Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com

Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/index.php)
-   Texans Talk (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=56)
-   -   Addressing the ILB position (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98399)

thunderkyss 02-02-2013 01:22 PM

Addressing the ILB position
 
I think this is a very important issue that needs to be addressed & I'm very curious to see how this organization handles it. We've got options & we've talked about them in other threads, but I wanted to bring it all into one thread (If I were a mod, I'd merge them all here, but I'm not).

So, we're getting Cushing back.
That instantly upgrades the position.There are the obvious questions about his capacity to play to the level we've come to expect. Whether you're optimistic about the situation or not, the prudent thing to do would be to hope for the best, prepare for the worst. I'm not confident that our F.O. will handle this correctly, but I don't know what would be the "correct" way to address it. But heaven forbid we find ourselves in the same situation & struggle as badly trying to field 2 (not one) 2 ILBs.
Barrett Ruud
He'll be 30. I think he played well.... as well as Ray Maualuga in coverage. I would have liked to have seen him if he would have started with us through camp. I'm not advocating he makes the 53 right now, but I'd like to see him in the mix (with Sharpton, Dobbins & Reed) competing for a spot.
Draft
I've seen a few mocks suggest the Texans should use #27 on an ILB. And that's fine. But the way I look at the draft, anything less than a third rounder is a pipe dream & really more future oriented. We need help right now at WR, ILB, & OLB.... Plus I'd be extremely happy if we take a RT in the first three rounds (not a serious need, but it would say we are serious about getting better in the trenches). I think the Draft would be the least expensive way to address the position, but also the longest shot.
FA
This will probably be the most expensive path. I'm not too sure who all the FAs will be, but reading PFF from one of Playoffs links,
Quote:

Brad Jones, ILB, Green Bay Packers

The Packers lost one of their defensive leaders for the season when Desmond Bishop tore his hamstring in their first preseason game. Bishop’s play was a bit unbalanced in 2011. His 10.9% Run Stop and 11.5 Pass Rushing Productivity were both excellent marks, and his 17.6 Combined Tackle Efficiency was one of the highest in the league for his position. Yet he was torched in coverage — the 568 yards he surrendered were the third-most allowed by any inside linebacker. D.J. Smith proved to be a capable but inconsistent replacement before suffering his own knee injury in Week 6. Brad Jones was thrust into the starting lineup in his place and grabbed the opportunity by the horns. His +8.9 grade this season was the 10th-highest for an inside linebacker, and his 9.2% Run Stop was solid. More importantly, he surrendered just 273 yards in coverage, helping to shore up a pass defense that was much-improved this season. He was an integral part of the Packers’ playoff push, recording 21 tackles and 12 run stops in the final three weeks of the regular season
. With his contract expiring, the 26-year-old Jones now ranks as one of our top inside linebackers available in free agency.
I don't know that our situation warrants this kind of an investment, especially with the way we go to nickel & dime so often. But it would be interesting.
Trade
Ok, this is the one I really wanted to discuss. Reading the above snippet from PFF it appears the Packers may be ILB heavy, especially if they keep Brad Jones. So I don't know how to initiate a trade, obviously Rick Smith doesn't either, but I would imagine it would start with trying to identify what that other team needs and what I'm willing to give up. But with Desmond Bishop & DJ Smith coming off injury, would you consider sending signals to the Greenbay Packers?


If not the Packers, do you see another franchise that might be open to the idea of trading a "decent" ILB?

Vinny 02-02-2013 01:49 PM

Re: Addressing the ILB position
 
You can find stud inside linebackers from the second round to the 4th. Stud ILB Daryl Washington (Cards) was the 47th pick of the draft and was a second round pick. James Laurinaitis was a second rounder, Sean Lee was the 55th overall, The Panther's Dan Connor was a third rounder (74th), Bowman - 91st overall pick...We could have taken him instead of project Earl Mitchell. Instead we take the project and then select an inferior prospect in Sharpton right after Bowman. That's just nit-picking though.

