than Cody but how much better (1st versus 2nd round) than Brandon Williams or Sylvester?"

IMO alot better. Especially at getting pressure on the QB. In that sense there is no comparison.

beerlover 02-09-2013 11:32 AM

Re: First four picks?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badboy (Post 2123233)
Not arguing but trying to get better feel for Short. He is not actually bigger. 6'3" 308 and Cody 6'4" 301 (my understanding played at about 305). Definitely faster but at two different positions & that is my concern; does Short speed come into play if double teamed at the Nose? If we are getting basically a plugger, why not get same at lower round? He is better than Cody but how much better (1st versus 2nd round) than Brandon Williams or Sylvester?

Short is a fast twitch type of prospect. every position has them. to find that in a 300 pounder + with those type of movement skills will drive his draft stock higher. Senior Bowl measurements 6'3" 315. He could also play DE in the 3-4. This versatility to play multiple positions as a front line starter should all but lock his grade into 1st. Grade = Value = Need = Slot = #27. :barman:


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