Vance87 02-02-2013 01:51 PM

Re: Addressing the ILB position
 
You say Ruud covered as well as Malauga? Ouch. That's a burn

bckey 02-02-2013 02:20 PM

Re: Addressing the ILB position
 
Here are 3 free agents I wouldn't mind seeing in a Texans uniform:

Rey Maualuga MLB-reuniting with Cushing could benefit him and the Texans

Richard Seymour DT-33 years old but can still play and he has playoff and superbowl experience.

Dwayne Bowe WR-good receiver that has had terrible qbs throwing to him.

As far as trading for an ILB maybe a team switching from a 3-4 to a 4-3 defense would be interested. The Cowboys are rumored to be switching.

thunderkyss 02-02-2013 02:22 PM

Re: Addressing the ILB position
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vance87 (Post 2119577)
You say Ruud covered as well as Malauga? Ouch. That's a burn

He covered Vareen on three attempts, only that last one went for a TD. Looked like he made a mental error on that play & if they were to line up like that again, I bet more than likely it would have gone our way.

He was also lined up against Gronk on an island.... forced him out of bounds on the play Gronk got injured. That's pretty good stuff from a LB to understand & use the sideline like that.

He had been in several other passing situations throughout the season, only giving up 1 other catch that I can remember.

Again, not saying that he's the answer, I don't even know if he could play full time. Just saying he should be in the mix come time for training camp.

Vance87 02-02-2013 02:49 PM

Re: Addressing the ILB position
 
My point was Malauga is one of the worst ILB's at covering in the entire NFL

thunderkyss 02-02-2013 03:16 PM

Re: Addressing the ILB position
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vance87 (Post 2119588)
My point was Malauga is one of the worst ILB's at covering in the entire NFL

I get you. But for some reason there are some here that would like us to spend FA dollars on Maualuga.

76Texan 02-02-2013 05:34 PM

Re: Addressing the ILB position
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny (Post 2119576)
You can find stud inside linebackers from the second round to the 4th. Stud ILB Daryl Washington (Cards) was the 47th pick of the draft and was a second round pick. James Laurinaitis was a second rounder, Sean Lee was the 55th overall, The Panther's Dan Connor was a third rounder (74th), Bowman - 91st overall pick...We could have taken him instead of project Earl Mitchell. Instead we take the project and then select an inferior prospect in Sharpton right after Bowman. That's just nit-picking though.

Well, we all had good suggestions here and there during draft time, but it's not easy to hit on all the picks.

I can understand them not going for a LB earlier that year since we had Cushing and Ryans.

Then there's the matter that plenty of picks that went before Mitchell and Sharpton are either no longer in the NFL or barely did anything.

Note: At the time, I also said that I think those guys were drafted a bit too early.
I saw Mitchell as a rotational guy that only has a small chance of becoming a starter, and Sharpton as a project. (I had them both a round later (or at most half around later.) Again, nobody is going to hit on them all.

It's more about the overall consistency, and I think they did at least an average job building the roster.

htowntexans1985 02-02-2013 05:34 PM

Re: Addressing the ILB position
 
From Mcnairs comments we are going to work on our weak spots through the draft. We Just dont have the cap room to take on any f.a. vets at the moment. Unless they take the bare minimum. I do hope we let go of Bradie James and get more speed at Ilb. The drop off from Cushing to the rest of the lb corps is just too damaging to the rest of our Defense. Their has to be a gem in the draft with that high motor and intensity

thunderkyss 02-02-2013 06:16 PM

Re: Addressing the ILB position
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 76Texan (Post 2119652)
Note: At the time, I also said that I think those guys were drafted a bit too early.
I saw Mitchell as a rotational guy that only has a small chance of becoming a starter, and Sharpton as a project. (I had them both a round later (or at most half around later.) Again, nobody is going to hit on them all.

It's more about the overall consistency, and I think they did at least an average job building the roster.

It's really hard to judge Mitchell. I've seen flashes of what I'd like to see out of the position, but being that Cody is still starting I have to believe that what we are seeing from Cody is what they want. With that in mind I don't see a huge drop-off & wouldn't be surprised if they didn't try too hard to keep Cody when that time comes.

I think Sharpton is a stud. Just can't stay on the field. Maybe he'll be that guy next year, but we don't need to be sitting around waiting for it to happen. He didn't make it out of camp healthy in 2012...

If you (or anyone) thinks we can get what we're looking for in the 3rd or 4th round, great. I hope you're right, but I think we need someone to start day 1 & we're not going to find that (I think) in the 3rd or 4th. It happens, I know it does, Just not a gamble I think we can afford.

Insideop 02-02-2013 08:56 PM

Re: Addressing the ILB position
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny (Post 2119576)
You can find stud inside linebackers from the second round to the 4th. Stud ILB Daryl Washington (Cards) was the 47th pick of the draft and was a second round pick. James Laurinaitis was a second rounder, Sean Lee was the 55th overall, The Panther's Dan Connor was a third rounder (74th), Bowman - 91st overall pick...We could have taken him instead of project Earl Mitchell. Instead we take the project and then select an inferior prospect in Sharpton right after Bowman. That's just nit-picking though.

Problem is, the ILB class this year is considered to be weak. Ogletree is rated the best and should be gone when the Texans pick. Minter, and maybe Te'o, will probably be there at #27 and should get consideration. After that things start to thin out. Bostic from Florida, Alonso from Oregon, or Klein from Iowa State could be good finds in the mid rounds but that's about it. There are no real stars like Cushing or Willis this year unless you count Te'o, who's really fallen off since the National Championship game.

thunderkyss 02-02-2013 09:45 PM

Re: Addressing the ILB position
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Insideop (Post 2119729)
There are no real stars like Cushing or Willis this year unless you count Te'o, who's really fallen off since the National Championship game.

Yeah..... getting trucked on PrimeTime TV & having your love life unravel on Dr. Phil can do that to a player.

badboy 02-02-2013 09:58 PM

Re: Addressing the ILB position
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Insideop (Post 2119729)
Problem is, the ILB class this year is considered to be weak. Ogletree is rated the best and should be gone when the Texans pick. Minter, and maybe Te'o, will probably be there at #27 and should get consideration. After that things start to thin out. Bostic from Florida, Alonso from Oregon, or Klein from Iowa State could be good finds in the mid rounds but that's about it. There are no real stars like Cushing or Willis this year unless you count Te'o, who's really fallen off since the National Championship game.

A fake girlfriend that we now know Te'o had nothing to do with, I'm thinking if he is there select him. Starts day one as pefect MLB. 113 tackles 7 INTs and IIRc 2 sacks.

Wolf6151 02-03-2013 05:52 AM

Re: Addressing the ILB position
 
I also like what I saw in Barrett Ruud late in the season and playoffs and I'm not sure if he makes the team next season, but he should at least make training camp. I also liked Dobbins for a depth position and think he should be in TC as well.

In the draft I like Ogletree the best but he might be gone by our pick and I honestly don't like the idea of an ILB in the 1st round, seems like a wasted pick, because there's better value in the mid rounds. I think we can find a good depth guy in the 4th or 5th round. I like AJ Klein for his pass coverage ability, and Alonso wouldn't be bad either. Reddick and Nico Johnson are other options that I think are raw but athletic and could be possibilities. As for Te'o, hell NO. I don't want all the drama that will surround this guy and don't think he's all that great.

As for a trade or FA, I don't think we have the money to be chasing any FA's this year at least no one good. I don't see Smith using a trade for ILB.

SteveSlaton20 02-03-2013 09:00 AM

Re: Addressing the ILB position
 
our biggest issue imo

i have faith that cushing will come back strong next year, but i dont see anyone else that we have is worth starting next to cush.

i havent watched a lot of films, but from what i've seen, i like kevin minter over alec ogletree. not that interested in te'o, especially with his drama recently.

Lucky 02-03-2013 11:21 AM

Re: Addressing the ILB position
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Insideop (Post 2119729)
Problem is, the ILB class this year is considered to be weak. Ogletree is rated the best and should be gone when the Texans pick. Minter, and maybe Te'o, will probably be there at #27 and should get consideration. After that things start to thin out.

What you're not taking into consideration is that NFL teams will look at college OLBs and project them to ILB. Two that Vinny mentioned (Bowman and Sean Lee) played OLB at Penn State. Connor played both positions at Penn State. In fact, there is a OLB from Penn State in this draft, Gerald Hodges, that might project inside in the Texans defense. So while the draft gurus may see this year's ILB crop as thin, NFL teams may be looking at players the gurus aren't considering.

WolverineFan 02-03-2013 11:50 AM

Re: Addressing the ILB position
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky (Post 2119891)
What you're not taking into consideration is that NFL teams will look at college OLBs and project them to ILB. Two that Vinny mentioned (Bowman and Sean Lee) played OLB at Penn State. Connor played both positions at Penn State. In fact, there is a OLB from Penn State in this draft, Gerald Hodges, that might project inside in the Texans defense. So while the draft gurus may see this year's ILB crop as thin, NFL teams may be looking at players the gurus aren't considering.

Hodges is actually the guy I want to target in the 3rd round at ILB. I'd like to avoid taking an eventual two-down player in the 1st round but if Minter from LSU is there it's hard to say no.

mussop 02-03-2013 11:56 AM

Re: Addressing the ILB position
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky (Post 2119891)
What you're not taking into consideration is that NFL teams will look at college OLBs and project them to ILB. Two that Vinny mentioned (Bowman and Sean Lee) played OLB at Penn State. Connor played both positions at Penn State. In fact, there is a OLB from Penn State in this draft, Gerald Hodges, that might project inside in the Texans defense. So while the draft gurus may see this year's ILB crop as thin, NFL teams may be looking at players the gurus aren't considering.

And I would add chase Thomas to that list but at the very least its probably going to take a trade up in the second to get either.

thunderkyss 02-03-2013 12:23 PM

Re: Addressing the ILB position
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by WolverineFan (Post 2119906)
Hodges is actually the guy I want to target in the 3rd round at ILB. I'd like to avoid taking an eventual two-down player in the 1st round but if Minter from LSU is there it's hard to say no.

I want to get better. I want to take the best player available at 27 who can help this team get better. I'd consider moving up in the draft to get the guy we need to take this team to the next level.

I don't want to be looking for someone who is good, but not as good as Cushing. If Cushing gets hurt again, or if he has a "year after pregnancy" season again, I don't want our best option to be Daryl Sharpton.

If we get a guy who is better than Cushing (which is very unlikely) that'll keep Quin playing safety & Demps on the bench. We'll stay in our base defense more often than we do now.

mussop 02-03-2013 01:02 PM

Re: Addressing the ILB position
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderkyss (Post 2119607)
I get you. But for some reason there are some here that would like us to spend FA dollars on Maualuga.

Well those people need to watch some of his games since he was drafted. He is horrible in coverage and I would say less talented than what we currently have at ILB in James or Dobbins.

Also I would say that DT and ILB are our biggest needs right now. Followed by OT and then WR. Anyone who thinks replacing Walter over Cody is more important isn't thinking things through. Walter might not be the best number two WR out there but as far as performance goes he is heads and shoulders better than Cody.

Cody should at the very best should be a backup that only sees the field to give the starter a blow. He was pushed around like he was on roller skates all year and that is saying something when you consider he played with the DPOY to his left and arguably a top 5 five tech in Smith to his right.


Cody
2010 38 tackles
2011 23 tackles
2012 17 tackles

He's on the wrong side of 30 and his numbers are trending down. So what should we expect next year, 10, 11 tackles? Are those starting DT numbers?

How can anyone think that Schaub's 3rd or really in most cases 4th option on passing downs is more important than our starting NT is beyond me.

And so I don't totally derail this good thread lets talk ILB. Cushing is coming off a season ending injury and plays with the kind of reckless abandonment that could land him right back there at any time. Other than him we literally have NO one that should be a starter at either inside position. No way in hell we wait until late in the draft for help there. We need a quality starter and depth there.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:32 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger